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Caldera v Hot Springs


Shawna

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Hello everyone 

My husband and I are about to become first time hot tub buyers. Ive done a ton of research and had long discussions with my local dealer and even reached out to my local community page on FB. We walked into the showroom with a pretty good idea of what we liked/wanted, didn't like/need or "dream wish". We walked in knowing we wanted to look around but it was the Caldera Martinique we were really interested in. After getting over the sticker price we did end up putting money down to reserve or spot for the next order. With more research, I am wondering if we made the right choice. I do not like the entry over the lounge. While it might not be an issue now, 15 yrs from now we will be in our early 70's and that could be a problem. So now we are thinking of stepping up in the Seychelles. $$$$ is a factor. I don't know the price but the Martinique list w the options was just under $17k. We did get almost 5k in rebates and freebies  So first question is that a reasonable price? In my community folks are recommending the Hot Spring brand. I know they are a bit less expensive & are made under the same company umbrella. Any thoughts or opinions on switching brands? Finally the FreshWater salt system, that was my dream. Ive read mixed reviews but most of the negative comments could possible be owners and improper set up and maintenance. Thoughts?

just an FYI neither of these are in stock so no wet test and we are buying sight unseen

 

Thanks everyone!

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Thats wonderful to hear. Caldera has a good reputation and having confidence that both the company and the product stand the test of time is important.

Saltwater systems, like anythings, are subjective to each person. The upfront cost is more expensive than a tradition spa but if used correctly can save you a lot over the years on both product and time. My understanding the initial set up take a few days but once you get to you are good. 

The process, as I understand it, you add salt (not table salt) through the process of electrolysis the NaCl molecule is split leaving the Cl ion in solution. From what I read normal spa chlorine also contains stabilizers so the salt system reduce the amount of chemicals in the water. 

The water in these systems are softer and do not have the smell associated with traditional spas. For people with sensitive skin it could be a plus. 

Some spas can be converted with an aftermarket product. I would talk to your local caldera dealer first. it is also important to look at dates while researching. An article from 2005 might not be accurate now.  I hope that help answer some of your question. Hopefully we get more input from others too :)

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Hot Springs is the flagship models of which those have a good, better best, Caldera is the second level and like the flagship series, have 3 levels, good, better, best. If you can pull off a similar sized Hot Springs from the same level and cheaper or the same price, I would be jumping on it.

The Hot Springs lines are made in California and the Caldera's are made in Mexico and then have some final assembly in California.

I have been out of the Watkins pricing games but IMHO, 17K for a Caldera, unless it's one of the Luxury series is a LOT of money. However, these are strange times in the hot tub market and even other quality tubs that sold for $7000-$10000 in January are selling for $13000-$17000.

My only complaint with any Watkins tub is that everything in them is proprietary, you got to buy parts from them. Most other manufacturers use industry standard parts (some might be custom programmed, etc.) but in general, you can buy parts anywhere. My comments doesn't mean that a Hot Springs or a Caldera isn't a quality tub, just you are married to Watkins.

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Caldera and Hotspring share many components under the hood.  Hotspring's biggest claim to fame are their motomassager jets which you won't find on any other brand of spas in the industry (not even Caldera).       

In my opinion, Caldera's Utopia class spas are a step down from the Hotspring Highlife class spas due to several factors including the difference in framing (wood framing on Caldera spas, verses rot-free polycarbonate plastic framing on the Hotspring Highlife spas), and insulation (stuffed fiber verses spray foam insulation - stuffed fibercore is easier to remove/replace, but not as energy efficient in electrical operating costs as spray foam insulation).

But Caldera Utopia spas are a step up from Hotspring Limelight spas in terms of therapeutic performance (and build quality with the nicer ABS basepan on the Utopia and Highlife class spas).

I feel like Hotspring and Caldera's mid-tier spas should be fairly comparable in terms of performance and lifespan, with the biggest difference being style.

1 hour ago, cranbiz said:

The Hot Springs lines are made in California and the Caldera's are made in Mexico and then have some final assembly in California.

Actually only Hotspring Highlife and Aquaflow spas are made in the Vista California factory.  Hotspring Limelight and Hotspot spas are made in the Tijuana factory. 

2 hours ago, Shawna said:

Finally the FreshWater salt system, that was my dream. Ive read mixed reviews but most of the negative comments could possible be owners and improper set up and maintenance. Thoughts?

Freshwater Salt is the best implementation of saltwater in a hottub.  You get some information topside on the controller if there's an issue with the cell, and you can adjust chlorine output from the topside control panel.  Plus there's a ton of documentation online to get you going.

However, your Freshwater salt experience will depend a lot on your local water supply.   Hard water or high phosphate levels can negatively affect the performance and must be treated on every refill.  If you have city tap water which is properly balanced and not too hard or soft, you might have few issues whenever refilling.  But if you have hard water, or well water then you're going to have added headaches/expenses every time you refill.

Additionally, you need to watch your phosphate and pH levels to prevent burning out the salt cell too fast.  They say the cells last for four months, but some people don't even get two months out of them before replacing.   To me the system was too expensive to run so I opted for a more traditional care routine using an ozonator & silver mineral cartridge (my dealer's care routine has me dosing the spa with a bit of granular dichlor after each soak to keep the water sanitized).    Overall I spend less than $125 a year on chemicals to keep my water clean/clear, compared to $300+ just for the salt cells (not including the salt and all other chemicals you need to balance the water so the system *works*).

Note you're not stuck with any water chemistry care routine.  If you don't like salt you can call your dealer and have it removed/replaced with an ozonator.  Alternatively like in my case, I can easily call my dealer and have them install the freshwater salt system two years after delivery if I get bored with my setup and want a challenge haha.

(NOTE - I have saltwater in my pool.  Very different situation in a pool verses hottub)

1 hour ago, Shawna said:

My understanding the initial set up take a few days but once you get to you are good. 

Lol, that's an optimistic assumption. New hottubs are filthy things from factory assembly/testing - lots of nasty stuff festers in the plumbing between assembly and delivery day. Most new owners spend weeks/months fiddling with the system before it begins to generate adequate free chlorine to keep the system sanitized.

2 hours ago, Shawna said:

The water in these systems are softer and do not have the smell associated with traditional spas. For people with sensitive skin it could be a plus. 

I wet-tested two hotspring freshwater salt systems and I slightly disagree. With saltwater systems, you're constantly generating additional free chlorine, maintaining between 1.0 and 3.0 ppm free chlorine. 

With my ozonator setup paired with the circulation pump, my system is constantly injecting ozone into the water.  Ozone burns off organic contaminants through oxidation but is such a strong oxidizer that it even reacts with free chlorine. This means you can shock after use and not have to soak in a bleach bath the next day, because the ozone will burn off all the chloramines and most of the chlorine overnight.

In my setup, I am dosing the spa with enough chlorine after each use to clean the water, but 23 hours later when we hop in for our next soak there's practically zero chlorine left in the water (seriously, my bathtub on a fresh fill of water has twice as much chlorine as my hottub when we soak).  There is no chlorine odor nor does our skin get dry/itchy after soaking (only time that happens is if we chlorine shock the water - then we need to wait more than 24 hours before the chlorine levels are low enough for our preferences).

 

 

1 hour ago, cranbiz said:

My only complaint with any Watkins tub is that everything in them is proprietary, you got to buy parts from them. Most other manufacturers use industry standard parts (some might be custom programmed, etc.) but in general, you can buy parts anywhere

There's a method to the madness.  Few years back if you recall they had an issue with their electronics supplier who went out of business, royally screwing over everyone who had an older highlife spa from the early 2000's (who had the old IQ Eagle control boards).   From a longevity standpoint, you can't exactly guarantee replacement parts for 25 years if your parts suppliers go out of business, which is why they have opted to switch to proprietary components made in-house.  This ensures they retain more control over the supply chain to prevent fiasco's like the orca/eagle IQ boards.

Imagine if Gecko or Balboa went out of business (unlikely, but what if) - how many components would be obsolete and impossible replace for existing customers with spas "in the field".

For weekend warriors, I get it - balboa and gecko components are easier to swap out.  It's much harder for a non-authorized technician to service them due to a lack of information supplied by the vendor (Watkins sure as hell isn't going to offer firmware downloads to the public - they don't want someone to reverse engineer their intellectual property).

 

3 hours ago, Shawna said:

I do not like the entry over the lounge. While it might not be an issue now, 15 yrs from now we will be in our early 70's and that could be a problem.

Very valid concern and one which you shouldn't ignore.  Spas should be easy to enter - you don't want to risk falling and injuring yourself.     I love the lounger in my Jetsetter and would never own a spa without a lounger, but still I don't think I'd like entering from the lounger seat into the spa.

 

3 hours ago, Shawna said:

So first question is that a reasonable price? In my community folks are recommending the Hot Spring brand. I know they are a bit less expensive & are made under the same company umbrella

Every dealer has different operating margins, thus the price will vary wildly from dealer to dealer as they are responsible for warranty labor costs, not the manufacturer.  Additionally some dealers have sales reps on commission while others are on salary - I visited two different Hotspring dealers equidistant from my rural home on the Space Coast and ended up saving 20% in the process (no haggling needed, this was the dealers list price at both shops - not floor model,special order from both - same things included with both - steps, cover lifter, chemicals, free delivery, etc).    The caldera dealer in your region might be smaller and the Hotspring dealer might be larger with better pricing from the manufacturer - I would get some comparable quotes and see what you think.

 

 

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Ratchett- We also have a mineral cartridge and an ozonater.

Is the only chlorine you use the Dichlor added after each soak?  What do you get the reading to?  

Since ours is at a vacation rental and we can’t rely on guests to add after each soak ( and some might go in twice a day), we use a chlorine cartridge to hopefully keep the level from going to 0. 

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