John87 Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 I have a SunDance Exportations 850 i think the date is 2002 or 2004. 2 years ago the spa stopped heating. I replaced the heater but it didn't fix it. I also have a FLO error, but the circulation pump seems to be working because i can feel the succion near the filter. So I opened the panel and took a look at the Flow Switch. I took the switch apart noticed it's still able to move in the "close" position. But when I connect it back to the tubing, the switch is not moving (yes it's installed correctly). It appears the flow is too weak to close the switch. I tried making the tubing tighter by holding it with grip pliers but it didn't change anything. I also did bled the air. When I get the FLO error, the spa is still working (except the heater). The jets and bubbles are working. I also tried shorting the switch but I get a FLO2 error. Since the switch seems to be able to close itself when not connected to the tubing, it seems rather than a problem with the strength of the flow rather than the flow switch itself. So I doubt replacing the Flow Switch will fix my issue. Should I replace the pump instead? There is a pump close to the switch which is very hot to the touch, but there's not so much vibration so i'm not sure if it's still working. Can it be clogged? Should I drain the spa, remove the pump and clean it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 Well done so far, and you included pics! 👍 20 minutes ago, John87 said: noticed it's still able to move in the "close" position. Did you test it for continuity? Just because the flap moves does not mean the switch is good. 21 minutes ago, John87 said: (yes it's installed correctly If you screw those in too far the flap will hang up on the bottom curve of the pipe and not work, even though the arrow is pointing the right way. 24 minutes ago, John87 said: making the tubing tighter by holding it with grip pliers ??? Why? Where exactly?... Forget it, it doesn't matter, just don't do that anymore. 😉 44 minutes ago, John87 said: also tried shorting the switch but I get a FLO2 error. As you should. 45 minutes ago, John87 said: a problem with the strength of the flow rather than the flow switch itself. It could be, but... 46 minutes ago, John87 said: but the circulation pump seems to be working because i can feel the succion near the filter. You can see where the suction line from the circ pump goes, it should be very easy to notice the flow, and if you cover it up with your hand the pump sound will change. If not, it's probably a restriction or bad pump. 50 minutes ago, John87 said: So I doubt replacing the Flow Switch will fix my issue. Yet to be determined. 50 minutes ago, John87 said: There is a pump close to the switch which is very hot to the touch They always are, but should be hot, not OMG get me some ice. 52 minutes ago, John87 said: but there's not so much vibration so i'm not sure if it's still working. Hard to say, as that describes a perfectly working one as well. 53 minutes ago, John87 said: it be clogged? Should I drain the spa, remove the pump and clean it? Yes it can, and yes you should. Check that flow switch just to be sure, they are prone to failure. Backflush the circ pump pipes. Clamp them off with needle nose vice grips to remove pump then open them up and let them flow. If either side is slow, you have an obstruction, which will hopefully flush out. Clamp off while you... Clean the circ pump, reinstall, and test it as described for flow. Remove the needlenose after you get the pump in, of course. (Hey, sometimes a guy can overlook stuff, ok? It was only a few times...🤫) Let us know how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John87 Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 Hi, thanks for the reply! 31 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: Did you test it for continuity? Just because the flap moves does not mean the switch is good. The flap moves ONLY when disconnected from the tubing. When the switch is hooked to the tubing, the flap never moves at all. That's why I didn't test for continuity (I assume the electrical signal is sent only when the flap is in the "closed" position) 31 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: If you screw those in too far the flap will hang up on the bottom curve of the pipe and not work, even though the arrow is pointing the right way. It seems to be correctly screwed. I also tried loosing the screw until I see some water come out, and the flap didn't move. 31 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: ??? Why? Where exactly?... Forget it, it doesn't matter, just don't do that anymore. 😉 Hahah I assumed tightening the tubing would increase the pressure and maybe the flap will move in the flow switch, like how a garden hose pressure increase when you put your finger over the end of it 😅 31 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: You can see where the suction line from the circ pump goes, it should be very easy to notice the flow, and if you cover it up with your hand the pump sound will change. If not, it's probably a restriction or bad pump. What should I cover with my hand? Do you mean the intake hole of the filter? 31 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: They always are, but should be hot, not OMG get me some ice. I just checked and holy f*cking sh*t... 204 degrees fahrenheit WTF I'm going to try to clean the pump and backflush as you described. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 hours ago, John87 said: What should I cover with my hand? Do you mean the intake hole of the filter? Oh, it's one of those. Remove the filter. That may solve your issues right there. Cover the intake port to test. 2 hours ago, John87 said: just checked and holy f*cking sh*t... 204 degrees fahrenheit WTF Yep, flow restriction or bad pump. Much more of that and it will be a bad pump if it isn't already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John87 Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 So apparently 200+ degrees is normal After removing the tubing off the pump, water comes out of the 2 tubes. Doesn't seem like there is any obstruction. I used a shopvac to drain the tubes, then I used an electric air blower with an adapter to push air into the tubes while the hot tub was half filled with water. When the blower was pushing air in the tubes, I could see a lot of air bubbles coming in the spa, so it isn't obstructed and the pump is definitely not obstructed neither After these tests I'm pretty confident there is not any obstruction. Also when I start all of the jets, I can see the flow is stronger when going through the flow switch, but the flap is still not moving I have also noticed when i manually turn off all jets on the spa, it's quiet and there isn't any sound. So the circulation pump is not working when jets are off. I'm not sure this is expected behavior or not (i've read somewhere that FLO error will disable both heater and circulation pump) Already tried running it without the filter but it didn't change anything. I'm not able to completely cover the intake hole because it looks like this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spastore.com%2F6540-503-sundance-spas-microclean-filter-assembly-adapter-diameter-8-5%2F&psig=AOvVaw1pGLXgGWnDhtq2r7xQY9CD&ust=1626481361208000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJCq4bOp5vECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD Should I replace the flow switch or the pump? Is there a way to short/bypass the flow switch without triggering the FLO2 error, just to see if it fixes the issue with the circ pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Sounds like the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John87 Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Is this the pump I need for a Sundance Exportation 850 ? https://www.amazon.ca/Laing-E10-NSHN2W-20-Spa-Circulation-Pump/dp/B004VU8B6U/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Not sure, there is no voltage listed. https://www.spadepot.com/Laing-E10-Spa-Circulating-Pump-34-Barb-240V-P8253C300.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John87 Posted July 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 So I ended up buying this pump: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00KATXT22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Received it today, just finished installing it. Unfortunately it didn't change anything, the situation is still the same. As soon as I turn the power on, I get the FLO error and all pumps are turned off. The pump I just replaced feels warm to the touch, but it isn't moving any water (no sound or vibration) Anything else I can try beside changing the entire motherboard? (too expensive for an old hot tub) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 You bought the wrong voltage pump. You need a 240v one like I listed. Check the voltage to the pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John87 Posted July 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 I ended up buying this pump instead: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B077SGZ23W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Works perfectly and it solved all of my problems! The FLO error went away, circulation pump started normally, I can see the flap moving to "closed" position in the flow switch, AND best of all my heater is working again ! I wasted $800 replacing this heater and I didn't understand that the circulation pump was the cause of all issues. I even bought a $300 external heater in a desperate attempt to fix my spa. Thanks a lot for your help, it was a great opportunity to learn more about repairing spas. With this knowledge I feel confident I will do better next time I run into some issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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