jcyphert Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I recently acquired a Caldera Salina Spa with Electric Heat. I have free gas and would like to convert it over to the Raypak 156a. It already has the remote control option built into it. My question is, how do I send the on/off signal from the current Caldera topside board to the new Raypak Heater when it demands heat? Currently, I believe when the board demands heat it just turns the 240v elec heater on that directly wired to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 You cannot interface the gas heater. You will have to set the temp at the heater and allow it to run anytime the pump is on and the water is cool. The pressure switch and limit switches in the heater become the safety devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 How do I prevent the spa from freezing in the winter? Leave the circ pump on at all times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Your spa sensors still control the pump, and will turn it on whenever it calls for heat. If you need protection on the heater you will have to relocate the temp sensor, which is easy to say... Post pics of equipment and circuit board. Most Caldera spas have a 24/7 low flow circ pump that will not work for your gas heater because the flow is too low to activate the pressure switch. Depending on the control system, you probably cannot make it run as an on-demand heat with the main pump. Calderas are usually designed solely for a low flow circulation pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 So it looks like when the control needs heat, it just pushes 220v power to the electric heater. Would I be able to put a relay (or something) in line that would sense the 220v and close the circuit to turn on the raypak? I guess I'm not following how it would work if the control calls for heat and the raypak says it's still good. Or worse, the raypak thinks it needs to turn on but the spa doesn't so the spa pump never kicks on and the heat is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I don't see a lot if savings here. That spa should run no more than $450/$500 a year on electric and a large portion of that you will need to spend anyway for filtering and running the pumps when in use. Heating cost is a part but not ALL your monthly cost. You will be 6/7/8 years before you see any savings and by that time the $2000 Raypack will need replacement and you start all over...but you might get lucky. Like @RDspaguymentioned flow rate and tapping into 3/4 " low flow plumbing might cause issue. You are going to need to do a lot of research to make it work. I could see interest in a gas set up if you had a swim spa. Will this be just for the hot tub or is it going to feed/heat a pool as well?.... then maybe the cost is justified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Spa only for now. I'm in pa where it gets cold and I want to run it all year. I'm $1600 on the raypak. Already ordered. I just found this forum today and info had been sparse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Well good luck and we will try and help where we can. Please document your journey and post it here and possibly help the next guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 46 minutes ago, jcyphert said: Would I be able to put a relay (or something) in line that would sense the 220v and close the circuit to turn on the raypak? You wouldn't even need a relay, but it won't help you. The heater already has it's own computer, startup, sensors, etc. It is made to work on a pump on a timer. Interrupting main power will not change a thing. But that tiny pump (last pic) cannot keep up with ANY gas heater. Period. And that control system cannot be made to run the main pump for heat. You could drop in a relay to fire off of the circ pump and feed the main pump with it, but then your jets are on high constantly, which will burn up your pump, overheat your spa, and cost you more than the electric heater would in power usage. You will have to put in a new control system, which is a problem with these as nothing aftermarket will fit. My advice is send the heater back, or buy a different spa for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: My advice is send the heater back, or buy a different spa for it. agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 Not the news I wanted to hear, but thank you, guys, for your feedback! If I stick with the electric heater in the spa, is it cheaper to run it at the temp we want all year, or better to let it cool down 10 or so degrees when not in use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 There are other things you can do for efficiency... Use a cover cap. Keeps cold air from blowing through the cover and will also keep the heat in better. the https://www.canadahottubparts.ca/hot-tub-cover-cap/ Thermal blanket on top of the water: https://www.thecoverguy.com/en-ca/products/spas-and-accessories/caps-and-blankets/deluxe-foam-thermal-blanket-8x8/ Both are a bit of a PIA though. Check your owners manual for Economy or Summer Time modes. I keep mine at set temp 104. Might turn down to 95 if I know I won't use it for a few days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 I hate to beat a dead horse, but what are your thoughts on using a dedicated hot water tank as the heat source? If I have it set at the desired temp and the always on circ pump running, would that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 I would be concerned about the chemicals/ph damaging the heater. Otherwise it might work. Never seen anyone try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 PA cold sure....I live in Canada and really your spa is well built and well insulated and designed to be efficient in cold climates. What is causing you to be so concerned? Have you received over the top hydro bills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 13 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: PA cold sure....I live in Canada and really your spa is well built and well insulated and designed to be efficient in cold climates. What is causing you to be so concerned? Have you received over the top hydro bills? This is a new-to-me spa that I already fixed. This will be the first I have used it. I own the gas well and it has far too much pressure on it. So the more I burn off the better. I hate to pay for something that I have sitting there for free so I'm pretty reluctant on the electricity avenue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I have a spa filter I routed outside of my spa cabinet, has worked fine for a decade now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcyphert Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Cusser said: I have a spa filter I routed outside of my spa cabinet, has worked fine for a decade now. Are you using this to heat or just filter? I'm more worried about proper circulation and ability to heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 11 hours ago, jcyphert said: This is a new-to-me spa that I already fixed. This will be the first I have used it. I own the gas well and it has far too much pressure on it. So the more I burn off the better. I hate to pay for something that I have sitting there for free so I'm pretty reluctant on the electricity avenue. I get it.... but IMO right now with the spa you have it's a square peg in a round hole kinda deal. There are systems available to do what you want (see below) and it can be done. Can it be done with your current system and set up... https://geckoportal.com/ingrid https://issuu.com/geckomkt/docs/ingrid_techbook_en?e=14165552/54355200 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 The main issue is flow rate from the circ pump, which is too low for the heater you ordered (but might work with a household water heater, regular or tankless) and the replumbing that would be needed, not to mention the bigger pump, to increase it. On a home water heater that uses 120v, feeding power off of the board heater connection will work as a thermostat control. It won't work with a pilot light heater (millivolt). You will get a little overheat from a tank, but a tankless you won't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 20 hours ago, jcyphert said: Are you using this to heat or just filter? I'm more worried about proper circulation and ability to heat. Just to filter. My CalSpa is a 1988 model, and I always had issues with its factory filter cartridge housing leaking, plus the big plastic "nut" kept breaking and was at least $20. Plus access to even remove the housing was ridiculous. So I routed the plumbing out of the cabinet, with shut off valves on both sides of the filter, and used an aftermarket Hayward filter unit which seals at the top. I cover this all with a wooden box I made, not in the photo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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