Marquis Epic VS Hot Spring Vanguard

[billyk39]

I am considering purchasing my first hot tub, and I believe I have it narrowed down to these 2 tubs. I have not yet done a wet test because I needed to rule out the other manufacturers first (Jacuzzi, Sundance, CalSpas, Master Spas, Caldera, Wellis). My next step of course, will be a wet test, but I wanted to get some input from any owners of these 2 tubs in order to help inform my decision...any thoughts on longevity, etc. Both dealers and salespeople were extremely helpful, but I am currently leaning towards the Marquis dealership due to the very low-pressure approach I received from the salesperson. I am also interested in getting any feedback on whether I should opt for a tub with or without a lounger. The tub will primarily be used by me, my wife, and my 2 small children, but I anticipate a lot of solo time by myself as well. Any help/insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[billyk39]

17 minutes ago, billyk39 said:

I am considering purchasing my first hot tub, and I believe I have it narrowed down to these 2 tubs. I have not yet done a wet test because I needed to rule out the other manufacturers first (Jacuzzi, Sundance, CalSpas, Master Spas, Caldera, Wellis). My next step of course, will be a wet test, but I wanted to get some input from any owners of these 2 tubs in order to help inform my decision...any thoughts on longevity, etc. Both dealers and salespeople were extremely helpful, but I am currently leaning towards the Marquis dealership due to the very low-pressure approach I received from the salesperson. I am also interested in getting any feedback on whether I should opt for a tub with or without a lounger. The tub will primarily be used by me, my wife, and my 2 small children, but I anticipate a lot of solo time by myself as well. Any help/insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I would also appreciate any input on using a saltwater system as opposed to chlorine/bromine. Are they all they're hyped up to be, or am I better off sticking with the tried and true chlorine/bromine?

[ratchett]

The dealer plays a huge role in your experience as they are usually responsible for warranty labor costs.  Marquis makes some good spas, although I am a Hotspring Highlife fanboy personally.   Be sure to research the dealer's online reputation - what to previous customers say about service - are they satisfied or do you read complaints about their repair techs? Also ask dealers about the warranty call-out diagnostics fees.  Some dealers may give you a 5 year warranty, but only include 6-12 months free callouts before they charge to come out and even look at the spa, my hotspring dealer provides five years free callouts which does seem to be on the higher end, although I have seen some dealers include more.

 

3 hours ago, billyk39 said:

any thoughts on longevity

Industry average lifespan of a hottub seems to be 7-14 years depending on care/maintenance.  A budget grade spa might see the lower end of that average, and a flagship top-tier spa might see twice those lifespans.  However a lot of it depends on how you care/maintain a spa - water chemistry needs to be balanced, letting pH drift too low can cause an acid bath eating away at all the seals in your spa and excessive sanitizer usage can cause wear and tear on internal (and topside) components.   Also winterizing spa, allowing air into the plumbing can cause things to rust and rubber seals to dry/shrink/crack.    Are you the type of person who routinely cares for their stuff to keep them in tip-top shape, or do you prefer to buy and replace as needed?

Also know, pressure-treated lumber is the industry-preferred framing material (cheap and easy to handle). However all pressure-treated lumber produced after 2002 no longer contains arsenic and is far more susceptible to rot & infestation when exposed to moisture.  Spas built with PT lumber framing before 2002 have very different lifespans than spas built since.   That's why you'll see many brands utilizing polycarbonate tool-grade framing on their top-tier models which brings me to my next point....

Most brands these days build multiple product tiers to fit every budget.   Sometimes these changes between product tiers are bells & whistle upgrades (more jets, more power, more LED lights, etc), but sometimes there are changes under the hood to increase product lifespans.  Don't expect a budget grade Jacuzzi to have the same lifespan as a top-tier flagship model. 

 

3 hours ago, billyk39 said:

whether I should opt for a tub with or without a lounger

Before covid, the general rule of thumb was to wet-test a lounger before buying. Although not all dealers allow testing these days.   In general loungers are built for average height and body mass for average Americans.  You may have buoyancy issues if you are shorter or have a higher BMI.    However if you're the type to recline on a couch, I would certainly suggest considering a lounger.  You can use boosters or weighted belts to keep yourself in the lounger if you do have buoyancy issues.  

When shopping for my spa, I had no idea loungers existed before buying but knew I had to have one. I'm glad I did because the lounger is my favorite seat in the spa - I spend 90% of my time in it even when soaking solo.

 

2 hours ago, billyk39 said:

I would also appreciate any input on using a saltwater system as opposed to chlorine/bromine. Are they all they're hyped up to be, or am I better off sticking with the tried and true chlorine/bromine?

First thing to know - the saltwater systems are generating chlorine from the sodium chloride in the water.  Your salt concentrations in a Hotspring are almost half that needed for a saltwater pool setup (1750ppm), and way less than the ocean (which is around 10000-35000ppm)

My 2019 Jetsetter has the latest Freshwater salt compatibility built in. I can easily switch over to it if desired, however after researching, I personally have opted NOT to use it currently. (NOTE - even if your dealer installs the saltwater setup, they can easily disconnect and switch to another system if you desire in the future).

Hotspring has the best saltwater system on the market with topside controls and some error reporting if the cell is not working properly (or needs to be replaced). It also has the best documentation in the industry for saltwater hottubs.

However there are some cons to the Hotspring Saltwater setups from my perspective...

• Requires water to be balanced before system will generate chlorine - if your tap water is properly balanced and soft enough awesome you'll have few headaches getting started.  If you have HARD water or well water, you're probably going to have to spend extra $$ getting the water properly balanced with things like a water softener before the system will generate adequate chlorine
• Expensive - the salt cells retail for around $300 for three cartridges (one year supply), and you can only purchase them from your local hotspring dealer (proprietary part, not sold online currently).  To me, this sounds like a scheme by Hotspring to retain dealers by offering guaranteed residual income from customers.  (By comparison, my Ozonator + Silver Mineral & chlorine setup runs about $35 a year in chemicals plus $90 for the silver mineral cartridges per year)

I personally am not a fan of any continuous-feed system.  I think it makes people lazy.  I prefer dosing my spa with sanitizer after each use based on my usage at that time (I utilize a dosed sugar dispenser - takes me seconds to click the trigger and dispense just the right amount of granular dichlor chlorine).

Bromine is an older method of sanitizing a spa - it was popular decades ago because bromine is far more stable at hottub temps.  However bromine can be more harsh on the equipment compared to chlorine.  These days there are many accessories and options to reduce your need for sanitizers (things like ozonators, uv lights, silver ion minerals, and enzymes) so you don't need as much chlorine to keep things sanitized.    Tons of people still use bromine, but I don't.

 

Like I said, I'm a Hotspring Highlife fanboy. I love the styling and those motomassager jets which you won't find on any other of brand of spas in the industry.  But that doesn't mean avoid Marquis - they do make great spas for the price.

[billyk39]

@ratchettThank you so much for taking the time to weigh-in and explain the nuances of the different hot tubs and their benefits, etc. This has been extremely helpful and confirmed a lot of what I was thinking in regards to salt water systems and the lounger where it concerns my needs directly. I do want whatever I end up deciding on to last as long as possible, which is why I increased my budget once I finally went into the stores and saw the products firsthand. 

 

Both dealerships and salespeople get great reviews online, and I didn't feel pushed into more than I wanted by either (which goes a very long way in my book). The gentleman at the Marquis store never bad-mouthed any of the competition either (which I also greatly appreciate). 

My next step is to wet test both so I can really assess the jets and seating position.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my query, as I really don't want to get this decision wrong, considering the pricepoint of both tubs!!

[Ewood]

A wider diversity of seating molds (versus duplicate seats), would be my own preference, and may be an appealing factor for growing children.  It is often said by the sales reps here ...that the most commonly expressed regret of spa purchasers, is not electing to go a bit larger. 

I'd guess that besides the value of the additional room, the increased variety of seating designs is sought after, too.  

The Epic has a very appealing feature set, and has long been a 'performance spa' favorite on this forum.  If it were possible, consideration of the HS Envoy or Aria, would provide you with a closer equivalent competitor in form.

I spend the majority of time in my lounge, and could not ever own a spa without one.  Good luck in your search!