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What am I doing Wrong?


MnBdub1981

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My first hot tub and at least at the moment I'm having some serious buyers remorse because I absolutely cannot balance the pH and Alkalinity and have literally spent days trying to do it. I'm using sodium bisulfate to lower the pH and Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the Alkalinity. Put in fresh filtered water and the pH was 8.5 and ALK was 98. Bumped the ALK up to 110 and then really took a long time to get the pH to 7.5. I was adding about 1/2 oz at a time and running the pumps for 30 min each time with cover open. I was relieved to finally get the pH to 7.5 and checked the ALK. The AlK was 70 and Master Spa recommends 100 - 120 ppm when using Dichlor so I bumped the ALK back up to 120 with Sodium Bicarbonate. Struggled again all day adding 1/2 oz pH down and waiting for it to mix and testing once in a while. At every test the ALK was dropping like a rock and the pH was hardly moving. Now my ALK is back down to 80 and my pH is still above 8. I "think" I completely understand how to do this but I must be doing something wrong or there is something wrong with the pH down chemical or something else? Has anyone else experienced this or am I possibly on Candid Camera?

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Read the threads in the water chemistry section. @waterbearexplains it in great detail numerous times. 

Short version (if you don't want the doctorate degree in water chemistry) is balnce your ph and let us know if your alkalinity is below 50.

We recommend ahhsome spa purge on any new spa.

Read the sticky thread on the dichlor/bleach method. Get a good test kit.

What brand? Does it have any extras (ozone, uv, salt cell, smartchlor, spa frog, etc...)?

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Thank you, I will read the threads by @waterbear

I can definitely get my pH in range and alkalinity above 50. I did read that ALK will follow pH?

I will put a note in my tub file to use ahhsome on my next fill. I did fill it, drain it and refill because I heard there could be some antifreeze in the lines. 

New to this site. What do you mean by sticky thread?

Master Spas Twilight model 7.25, 305 gallon capacity. Its does have ozone and EcoPur Charge. 

Do you have an opinion on Spa Marvel?

Glad I stumbled upon this Forum. Thanks

 

 

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10 hours ago, MnBdub1981 said:

I did read that ALK will follow pH?

It is the other way around.  You set your ALK to a level that will help keep your pH in the desired range.  A low ALK will usually result in low pH.

A low ALK is often preferable for those using the dichlor then bleach sanitization method so that pH does not rise too high or too quickly. Bleach has a very high pH so it will cause pH to rise over time if not managed.

If you are using strictly dichlor, which is slightly acidic or bromine, you might want your ALK to be a bit higher so that the water resists the pH going too low.

One other thing, you didnt mention is how you are testing the water.  If using test strips, you will have a hard time balancing the water.  A liquid test kit, such as the taylor k-2006 is worth its wait in gold and will help you immensely.  

Good luck.

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2 hours ago, dashmer said:

It is the other way around.  You set your ALK to a level that will help keep your pH in the desired range.  A low ALK will usually result in low pH.

A low ALK is often preferable for those using the dichlor then bleach sanitization method so that pH does not rise too high or too quickly. Bleach has a very high pH so it will cause pH to rise over time if not managed.

If you are using strictly dichlor, which is slightly acidic or bromine, you might want your ALK to be a bit higher so that the water resists the pH going too low.

One other thing, you didnt mention is how you are testing the water.  If using test strips, you will have a hard time balancing the water.  A liquid test kit, such as the taylor k-2006 is worth its wait in gold and will help you immensely.  

Good luck.

This ALK & pH relationship gets a little confusing.

I agree completely on the test strips. I have a long way to go but getting the taylor test kit was a game changer. I emailed taylor and they recommended the k-1005 for me.  

 

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17 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Read the threads in the water chemistry section. @waterbearexplains it in great detail numerous times. 

Short version (if you don't want the doctorate degree in water chemistry) is balnce your ph and let us know if your alkalinity is below 50.

We recommend ahhsome spa purge on any new spa.

Read the sticky thread on the dichlor/bleach method. Get a good test kit.

What brand? Does it have any extras (ozone, uv, salt cell, smartchlor, spa frog, etc...)?

RDspaguy, I'm learning how to use this site and clicked on Reply instead of Quote so my response to you is below. 

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If you use only dichlor you will overstabilize the water because every 10 ppm of chlorine added by dichlor it also add 6 ppm of CYA.

Are you using any type of spa stick or mineral cartridge? These add silver to the water and supposedly allow a lower FC level but in reality they don't since silver has very slow kill times and is ineffective against viruses.

If you are going to use chlorine I strongly recommend the dichlor/bleach method to prevent overstabilization.

Read these and then post any questions you might have in a new thread:

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53108-some-truths-on-bleach-dosing/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53410-how-to-use-bromine-3-step-method/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/

Get a GOOD test kit (Taylor K-2006 is worth every penny! I would not get the K-1005 because it uses the DPD testing method, as does the K-2005, and it uses the small comparator. The K-2006 uses the FAS-DPD testing method which does not suffer from bleachout and has a much wider range without having to dilute the sample.)

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