Dan Mo Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 Hello, I have a 2010 Caldera Paradise hot tub that came with a house we purchased a year ago. It was working fine until it started popping the circuit breaker (240 V, 30amp switch) about a week ago. The breaker pops after about 5 seconds after being turned on. I disconnected everything from the board and isolated the issue to the circuit pump, a Laing E5-NCHNNNN3W. Before purchasing a new circulation pump, I want to make sure I am on the right path. I have seen other postings about a bad heater and a bad circuit breaker. Does this sound like the circuit pump and is there any other troubleshooting I should perform? Appreciate everyone out there helping DYI people like me! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 If running the other pumps without the circulator pump didn't trip the breaker, the breaker is probably good and it is your circulator pump that is bad. I take it that you did individually test each component separately? Your pictures didn't show up either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted May 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 Correct, I did each test independently. I attached the photos again which seem to be working now. Thanks for the heads up. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 There is a small fuse for the circ pump if you follow the blk circ pump connection off the board. Might want to inspect it and/or bypass it and try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 @castletonia, is the 30 amp breaker the heater or pumps on this tub? The circ pump is an easy misdiagnosis, since other equipment relies on the circ to operate. 7 hours ago, Dan Mo said: Correct, I did each test independently. If you had everything but the circ disconnected and it tripped it is certainly the circ. But if you disconnected one thing at a time it could be the heater, ozone, or breaker as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 30 amp is everything except the heater. If disconnecting the circ pump allows the breaker to hold, then it’s the circ pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, castletonia said: 30 amp is everything except the heater. If disconnecting the circ pump allows the breaker to hold, then it’s the circ pump. So, the ozone will still run with an open pressure switch on a Watkins? That would be odd. It does eliminate the heater though. If you haven't disconnected the ozone try that before you order your circ pump. It is far more likely to trip the breaker than the circ and the timing (about 5 minutes) is right for the ozone circuit on most controls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 Hot Spring and Caldera are the only brands I have ever seen where bad circ pumps trip breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 2 hours ago, castletonia said: Hot Spring and Caldera are the only brands I have ever seen where bad circ pumps trip breakers. It is pretty rare in my experience, but it does seem to be a thing for them. Can't say that makes sense, but it does seem to be the case. I like to be sure before I start throwing parts at it. It probably is the circ, but wouldn't it suck to replace it just to find you really only needed an ozone check valve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 To make sure I am on the same page... When I disconnect the circ (red X) and leave pump 1 and 2 and ozone connected (green circles), the circuit pops after 5 seconds or so. It is an indication of a bad circ and not heater. Am I putting this all together correctly? Thanks again everyone! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 You disconnect the circ pump, leave pump 1, pump 2 and ozone connected and the breaker pops? That would mean the circ pump isn't the cause of the issue and it is probably the ozone generator. Disconnect the ozone generator, connect the circ pump and see if it still pops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 4 hours ago, cranbiz said: You disconnect the circ pump, leave pump 1, pump 2 and ozone connected and the breaker pops? That would mean the circ pump isn't the cause of the issue and it is probably the ozone generator. Disconnect the ozone generator, connect the circ pump and see if it still pops Agreed. I'm disconnecting everything BUT the circ pump. The spa should then start, run and heat. Leave it for 20 mins and if no pop power down and connect pump 1 and run for 20 mins then same pump 2 wait 20 mins and lastly ozone (can you tell I get paid by the hour...lol) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, CanadianSpaTech said: Agreed. I'm disconnecting everything BUT the circ pump. The spa should then start, run and heat. Leave it for 20 mins and if no pop power down and connect pump 1 and run for 20 mins then same pump 2 wait 20 mins and lastly ozone (can you tell I get paid by the hour...lol) Connected everything but the circ pump. Pump 1 and pump 2 ran and the tub heated. Ran for 20 minutes and no issues. As soon as I connect the circ pump, it pops. Confirmatory the issue is the circ pump? If so, I will purchase, install and report back. Regards, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 28, 2021 Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Dan Mo said: Connected everything but the circ pump. Pump 1 and pump 2 ran and the tub heated. Ok, you are not giving us clear info. For example, your heater can't run without the circ pump. 7 hours ago, cranbiz said: Disconnect the ozone generator, connect the circ pump and see if it still pops 3 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: I'm disconnecting everything BUT the circ pump. The spa should then start, run and heat. Leave it for 20 mins and if no pop power down and connect pump 1 and run for 20 mins then same pump 2 wait 20 mins and lastly ozone (can you tell I get paid by the hour...lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted May 28, 2021 Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Dan Mo said: the tub heated No circ how did it heat? The way a lot of systems start... Power gets turned on, Circ pump starts, pressure switch detects flow and then the heater fires. This can happen rather quickly in some systems. So I advise you try one more step and disconnect the heater and try it again with the circ connected just to be 100% sure it's not the heater. I would also by pass the circ pump fuse and connect the black circ pump wire directly to the circuit board. Then if it trips buy a new circ. @RDspaguyshould that fuse not be blowing instead of tripping the breaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted May 28, 2021 Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said: that fuse not be blowing instead of tripping the breaker? It's a gfci trip, not Amps. The heater is on a different breaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted May 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 14 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: No circ how did it heat? The way a lot of systems start... Power gets turned on, Circ pump starts, pressure switch detects flow and then the heater fires. This can happen rather quickly in some systems. So I advise you try one more step and disconnect the heater and try it again with the circ connected just to be 100% sure it's not the heater. I would also by pass the circ pump fuse and connect the black circ pump wire directly to the circuit board. Then if it trips buy a new circ. @RDspaguyshould that fuse not be blowing instead of tripping the breaker? I disconnected the heater and connected only the circ pump. The breaker still popped. Not sure why the tub seemed like it was heating without the circ. It went from 79 to 82 in 20 minutes with both pump1 and 2 on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted May 28, 2021 Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 Pump running on HI speed for 20 mins is shedding heat at 130+ degrees...x2 in an enclosed area 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted June 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 As an update... Just installed a new circ pump. When I removed the old circ pump and disassembled it, a seal must have gone bad because all the electronics were waterlogged. With the new circ pump, it no longer pops the breaker! I am getting 4 dashed lines flashing. I read this is likely an air bubble locking up the system. I have tried disconnecting the tube from the circ pump to get the air out, but still having the same issue. When I put my hand in front of the jet, I can feel water pushing out in bursts with the occasional sucking in before the dashed lines appear again. Pump 1 and 2 are working fine. Is this an air bubble and is there a better way to get it out than letting water out by the circ pump? Appreciate everything. I'm getting closer! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 If you have the spa frog system open the cap and pull that out. Otherwise force water back through that jet with your garden hose with the hot tub powered off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted June 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, castletonia said: If you have the spa frog system open the cap and pull that out. Otherwise force water back through that jet with your garden hose with the hot tub powered off. Did both and I didn't get the dashed lines as quickly... It doesn't seem like there is any flow and the temp light is flashing and after about 5 minutes I get the dashed lines again (was giving dashed lines after about 20 secs). Improvement but not there yet. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Is the new circ pump the same voltage as the old one? Did you have the filters removed? Bleeding out air at the circ pump is easy. Turn off power. Lay a rag or plastic bag over the circ to keep it dry in case you fumble the hose. Move the spring clamp on the front of the pump back along the hose an inch or so and remove the hose, blocking hose with one thumb and pump with the other. Release the air by slightly turning your thumb until water is coming steady from both sides, then stick the hose back on and put the clamp back. Done. It will take longer to remove the access panel than bleed the pump. I know it took longer to type the instructions with one thumb on my phone.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 6 hours ago, RDspaguy said: I know it took longer to type the instructions with one thumb on my phone.😉 👍🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Mo Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 I’m up and running! It was not an air lock. The fuse where the hot wire of the circ pump was blown. Put in a replacement and I’m good to go. Thanks to all of you for your help. I learned a lot! Dan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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