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1995 tiger river manora not heating


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My 95 tiger river manora quit heating. It would stay warm, approximately 90 deg. or so but not get up to the set temperature. I replaced the hi and low thermistors with no affect. While checking things further inside I found what looks like an anti backflow check valve that had cracked and was obviously leaking. There was hard water deposits all over it and the hose clamps. Removed it and it was definitely broken. Would this cause the spa to quit heating up?

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3 hours ago, cmarr6 said:

My 95 tiger river manora quit heating. It would stay warm, approximately 90 deg. or so but not get up to the set temperature. I replaced the hi and low thermistors with no affect. While checking things further inside I found what looks like an anti backflow check valve that had cracked and was obviously leaking. There was hard water deposits all over it and the hose clamps. Removed it and it was definitely broken. Would this cause the spa to quit heating up?

That is the flow switch or pressure switch. It can technically be bypassed but then you’re relying solely on your thermistors to ensure the heater/spa does not encounter protection mode or an overheat condition.
 

There should be a third connection point just under the thermistors on the side of the control box. That is of you really do have a 1995 as that was the first year of the externally connected thermistors. If your spa is older things are different.

Assuming you don’t have a proper HotSpring PS jumper, you can cut the old wire from the PS sensor, cut back some of the grey insulation to expose the two wires inside, and splice those two wires together, effectively bypassing the leaking switch.

If you don’t have any damaged relays internally and the heater is okay as well as proper water circulation it should start to heat. 

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8 minutes ago, cmarr6 said:

No, there is absolutely no electrical connection to this valve. Simply a mechanical backflow preventer. I will post a pic if I can figure out how.51SY2I1AQCL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Oh well that's a basic 3/4" water check valve.  Hotspring part number 35233.  The arrow needs to point towards the small circulation pump.  If the system wasn't fully pressurized depending on the severity of this part leaking, I could see that making a pressure switch open and the heating stop.

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Yes, it was a significant break. I tried to post the pic but couldn't get it done. It cracked about halfway around where the spigot meets the housing. I'm pretty sure it was allowing a lot of air into the system. Hopefully that is what caused it. Ordered a new one. will see when I get it and get the tub put back together.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay, got the part and installed. Problem now is, where do the thermistors connect to the box? When i took it apart, I thought they were dedicated plugs and could only fit on connector. Turns out they are exactly the same and I don't remember which one goes where?

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I'm assuming "limit" mean high limit thermistor???? Not sure what "control" means but I found a pic of the high limit control circuit board online. I'm figuring the "limit" thermistor plug into this circuit board??????

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Are all of the question marks supposed to indicate frustration..?

Anyways, they plug in directly above the pressure switch which is on the left hand side of the metal control box.  If you have the correct style thermistors they will plug in to the correct female openings.  They only go in one way and they cannot be mixed up if you have the correct ones.  You need 38415 & 38416 thermistors.

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Not frustration, just questions. And my stupidity!!!! I replaced the thermistors thinking that was the problem. I replaced them with Part #'s 78969 and 78970 because that is what I found online to use. I have a replacement heater in it too, a hot springs 4K no fault I believe, I can't remember for sure. Those were the part #'s I found to use with this heater. They both have the exact same plug and will fit it either plug in the control board. As are the old thermistors which I still have. They are not unique and will fit in either plug. I'm hoping i hooked it up right. As I said, I found a pic of the High limit board on line and them looked inside the control box and found the high limit board and plugged in the one labeled "limit", as you can see in the picture, into that plug. Is that correct? Does the label "limit" on the heater mean "high limit thermistor"????? and what does the label "control" mean? I have the tub filled and turned on and HOPEFULLY heating up. Seems to be working good. Won't know until the morning when I can check the temperature.

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the only tags on the parts are QT2025 and QT2103. I don't remember which one came out of which bag. It says on the packaging slip 78969 replaces #38416 and 78970 replaces #38415. 78696 is the high limit, but I don't know which one came out of that bag. I google the QT numbers, but couldn't find anything.

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Did find some info about the QT numbers but didn't help me any more that the part numbers. Still don't know which one goes in which plug. As i said they are both exactly alike and can plug into either plug on the control box. My only indication is the "limit" tag on the heater. Hopefully that means "high limit"? That is the way I connected it. 

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Okay, remember I mentioned my stupidity!!!!! Turns out they WILL NOT go into either plug. I just didn't insert them completely. If you look closely at the terminals inside the plugs, you will see a male and a female terminal. I just didn't push them all the way in to engage with the terminals in the control box. So thought they would fit both plugs. NO. If you try to push them all the way in, they will not go into either one as one is male and one is female!!!!! Sorry, I'm an idiot! But on the bright side, I am confident i now have it hooked up correctly. Will wait and see if it heats up completely and this repair works. Or if there is something else causing the no heat condition. Thanks for your time. Hope I have a HOT tub in the morning.!!!!!

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checked it this morning and still ice cold. No heat at all now. Felt the heater and does not feel warm at all, like it use to. It felt warm to the touch, just wouldn't heat past about 90 degrees or so. Everything appears to be working, all indicator lights on, can hear the relay kick in when turning the temperature dial up. Where and how do I start checking for the cause? 

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Unplug the heater from the control box

Turn your thermostat all the way up to make sure it’s calling for heat

Test for AC voltage at the control box where you unplugged the heater. You want ~120 or so

 

You may need to consider looking for a local qualified technician to save yourself the hassle, we do this daily.

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I live out in the boonies and do not have any spa techs anywhere near. I think Omaha would be the closest and that is an hour away. I have been poking around with a meter and I cannot get any voltage to the heater plug. It is a 110 volt tub and so I think the way it works, when you turn the jet pump on, it uses the voltage for the jet pump and turns off the heater. The number 5 relay seems to run the jets, i can hear and feel it clicking when i turn on the jets. The number 4 relay runs the heater. The voltage goes to #5 and them a wire comes from #5 to #4 to supply voltage when the jets are off. I do have voltage running to the #5 relay but I get nothing coming out to go to the #4 relay when I turn off the jets. Am i to figure my #5 relay is bad?

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found one, but want to verify old relay first. they are not cheap, so would prefer to check integrity of old relay first. I am an auto mechanic so pretty familiar with relay operation, but these are a little strange. How should I go about verifying proper function of these relays? 

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Just another question that is confusing me. What purpose is the white wire? It has NO voltage coming in and does not register voltage anywhere at any of the terminals at any time? I thought maybe one of the relays would activate it in certain conditions but I can detect no voltage on any of the white wires at any time. It is a 110/120 tub so I don't think the white wire is even carrying voltage into the box! Could I use that wire and turn my tub into a 220 volt tub and use the white wire as dedicated voltage to the heater instead of relying on the relay to power it? Or am i f-ing crazy?

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So, not trying to be rude but I am bowing out here. I put safety first when I train new technicians and we haven’t had anyone sustain injury yet at my company.
 

It’s somewhat concerning to me that you are pondering a voltage increase to 220 volts when you are simultaneously unsure of the function of the ‘white wire’. There are several white wires. Your DIY tinkering, while admirable, is now sort of all over the place. Your troubleshooting is aimless at this point. A professional needs to step in on site. Again, not trying to be rude but I cannot in good conscience continue to provide aid remotely with your safety in limbo. Bear in mind the spa you’re trying to diagnose electrically is also still full of water, a dangerous combination. And please keep in mind I stumbled upon this forum a few weeks ago, providing my career’s worth of expertise with the best of intentions, but also totally for free.

Best of luck and be safe. 

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Thanks for your help. I would certainly not do anything that would jeopardize my safety. I am simply asking questions. That's why I asked. The white wire coming in simply has no voltage to it at any time. I have recreated all the operational conditions i can, except of course, the heater operating, and there is NO voltage there at any time. I did have an electrician look at it a few years ago and he told me that could be done. To change it to a 220 volt so the heater is running even when the jets are on. But he did not look inside the box and give me any details about how it would be done. Maybe I will get in contact with him again and have him look at it while it is apart. But I have to spa technicians anywhere close. I reiterate my original question that is primary, sorry if I am asking too many questions, just riffing here. But back to my original question if you could just answer that. Believe me, I WILL NOT go forward with any modifications unless I am very certain it is safe. I want to return it to original operating conditions if at all possible. I cannot get voltage from relay #5 to relay #4 when the jets turn off. Is that the way this thing is supposed to operate and does this mean that relay #5 is defective? I appreciate any help you can give me, I am not crazy and intend to put myself or anyone else into danger. 

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I am not doing aimless troubleshooting, the only thing I have done is tested the heater outlet as you told me to. I was not getting voltage to the plug so opened the box to see where the voltage comes from to the plug. It comes from relay #4 that is in turn fed through relay #5 when the jets turn off i believe. That is as far as I've gone. So that is the question I asked. Was I correct in assuming that is the correct operation and If I cannot get voltage from #5 to #4, is the relay bad? I did look at the wiring inside to kind of map out the voltage pathway to understand the operation. I saw the white wires going from relay to relay so assumed there should be some function of the white wires. Tested the white wire coming into the box and got no voltage. Thats all, I am NOT planning on doing anything more until I get an answer to that question. I'm sorry if I asked too many stupid questions, I was just studying the inside of the box trying to understand the operations and my mind got to wondering. 

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