Marquis Euphoria 2003 Problem with topside Control panel…?

[Charma]

Marquis Euphoria 2003 with Balboa heater/tempsensors.

When starting up the SPA, all locks well. Heatpump is starting, and after a white the heater is clicking in as it should. Then after one minute or two I can see on the topside display some flicker and swiching between temp 24deg/C and set point 26deg/C (see attached video). And then after some secounds the heater is clicking out and I get an error message HFL witch ends up with error dr. Flicking on the display occours only when the heating starts.

Pumps are ok, same with the heater, temp sensors (in/out), and filters. Open service-valves and nozzles.

What could be the fault. Buying a new controldisplay is expensive, and I want to check out what I can before buying this.

Any experiences, ideas and suggestions?

 

[RDspaguy]

Your pic is not available. 

Did you recently fill?

Remove filter.

15 minutes ago, Charma said:

. Heatpump is starting,

Do have good flow from the return?

19 minutes ago, Charma said:

Pumps are ok, same with the heater, temp sensors (in/out), and filters.

That's quite a declaration. Please explain how you determined this.

21 minutes ago, Charma said:

What could be the fault.

I am usure about the flickering, but the rest could ba a number of things.

The flickering sounds like a shorting button in the topside, but if so would have nothing to do with the heater. So it maybe a fluctuating temp reading consistent with a sensor or heater issue. Or a power (main or low voltage) issue from a failing breaker or transformer. If you unplug the topside that system will run automated functions. Unplug it and see if it heats. If so, it's the topside.

Everything else says air lock, faulty sensor, dirty filter, or power issue. 

Post some pics of the circuit board, wiring diagram, and equipment area.

Loosen union nut on heater to bleed out any air. 

Check topside wire for damage from mice (very common).

Test incoming power at the spa with a digital multimeter. Verify voltage is steady when heater is on and topside is flickering (bad breaker).

Turn on spa light and see if it also starts to flicker (bad transformer). 

Remove heater and check for obstructions/debris.

Unplug sensors and test with ohm meter set in 20k range. It is very hard to get the tester probes on the wires in the connector, but it can be done on the side of the connector. Post results.

Always turn off power before reaching into that box to touch anything.

[Charma]

Hi RDspaguy

You obviously know this problems 🙂

I do not know why the video is not available ... Is a .mov file 

Yes, I had previously changed the water on the jacuzzi, but not sure when this error has occurred after this.
Have tried without filter. No change.
The heat pump starts first in the start-up process, and runs all the time until a fault occurs, and everything stops. Flow from the pump to the nozzles is completely normal, as before the error occurred.
The heating element (1.5kw) is checked water-filled in disconnected condition from the SPA, with power from external supply. The power readings was about 1.45KW and about 5.8A.

Have more videos and pictures in connection with the troubleshooting, but difficult to post everything here on the forum ...

Regarding the sensors, (you put me up to the wall here a bit :-)) but I have tried to replace them, and in addition ohm`ed they. Measured in stagnant water (approx. 21.5 gr.C).
Sensor in on heating element showed 028 and 036 ohms measured opposite polarity, respectively.
Sensor out of heating element showed 032 and 032 ohms measured opposite polarity, respectively.
So I guess they work.

As for the flicker, you say that I can try to remove the connector to the topside panel, and the heatup process should go....?
Ok - At what point in the startup process do you mean I should unplug it?

Measurement of voltage to the heating element is measured during start-up, and seems stable (230v).
Believes that there is no air lock in the system, as the pump runs plenty of water through.

As for your suspicion of mice, it's also a thought I've had, and still have !!! But to get the wire to the topside control panel checked, I have to loosen the panel first, to get the whole wire pulled out? Will I could do this without braking anything?

If you want further feedback, I will answer.
Possibly for your own pm?

Hope to get the SPA back in service before the Norwegian winter starts 🙂

[RDspaguy]

4 hours ago, Charma said:

Sensor in on heating element showed 028 and 036 ohms measured opposite polarity, respectively.
Sensor out of heating element showed 032 and 032 ohms measured opposite polarity, respectively.
So I guess they work.

Sensors do not have polarity, nor does an ohm meter. The sensors should read in the tens of thousands of ohms, so these numbers are meaningless to me. But the sensors should be within a few hundred ohms of each other.

4 hours ago, Charma said:

At what point in the startup process do you mean I should unplug it?

Turn power off, unplug topside, turn power on. It should work as normal except you can't use the buttons. The topside is just a display and buttons.

4 hours ago, Charma said:

But to get the wire to the topside control panel checked, I have to loosen the panel first,

Just check the exposed areas. Not much room for mice under the topside.

4 hours ago, Charma said:

Possibly for your own pm?

Not sure why you want to pm. Better to have the info in the thread for the next person looking for answers.

Pics of the circuit board, wiring diagram, and equipment area would help alot. 

 

[Charma]

- Readings from the sensors was with ohm meter set in 2000k range. "The sensors have no polarity" - What I meant anyway was that the last of the two measurements on each sensor was performed the opposite way on the wires. 

- I will try the test with unplug topside control panel, as you suggests, and get back on the topic with results when I get your proposal checked. 

If the problem is solved with this disconnection then I have to pull out the cable, witch is going from pc-board to topside control panel inside the SPA - through a hole behind the pc-board cabinet, (and this hole is large enough for mice to enter). So a possibly damaged wire should be inside there. And to get that done, I think I must loosen and remove the topside panel...?

But I have to wait one week or so, due to the fact that I have now left the cottage, where the SPA stands. 

PM was only due to this problems with attached files... But I try again.

[RDspaguy]

5 hours ago, Charma said:

What I meant anyway was that the last of the two measurements on each sensor was performed the opposite way on the wires. 

I understand. And what I was saying is there should be no difference in the reading if you switch the test leads around. The fact that you got 2 different readings from one sensor suggests a faulty test or bad sensor. Set ohm meter in 20k ohms setting for a reading, they should be a few hundred ohms apart at most. If your tester is not that precise it will not work for this test.

https://spacare.com/balboasensorresistancevalues.aspx

The topside is held in with double sided foam tape and maybe some caulk. Cut under the edge about a half inch with a knife and gently pry it out. 

I was hoping for a pic of the whole circuit board. Sometimes I can see problems with relays and such. From what I can see, the board looks good. Which does not mean it is.😉

 

 

[Charma]

I will re-test the sensors again with 20k ohm setting, and also with a new ohm-tester.

You mentioned that the topside is held in with double sided foam tape and maybe some caulk. 

Did you then mean the topside-overlay? Because I think it must first be removed, to get to screws that hold the topside control panel in place. Is it correct to understand? or is the controlpanel also just glued in place?

Here is also another picture from the circuit board. May be better...

Otherwise, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me who has a SPA problem. You will hear from me as soon I go up to the cottage (in a little over a week), and have further tests / results.

 

[RDspaguy]

There shouldn't be any screws. Just a 1/8" foam tape that comes on the topside. If it has been removed or came loose it will be caulk. But if you are replacing it anyway you can peel the overlay and look. It's just a sticker.

Chech the transformer plug for corrosion and a good connection. Feel the transformer after running for a bit. It should be warm but not hot.

 

[Charma]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:28 AM, RDspaguy said:

There shouldn't be any screws. Just a 1/8" foam tape that comes on the topside. If it has been removed or came loose it will be caulk. But if you are replacing it anyway you can peel the overlay and look. It's just a sticker.

Chech the transformer plug for corrosion and a good connection. Feel the transformer after running for a bit. It should be warm but not hot.

 

Hi again I am now back, and have disconnected from the topside panel as you saus, and reset the SPA.  Then everything works as it should for the time being. The temperature has now passed 30 degrees / C, and I'm curious if it stops at 39 degrees / C? Should it?  So then it seems like something must be wrong with the topside panel or wire up there?  or….?  In any case, I must disassemble the topside panel to remove the cable.

[Charma]

12 hours ago, Charma said:

Hi again I am now back, and have disconnected from the topside panel as you said, and reset the SPA.  Then everything works as it should for the time being. The temperature has now passed 30 degrees / C, and I'm curious if it stops at 39 degrees / C? Should it?  So then it seems like something must be wrong with the topside panel or wire up there?  or….?  In any case, I must disassemble the topside panel to remove the cable.

So, since the temperature has risen steadily from 22 to >30 degr/C, and everything seems to have worked well, I thought to check for errors again by connecting the topside panel again….  And so far everything still working well.  Hmmm, then I dont understand anything.  Why does everything suddenly work well now (at >30 degr/C)? Could it be a temperature sensor that is faulty in the lower area and creates problems but is okey at higher temperature? 
Or could it still be another cause?

[RDspaguy]

You can't troubleshoot a spa that's working. Intermittent problems are tough to diagnose. It should heat to around 38C.