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Cadera Spa HawaiianLE

Jet pump won't stop.  Topside control panel won't stop it.  Get double dashed lines on control panel after a few minutes.  Turning off power overnight does not solve issue.  Cycling power off and on several times quickly does not solve problem.  Assistance/ideas appreciated.  Thanks.

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Remove filters until issue is solved.

Post some pics of the circuit board, wiring diagram, and equipment area so we can see what you've got in there.

Do you have a multimeter?

Does it go immediately into the dashes and pump running or does it take a few seconds, or a few minutes, after power up?

In the footwell is a heat return jet that has tiny champagne bubbles blowing out of it. Is this working?

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Thanks for the reply.  I'll do my best.

Filter is out.  But problem persists with or without.  

When powered on, double dashed lines take about a minute to appear.  Touching a button on the control panel will make them go away for 10 to 15 seconds and then they return.  You seem to be able to cycle through the functions of the control panel but the jets stay on.  I believe I can also here the circulating pump come on during this or if I leave it running for a while.  

As best I can tell the intakes and outputs in the footwell, and elsewhere frankly, are functioning as intended.  For example I feel suction at the intakes and all outputs are ejecting even the fountain.

Heater also appears to be working.  

Picture of circuit board I hope.  Has three lights illuminated: two red and one green but I have no idea what they are indicating.

I have a multi meter but may not be proficient in its use.

20210607_095747.jpg

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I have owners manual and can take more pictures as required.  And omitted one answer-jets come on right away when spa is powered on.  In a faint hope I am running it for an hour to see if the one-hour shut-off does anything.  I suspect it won't.

 

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The circulation pump must be running properly or this is exactly what will happen. Test circulation pump operation.

On the right side of the heater tube is a small black square with a gray cord coming off of it. This is your pressure switch. Follow the cord back to the circuit board and unplug it. Power up and see what it does. Then use a screwdriver or piece of foil to jumper the two pins that it plugged into and see what it does. If either of these causes it to start working, and the circ pump is working, replace the pressure switch.

The 3 leds have labels beside them on the board. Usually lim ok, htr on, and control unplugged. Post a close up pic of the leds.

Post a pic of the equipment area including pumps so we can see what's in there.

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Powered up spa with pressure switch unplugged.  No difference.  Tried screwdriver on leads on board and no change.  Both pumps running.  Did i understand correctly....

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  • SJG changed the title to Jets won't turn off

Yes, you did. You were testing the pressure switch.

14 hours ago, SJG said:

Has three lights illuminated: two red and one green but I have no idea what they are indicating.

 

11 hours ago, SJG said:

Green is limited OK and red is heater OK.  Other red indescript.

So the 3 leds in this stack are all on? The other one is usually "control unplugged", and should not be lit. Please verify. Check control panel wire for damage.

 

 

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Sorry for the confusion.  The three lights in the stack are not all on.  

Lim OK is green

Control unplugged is not lit

Htr on is red

 

There is another led that is red above the k4 module.  Control panel strap looks fine.  Could I unplug it and try a restart.  Perhaps I should have mentioned that I have unplugged the light wire as it was damaged but that has been the case since we started.

Thanks again.

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Ok. The heater light is on, so test voltage to the heater. What temp is the water? Is there a reading on the display? 

On the heater next to the pressure switch is a black tab with 2 blue wires. This is the high limit. Follow the wires back to the board and unplug them and the one just above them, which should be the temp if I'm not mistaken. It may be labeled "reg therm". Set your tester to ohms, around 20k if adjustable, and take a reading on both sets of wires. 

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Part 1 (of many)

Temp reading of water is about 94 and I can see it rising if I leave the spa on for a while.  

How do I test the voltage to the heater.  There looks to be two black wires going to terminals and a green.

The two blues do in fact go to limit therm and the gray to reg therm.  Are you asking to test the pins on the board or on the wires in the connectors.  

You might tell I am the limit of my competence 

 

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I powered up the spa with the reg therm and limit therm wires disconnected.  Jets still running.  Dashed lines still appearing but temp reading was 50F which might be a default because the water is warmer than that.  Also the green light was out which makes sense I think.  I tested the ac voltage across the two black connectors and it was zero - if I was using the multi meter correctly.  Still not sure on the resistance test you want me to do???  

Tested voltage with gray and blue wires disconnected so that might explain the zero reading??

Edited by SJG
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Just lost my third part.

I have my multimeter set to 20k and when the leads are touching it reads zero and when not touching it reads 1.  I think that's correct.

I tested the two wires at their connectors.  

The two blue wires gave a reading of 8.5 and the gray a reading of 7.3.  

I hope I am doing this correctly.  Thanks yet again.

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You are.

That is a huge discrepancy on the thermistors. Either you have a flow restriction through the heater (unlikely if the pump is running) or you have a faulty thermistor. I suggest you replace both at the same time. Not sure that is the cause, but it is definitely a problem.

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Thanks for your assistance.  I am wondering about your thought that there could be a flow restriction.  1.  I took the readings with the spa off.  So are you suggesting one has no water around it.  2.  Are you saying they should be roughly the same value as the water temp is the same and that is what they measure.  3.  I am going to remeasure first thing in the morning.  Might be grasping at straws but heater tube was in the sun while the other sensor was in the shade.  I'll report back but I could be at the end of my journey.

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1 hour ago, SJG said:

I took the readings with the spa off. 

Oh. I got the impression it was on. If the heater was on when you turned off the power the residual heat in the heater could cause the discrepancy. 

1 hour ago, SJG said:

Are you saying they should be roughly the same value

Yes.

1 hour ago, SJG said:

there could be a flow restriction.

One sensor is on the heater, the other is in the tub or pipe, usually suction side of the circ pump. If water is moving too slowly through the heater it will overheat in the heater. This difference between sensors will trigger an error, and may run the pumps to move more water and cool it down. Not sure on that system, but it is a common feature in many spa controls.

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So I ran some tests this morning.  

With nothing on I tested the two thermistors

Meter 1 blue wires 11.08, grey wire 7.82

Meter 2 blue wires 10.95, grey wire 7.86

Then I powered up and tested the two thermistors

Meter 1 blue wires 9.4, grey wire 7.67

Meter 2 blue wires 9.14, grey wire 7.62

After a short while running I tested again

Meter 1 blue wires 9.02, grey wire 7.52

Meter 2 blue wires 9.02, grey wire 7.51

 

So what.  Definitely a difference between the two.  If I was to leave it running longer would the difference drop to near zero.  Does the difference prior to running mean a problem with the thermisters or air in the heater tube.  Which would be quite odd at this point???  I am still intrigued by your restricted flow point.  How would I check that.  Unfortunately I cannot see through the piping and feeling for vibration/flow is hard so close to the pumps.

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Thanks for this.  Got that.  Curious though about what might be default settings of the board.  I think my real question is why none if the unplugging of various sensors from the board has stopped the jets from running like crazy.  Am I missing a reset switch or process somewhere.  Could the control panel battery be weak.  Is there anything in what is happening that would suggest removing the control panel battery and letting it reset.  Could we isolate issues with control panel and/or strap by unplugging it.  

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26 minutes ago, SJG said:

what might be default settings of the board. 

Not sure I understand what you mean. Temp, mode, and filter cycles will default if power is off for a while, but that has nothing to do with the pumps.

26 minutes ago, SJG said:

question is why none if the unplugging of various sensors from the board has stopped the jets from running like crazy.

The computer will run the pumps for various issues, including disparate sensor readings. Unplugging a sensor may trigger this response. That is not to say it isn't a board or topside issue, but those are expensive and sensors are cheap. So if it comes to guessing, try the cheap parts first. I prefer, and get paid, to know before I buy parts. What I know is your sensors are sending different readings to the board. I can't know any more until the sensors are working and we see what it does.

26 minutes ago, SJG said:

the control panel battery be weak.

What battery? The only "battery" in the system is for persistent memory, so you don't have to reset the time, temp, and filter cycles if the power is turned off for a while. 

26 minutes ago, SJG said:

we isolate issues with control panel and/or strap by unplugging it.  

The system will run automated functions with control panel unplugged. If the computer is responding to sensors it will still act the same, as it will if there is a board problem. It will identify if it is a control panel (topside) issue such as a shorted button. The topside is just buttons and a display, there is no logic in there.

Correction, I got you mixed up with another thread. On this system I do not know what is in the topside, but unplugging it will affect operation.

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