sktyrhrtout Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Hi, I've inherited a Keys Backyard Spa and I'm working on troubleshooting the heater issue. It looks like Keys was an old Costco or big box store brand that went out of business in 2008 so there's not much info from them. The pack however is a Balboa VS500Z. When turning the spa on and raising the temp to call for heat the pump turns on and circulates water. It seems like it goes through a few checks and then the light underneath the temp panel goes on. I check voltage at the heater and there is no voltage. With the power off at the breaker I did the resistance checks per this video and they all checked out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_hdXYHzrdE If I have no voltage at heater terminal when the control panel is calling for heat I need to go back to the next item in line but I can't seem to find what that is. I see some mentions about pressure switches and flow issues preventing the heater from being turned on but I can't find anything about how to test those or where to find them on the circuit board. Here's a few photos of the spa pack: https://imgur.com/a/tNdgkFO Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Balboa M7 Technology does not use a pressure switch or flow switch. The 2 sensors one one each end of the heater tube detect flow and temp. Disconnect the copper tabs from the heater element and lift them up so they don't touch anything and then test for 240V at the copper tabs. If you get 240V when the heat light is solid and not flickering with the heat related pump running as it should and flowing water then replace the element. If you do not get 240V then you have an issue on the circuit board and likely a blown/burnt relay. Remove the board and have a look on the back for burnt or darkened areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted November 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 This is awesome! Thank you so much for the quick reply. I will make this test and report back. One quick question regarding the heat light. You mentioned it can't be flickering when I do this test. I did notice when it was lit up that it was flickering a bit. What would that indicate? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Flickering is the heater and sensors testing itself for flow and temp and once it is solid the heater is on and you should have 240V at the copper tabs. Temp should be displayed and heat indicator light solid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted November 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Alright, so after letting it start up it went from flickering to solid and temp was displayed. I measured voltage at the tabs (which were removed prior from heater prior to starting up) and I only have 14-15V. Is that pretty much telling me the board is bad or do I need to remove the board to check for burnt areas to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Probably a bad relay. An electronics repair guy should be able to fix it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 hours ago, sktyrhrtout said: do I need to remove the board to check for burnt areas to confirm. Yes but you won't always see something. It has to come out anyway. Find a local electronics repair shop. Relays are getting hard to find as time goes on and supply chain is fragile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted November 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Gotcha. Okay, looks like there are plenty of videos on removing the board. I'll try and find someone local who can repair it. When I pull it out the relays in question should be close to where those heater tabs come off the board, right? Thanks again for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 I normally have my guy do all the relays while he has it to freshen up the board. Relays are fairly cheap but as mentioned getting harder to find from what he tells me. Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted November 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 I am in Central California. I found Spokane Spas on this forum who gave me a rough estimate of $179 to do the heater relay. I'll see if I can source a few relays once I have the numbers off them. I haven't done much circuit board soldering but I have found a couple videos online and it doesn't seem to complicated. Really appreciate your help, though! I'll report back when I have decided what to do and update for future spa troubleshooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted November 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 Alright! Finally got back to the hot tub today and pulled the board. This is what I'm seeing on the back side: https://imgur.com/a/kld4rLj I was able to find the relays and ordered them last week. I have them in hand but wanted to check to see if there's anything else I need to be concerned with from the burn. I wiped it off after the photo and it doesn't look like it has affected any of the printed circuitry. Should I just replace both those relays and give it a shot? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted November 27, 2021 Report Share Posted November 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, sktyrhrtout said: Should I just replace both those relays and give it a shot? Yes. Let us know how you make out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted April 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2022 So I know this post is ancient but it might help someone in the future so I just wanted to make an update. I gave a shot at soldering it but man I am just no good at it or don't have a good soldering iron as I couldn't get the solder to flow. I didn't want to trash the board so I ended up sending it to Spokane Spa for repair. They replaced the relay for a reasonable price, tested the unit and got it back to me within a week of receiving it. A bit more expensive than doing it yourself but it was worth it for me. I got it all re-installed and boom! Heater works. Not too bad for a 20 year old hot tub and we have been using it since December with fantastic results. I have never had a hot tub before so having nightly winter soaks was amazing. We're in central CA so it doesn't get too cold but a soak on a sub 40 degree night right before jumping in bed was great! Thanks for everyone that helped and to anyone in the future I have email notifications set up so if you have something similar with any questions drop a post here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Jumping back on this topic as the hot tub went inop sometime last night. I went out today and no lights on the control panel. Checked the circuit breaker and it wasn't popped so I just reset it. There was a somewhat loud noise (sounded like the pump starting to turn) and a little bubble in the filter then nothing. Now every time I flip the circuit breaker I just get one click at the board and nothing. No lights on the control panel or anything. Any ideas on where to start the troubleshooting? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Test fuses first. Was it a loud hard buzzing sound? Is it a 2 speed pump? It might be a stuck low or high speed pump relay and it is sending power to both speeds at same time. Try and disconnect either the red or black wire from the back of the pump (high speed if you know what one it is) and see if it will run on low speed. Then disconnect the low speed wire and reconnect the high speed and see if it will run on high without low connected. Try them both connected and if you get the hard buzz you have a stuck relay. Did they replace all the relays or just the heater relay? On 11/20/2021 at 6:37 AM, CanadianSpaTech said: I normally have my guy do all the relays while he has it to freshen up the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted January 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 Okay got back out there to troubleshoot this thing and here's what I've got. 1. They only replaced the heater relays. I inquired about doing them all and they recommended just doing the one. I should have just had them all done but oh well. Fuses are all in tact. After disconnecting all loads from GFCI it works so I don't think it's the breaker. I then started pulling components to see if I could isolate it and when I disconnected the heater leads it fired up. Pump works and everything seemed to be good. So do I pull the board again and see if the heater relay is toast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted January 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 Well duh! I just put a bit more thought into and realized you already answered the question farther up in the thread. With the heater terminals disconnected I ran the tub until it called for heat. Checked the terminals and I have 240V there so it seems that would indicate a bad heating element right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted January 25, 2023 Report Share Posted January 25, 2023 10 hours ago, sktyrhrtout said: Checked the terminals and I have 240V there so it seems that would indicate a bad heating element right? If you have 240V off the board then yes that would indicate a bad heater element. Make sure when you install the new element to make sure the element is centered inside the heater tube and not touching the side wall of the tube or it will hot spot and be junk in short order. Disconnect the sensors, remove the heater tube from the pack. I normally remove the short side sensor from the tube so it's not in the way when removing/installing the element. There are small o-rings on the heater element leads that press up against the inside of the heater tube when it gets tightened. Make sure they don't fall off when installing. When tightening the element I will stick my finger in the long end of the tube and hold the element centered in the tube. Tighten the back one first then the side that you are holding. This will keep it centered. Then work backwards to reinstall the tube and sensors. Good to go. When ordering new element match the KW rating (4KW or 5.5KW) that is marked on the heater tube. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktyrhrtout Posted January 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2023 I ended up just ordering the whole heater tube assembly. I will double check the element is centered per your instructions, though. Thanks for your help! Heater should come in this weekend so hopefully I'll have a good updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virogiro Posted March 21, 2023 Report Share Posted March 21, 2023 Removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 21, 2023 Report Share Posted March 21, 2023 8 hours ago, Virogiro said: Suggestions Yes...Please start your own post. Post pics of the circuit board and the schematic on the inside cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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