Spa Builders LX-15 Board Questions

[theweight]

Taking a shot to see if anyone is familiar with this old board.

Did some trouble shooting and after ruling out components feel that the board is bad (no power).  Board is Circa 2001.

The board is in a Spa Builders LX-15 box and is marked 3-60-0104 and has a software (EPROM) chip marked 5.31.   The 5.31 was important because when I replaced my top side I needed one that would work with that software version as they didn't make top sides for the older 1.3x software.  I think these units were known as Len Gordon.

Now, I have found several boards online that look exactly like my board.  The pictures even show the 3-60-0104 number.  However, the listing always show a different part number of 3-60-0165 (or some other numbers for the last 4).    It's possible the pictures are generic and no one I've contacted is willing to say for sure whether the slightly different model number would work or even if their pic is generic (at least not yet anyway).   Of course, since it's a PCB board no one will accept a return.

Anyone out there familiar with these units that knows whether the boards with a higher number would work?

If I hadn't just replaced the top side 6 months ago I may have just replaced the whole package right away.  But I figured if this board lasted 20 years it must have been good quality.  

I know if's a long shot but since it's summer I've got some time before the boss gets on my case so I thought I'd check around longer.   There seem to be many Spa Pack Replacement kits out there and I'm sure I'd find one to retrofit.

Thanks

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Need a bit more information.

Does the topside light at all? are there any error codes? 

Did you do your testing using a multi meter and verified you have 240V going into the pack?

Did you test all fuses. If fuses are good did you test the transformer (see page 5 of manual below)

 

https://docplayer.net/20988149-Spa-builders-lx-10-standard-troubleshooting-approach.html

[RDspaguy]

Haven't seen one of those in a long time, but I recall them being pretty generic, with the revision number being the only detail needed to order it. I might even have one floating around in my garage...🤔

[theweight]

2 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Need a bit more information.

Does the topside light at all? are there any error codes? 

Did you do your testing using a multi meter and verified you have 240V going into the pack?

Did you test all fuses. If fuses are good did you test the transformer (see page 5 of manual below)

 

https://docplayer.net/20988149-Spa-builders-lx-10-standard-troubleshooting-approach.html

CanadianSpaTech - thanks for the reply.  We were pretty sure it's the board which is why I asked about the model numbers.   But, as I read your post to the manual, I don't remember checking the transformer voltage.  I think we just checked it for continuity.  The fuses did check out and the power coming in was verified.   There is no display on the top side.   So power in but nothing runs.

6 months ago I replaced the top side.  Intermittent display issues, buttons not working, ect.   We unplugged the top side while waiting for the new one to arrive and noticed the spa ran fine.  I believe it simply used it's default settings (100 degrees, 2 or 4 cycles etc).  Now, with the top side unplugged (old telephone style - like a Cat5 cable) the unit does not run.  

We will go back and check the transformer voltage. 

Thanks for posting that link to the manual.  Gut feeling is the board but a transformer is a lot cheaper.

Keep you posted..

 

[theweight]

1 hour ago, RDspaguy said:

Haven't seen one of those in a long time, but I recall them being pretty generic, with the revision number being the only detail needed to order it. I might even have one floating around in my garage...🤔

RDspaguy - thanks for your reply.   I did find some more info on the models and you are correct that they are generic (sort of).  My board (ending in -0104) was the first iteration and used a software version of 1.3x (can't remember exactly).  A subsequent board (ending in -0119) was made with a newer EPROM chip which contained the 5.31 software.  Still another (ending in -0165) was also made with the 5.31 software but also allowed for an Extended cord of up to 50 feet (some top sides had this - not sure why)

At least that's how it was explained to me from an online tech.

In addition, for folks like me that had the original board, you can add the 5.31 software by swapping out the old EPROM chip with the newer software, which is what was done to my board.

Basically, the 5.31 software allowed more functionality with top side displays and seems to be the current one.  

So, I'm good to use the later boards as long as they have the 5.31 Chip/software as my top side is built for that software version.

But, I will test the voltage on the transformer as per CanadianSpaTech suggestion before I order a new board.

Might be a day or two but I will report back....

 

 

 

[theweight]

  

23 hours ago, theweight said:

OK - we tested the in/out on the transformer.

First we tested the yellow wires (out) and got very low readings. zero , one, 1.x  Yea - it's the transformer...

But then we tested the black and red wires (in) and the readings bounced from 40 to 90.  Several times.  I would have expected the input to be 230 - 240. right?   

So, were thinking bad board because of the input readings but maybe we're not understanding what it should read.

 

 

23 hours ago, theweight said:

 

 

 

 

[RDspaguy]

Test the incoming voltage to the spa.

[theweight]

4 minutes ago, RDspaguy said:

Test the incoming voltage to the spa.

Incoming voltage was 220.  This was confirmed several times.  All good with the incoming supply.

We tested the 2 yellow plugs on the Transformer and when we saw little or no output we were leaning to the transformer (based on trouble shooting guide that CanadianSpaTech linked to).  Now that guide didn't really say to check the red and black wires which we considered input to the transformer but we decided to check them anyway.  Maybe that was incorrect to check them but we did anyway These are the black and red wires on the white plug near the middle of board.  We expected to see 220, but we got readings that bounced between 40 and 90.   

Now, maybe that's correct for this board.   Again, the trouble shooting guide did not mention these black and red wires.

But, definitely not the right voltage coming out from the yellow wires but maybe that's because the right voltage is not going in via the black and red wires.

 

 

[RDspaguy]

4 hours ago, theweight said:

We expected to see 220,

120 or 240, depending on system and transformer, but steady voltage is a must.

4 hours ago, theweight said:

that's because the right voltage is not going in

👍

4 hours ago, theweight said:

Incoming voltage was 220.  This was confirmed several times.  All good with the incoming supply.

Did you test to neutral for 110v? Most spa transformers use a 120v line voltage, so a good neutral is needed. It sounds like a loose neutral connection or failing gfci breaker.

Check all fuses, including the 2 tiny ones on the board.

[theweight]

17 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

120 or 240, depending on system and transformer, but steady voltage is a must.

👍

Did you test to neutral for 110v? Most spa transformers use a 120v line voltage, so a good neutral is needed. It sounds like a loose neutral connection or failing gfci breaker.

Check all fuses, including the 2 tiny ones on the board.

Thanks for hanging in there with me.  My electrician friend has confirmed power in.  I just say it wrong 😔

240 coming into the panel.  confirmed by probe checking the posts

110 also confirmed by checking the neutral.

Fuses confirmed as all have continuity.

Strange readings on black/red wires on transformer (jumping from 40 to 90 volts).

Little or no output on the yellow wires.

I had all other wires disconnected (pump, blower, heater, pressure, top side, etc).

At this point and due to the age of the enclosure (there is some minor oxidation) I think I may just replace the entire spa pack.   

Any suggestions?    

[RDspaguy]

https://www.spadepot.com/Balboa-VS-Spa-Control-Kit-P3185

[theweight]

An update on this and just to close this thread out.

I checked locally to see if I could find a local guy to help troubleshoot.   Most of the local shops have stopped servicing and just do chemicals now.   Some will only work on models they sell.

One local did track down something similar to the Balboa that RDspaguy recommended.  But that was over 800.00 and did NOT include installation.

After kicking around Parts vrs new Pack I decided on parts as I had a gut feeling it was the board.  I was also concerned about how long it would take for a new pack.

Anyway I replaced the board with this:

Spa Builders by Allied Innovations - Circuit Board PCB: LX-15 ALPHA REV 5.31 - 3-60-0119

It is basically the same board with the same software version (5.31).  Cost was 270.00 US.

I also decided to go ahead and replace the Transformer with this:

Spa Builders by Allied Innovations - Transformer, LX-10/15 With Plug 220V Systems 

Basically an upgraded transformer.  Cost was 73.00 US.

I installed them both and everything is working fine.  I was thinking of just installing one or the other to pin point exactly which part was bad but you pretty much need to take it all apart for each piece.  Simpler to install them both at the same time. 

Thanks for everyone who helped out with tips and pointers.  The trouble shooting guide provided by CanadianSpaTech was especially helpful.  The new board came with the jumpers configured for a 2nd motor (which I don't have), and the guide showed me which ones to set to off.

The Boss is Happy !!

Thanks Again !!

 

[SpaOwnersBrother]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:49 PM, CanadianSpaTech said:

Need a bit more information.

Does the topside light at all? are there any error codes? 

Did you do your testing using a multi meter and verified you have 240V going into the pack?

Did you test all fuses. If fuses are good did you test the transformer (see page 5 of manual below)

 

https://docplayer.net/20988149-Spa-builders-lx-10-standard-troubleshooting-approach.html

I’ve checked secondary voltage off the transformer and am only getting 7 volts.  The issue I’m having is that the unit seems to be “resetting” and defaulting to 100 degrees.  I set it to 85 degrees and then it will auto reset at some point and next time I check it will be 100.  Any help would be great!