Jump to content

Dichlor then bleach method - Use of Other Chemicals


Recommended Posts

Hello,

I have some questions about using other products I have on hand and if they are compatible with the dichlor then bleach method.  First, an outline of where I am at the moment:

  • Second hot tub water fill and first using the dichlor then bleach method.  Now 1.5 weeks in.
  • 360 gal beachcomber tub
  • Using 10.3% sodium hypochlorite (pool bleach).  TA:70, CH 160, pH 7.6 
  • tub is used daily

On fresh fill, as per manufacturer recommendation, I added dichlor, carefree (non chlorine shock plus some other properties) and 13 tablespoons of soft (boric acid).  The MSDS sheets for carefree and soft are below.

Carefree:

image.png.3a5bc96785babee2bf89d41ff2951aec.png

Soft:

image.thumb.png.c7acb143f308acd4007fd662f5d993db.png

With the dichlor then bleach method I know using borates and MPS are recommended/suggested.  After 1 week I added 1.5 oz carefree (MPS) and am planning to continue to do this on a weekly basis.  Is this good practice?

With the 13 tablespoons of soft added at start up, I am thinking that I have enough borates in there now.  Is there any harm in adding more?  My wife likes the scent of the product.

Thanks in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • dashmer changed the title to Dichlor then bleach method - Use of Other Chemicals

Get some borate test strips (I recommend the LaMotte ones since they are MUCH easier to read than the strips from Taylor, Hach, and AquaChek. The Lamotte have a color change of rose pink to tan while the others are very close shades of tan that are rather inconclusive) You want borate at 30 to 50 ppm for a chlorine system. I initially bring it to 50 ppm and monitor biweekly to monthly (more often if you need to refill the tub frequently to top it off) and when it drops to 30 bump it back up to 50 ppm.  The product you are using is a mixture of borax and boric acid to create a pH neutral borate source. Borax by itself is alkaline and requires the addition of acid with its use  since it raises pH and boric acid will cause a pH drop..

Carefree is NOT MPS. MPS (sometimes called KMPS since K is the chemical symbol for potassium) is Potassium Monopersulfate. Your product is a mixture of of a peroxodisulfate oxidizer (which is a known irritant to the skin), and dry acid (sodium hydrogen sulfate is another name for sodium bisulfate AKA dry acid or pH down). NOt sure why the sodium sulfate is present but I suspect is is a filler since it merely adds sodium and sulfate ions. This product will lower your pH and TA. Not sure if it will have a greater or lesser impact than KMPS but I suspect that it will have a greater impact because of the inclusion of dry acid. I would use it with caution. Bottom line, if your CC is 1 ppm or less after shocking then you really don't need KMPS or any other non chlorine shock. Shock when CC is above 1 ppm. IF your CC is persistently higher then 1 ppm after shocking then the use of a non chlorine shock might prove helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks @waterbear.  I was hoping to hear from you.  Glad you corrected my belief that Carefree included MPS.  They advertise it as a 4 in 1 non-chlorine oxidizer, sequestering agent, biofilm disruptor and clarifier. I was not aware that there were multiple flavors of non chlorine shock.  It may be coincidence but my wife has complained about skin irritation a couple of times and now that I think about it, it may have been close to when it was treated with Carefree.  I think we will stop using the product and see if her issues disappear. Do these chemicals dissipate over time?  Is MPS less likely to irritate skin than the chemical in Carefree for when and if it is needed?  

On my first water fill and when using this product along with dichlor, I was constantly needing to raise my TA/pH so what you said makes sense.

Back to the borates, are there impacts of going beyond 50ppm?  And what would cause the tub to lose borate ppm other than carry out of water?  The lamotte test kit you mention is in scare supply, at least from companies in Canada or elsewhere that will ship economically.  I think I am close to 30 ppm by dead reckoning. 

 

Thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to try another borate test STRIP (not kit) you can but if you can get the LaMotte borate test STRIPS try to. IF you were using a biguinde/peroxide sanitizer system like Bacqa or Softsoak then you would need 50 to 80 ppm for the algae inhibiting effect. There should be no problem going a bit over 50 ppm but you don't want it too high because it becomes a part of the TA and it needs to be in the right range for the best pH buffer effect. Borate is like CYA, it is lost mainly by splashout. Test it every 2 to 4 weeks depending on how often you need to top off the water from splashout. Evaporation does not remove it and in fact can cause tested levels to rise until water is added to compensate for the evaporation. However, evaporation is usually a non issue in a covered tub.

As far as multifunction products a good rule of thumb is if it says 4 in 1 (or 3 in 1 or 5 in 1 or any other combination) STAY AWAY. They often cause more problems than they correct. Sufate will build up in the water and the only way to remove it is by water change. MPS, Dry acid, and your 4 in 1 product all add sufate to the water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

For those in Canada, i was finally able to find the LaMotte 3017-G test strips from this company, who will ship to Canada.
LaMotte 3017-G Insta-Test Borate Test Strips for Pools and Spas (25 Tests)
www.LoveYourHotTub.com - price including shipping was 29.90 USD.

Also, today I purchased the Taylor Technologies K2006C from Walmart Canada.
price was 174.47 + Shipping + Tax = 226.09.

Hopefully this is all the testing materials I will need.. I plan on using the dichlor/bleach method. I have a feeling my CYA amount is sky high as i have been using the Beachcomber Care Free Boost (sanitizer) since setting up my new hottub on May 14.  In just under a month i have gone through about 800 grams, I use the tub daily for 30-45 mins, and a couple times a day on the weekends.  My water is very clear and i have had no issues, but i have been noticing that even when adding a capful (26g) at night after use, its testing at very low chlorine the next day.

Beachcomber recommends TA of 100-120.  I know i have to lower my alkalinity a bit on the dichlor/bleach regimen.  I'm going to target for about 60 ppm from what i have read.

Im still a bit confused by MPS.  Im not sure what it is or if i need it ?

These forums are wonderful.. Thank you all (esp waterbear) for your wisdom and sharing of knowledge.  I may have to ask a few more questions but i feel a lot more confident now taking care of my tub and keeping the water safe for use.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DarylA, 

 

Sounds like you and I are on the identical path only I was where you are a couple months ago.  My first water was run on beachcomber advice and chemicals.  Dichlor then bleach method is working great for me.  If you do go that route, get yourself a shotstigo bottle from Amazon for dosing the chlorine. Best $20 I have spent on the tub.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...