tiredofhacks Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I have a Tiger River Sumatran spa. 2 years ago, the jets stopped working. I hired a company to come out and they said the topside control failed and no replacement was available. It required a new spa pack and heater. They replaced the control panel with a Balboa 54664 and the heater is a HydroQuip 26-C3160-2S. Everything has been working fine for about 2 years then my renter noticed a leak. I opened the panel and noticed it was coming from the high limit switch so I moved it and was able to pull it right out. The sensor had broken from the housing mount. Easy fix, right? I ordered the Watkins 39525 replacement part but the end does not clip into my circuit board. After some research, i decided I needed Balboa 32016 sensor assembly kit because I figured at this point, I'd just replace the entire sensor kit since the end would clip into my circuit board. I received the part and the Sensor Housing Mount & Heater Sensor Mount Gasket were missing from the package (essentially, those were the only parts I needed because the old sensor still works). I found a local hot tub parts store with the old sensor and the 2 parts I purchased because they had the M7 mount kit. They said they had never seen the sensor mount that has been in the heater before in 18 years of fixing hot tubs and they have no idea where to get the housing mount (the only part I need). The sensor didn't fit into the M7 housing. I can't find anything that looks like that housing mount on the internet and it is so frustrating. Has anyone seen this housing/mounting before and know where I can get it? The control switch has the same housing and has not broken...yet. I'm completely stumped. This should have been an easy swap out. I Hopefully someone can help me! I've attached some pictures of the old sensor that has been working and the housing mount that allowed it to screw in to the heater (that is the part that broke off). Thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 So, the metal threads screw in to the plastic piece that the threads broke off of? And you got the plastic threads out of the heater? But the balboa mount doesn't fit those threads in the heater? I would bring both threaded parts to HD and find a reducer/adapter that fits. In 26 years, I am not sure if I have seen that mounting piece either. Post a pic of the heater threads with the balboa mount next to it for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Thanks RDspaguy! I can't post the heater threads and the balboa mount next to each other. I thought I could splice the old sensor circuit fitting into the new sensor part. So I did that and filled up the hot tub. It started but I got a HH error...I now know I can't splice sensor wires. The hot tub is still filled with water with the 39525 part holding it all in without a drip or leak. The Watkins part (39525) fits like a glove. It is the perfect thread fit into the heater but it doesn't plug in to my circuit board. The Balboa part 32016 plugs in to my circuit board but does not thread correctly into the heater. If I had the Watkins part 39525 with a different circuit board end, I'd be gold. But it doesn't seem like they make that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmythegreek Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Any reason you cant splice the connector that fits your board onto the Watkins one. I believe they are all 2 wire sensors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 And I'm a little concerned (even though I've been assured it is) that the 32016 isn't the correct sensor. The old sensor and the 32016 are completely different sizes (32016 on left). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Jimmythegreek - I tried that and got an HH error. And since there was no problem with the sensor (only a leak) I'm pretty sure the HH error was caused by the splicing. This morning at the spa parts warehouse I was told you could never splice sensor wires. Is that not true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 You generally can't cross brands of sensors. They are all calibrated to the board they go with. I have not done a direct cross-reference on all brands, but I can tell you there are differences between balboa and watkins. You need the type that goes with your board. It is odd that they used balboa controls and a hydroquip heater. Perhaps the resistance is the same on those sensors. Are the hydroquip sensors still available? You might have to buy a new heater assembly. Get a balboa this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 RDspaguy yes, the hydroquip sensor is in the high limit slot right now keeping the water in but it will not plug into the circuit board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 You posted a Balboa topside part number but what balboa spa pack did they install? Can you please post photos of the pack the circuit board and the schematic on the inside cover. I'm so confused They replaced the spa pack and topside 2 years ago with a Balboa M7 spa pack and a balboa topside but were able to use the original Hydroquip heater and were also able to use the original sensor set and somehow attach them to the Balboa circuit board and it worked...for 2 years? Also do you have both broken pieces of plastic. Can it be epoxy back together with some plastic weld (2 part epoxy) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 3 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: I'm so confused Right? I'd really like to make a joke of that, but I am too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 You're so confused?!?! Imagine me! The plastic piece broke and I thought, "What a simple fix. No errors, just a simple piece that broke. I'll order the part, re-screw it back in, plug it into the circuit board...a dummy could do this!" Not so much. Now that I'm deeper into it, I don't even know what sensor was working in the hydroquip (because it's clearly not the Balboa 32016 or Watkins 39525) but I'm willing to put it back in if I can find a plastic adapter. I went to HD this morning and the associate told me there's nothing this small in pvc. He gave me brass. Said it may break in a year or two because "brass doesn't like the chemicals". Seriously. Something tells me (a) don't put brass fittings in a hot tub and (b) don't put a brass fitting around a temperature sensor. Am I wrong about that? Attached are pictures of the circuit board. I'm not sure if there's only supposed to be one, but there is an additional tiny rectangle circuit board off to the side that the high limit sensors plug in to. I put an arrow to it in the photo. I can't get my camera to focus on that. And unfortunately, I don't have the other piece of broken plastic. Literally, I thought this was going to be an unscrew, fix, re-screw back in. Stupid to not keep it, just in case. I will in the future, I'm learning. HD guy said the threads into the sensor were 1/8" female and more than likely 1/4" male going out and threading into the spa (again, i don't know because I don't have that side of the other part and the 39525 is screwed into the hot tub now holding the water in). Sounds like I'm just waiting for another issue the way it's patched together? If so, what heater do i get that will connect and play nice with all these parts. I'd almost rather spend $200 and make it right than pay the company who did this another $200 to come out and put it back together with duct tape and bubble gum. Because it will break again and I'll be at their mercy AGAIN! Ugh! My question is, if the topside control failed and they had to get a new pack and heater (as stated on the invoice), why didn't they get a spa pack, topside control and heater that all worked together? Why is the sensor a special part? Shouldn't all 3 of those parts been new and worked together without any customization? Like my username says, I'm tired of hacks! If you're a hack and it's your own spa, go ahead and Macgyver it together...I mean, it's only electricity and water, right? But if you're a BUSINESS and a customer pays to fix something, fix it right!!! I'll get off my soapbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Could I just use the Watkins part i purchased 39525 and use this adapter to plug into the new board? I can't imagine it would be this easy. If it was, why didn't the spa company do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Golf clap for them getting it running and working for 2 years. I am still at a loss and need to know how this magic was done. The Balboa packs usually come with the heater attached and it is for 2" plumbing and the 2 sensors sit at each end of the heater tube. Your plumbing is 3/4" and they needed to make it work. Now whatever that magic black box is it is somehow rigged to make the broken sensor work with the Balboa system. I need to know and see more about that little black box please. @RDspaguy Thoughts? 3 hours ago, RDspaguy said: Right? I'd really like to make a joke of that, but I am too. First thing in the morning right after my meds.. wink wink...read it like 20 times and it hurt my brain a little...Still confused but only mildly now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, tiredofhacks said: brass doesn't like the chemicals Or low ph. And it will last a few years at worst, and 20 or so at best. 1 hour ago, tiredofhacks said: an additional tiny rectangle circuit board off to the side that the high limit sensors plug in to. 26 years, never seen that. 1 hour ago, tiredofhacks said: why didn't they get a spa pack, topside control and heater that all worked together? That is the question. I'd be curious to hear the answer... 1 hour ago, tiredofhacks said: only electricity and water, right? 🤣 1 hour ago, tiredofhacks said: Could I just use the Watkins part i purchased https://spacare.com/balboasensorresistancevalues.aspx https://www.backyardplus.com/proddetail.php?prod=38416 Balboa sensor is 16139.91 ohms at 104*. Watkins (hot springs) is 5000 ohms at 104*. They are not compatible. Period. Likely, noting but a balboa sensor will work in a balboa control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 Post a pic of the equipment area so we can see what's going on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 I went to the backyardplus website above and it asked for the serial # of my spa. I entered it and it said unknown error. I googled my spa's serial # and it doesn't exist...that I can find. Am I just going crazy at this point? I'm trying to get a picture of the equipment. I have a million pictures on my phone but not a single one showing the whole picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletonia Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 It's a valid serial number, 2003 Sumatran. Not sure that really matters though since the Balboa / Hydroquip parts are aftermarket. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hydroquip just repackaged Balboa with a longer parts warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Nope. Hydroquip makes their own line of digital, partial digital, and analog controls. https://hottubwarehouse.com/collections/hydroquip-control-systems They do have a system that uses balboa electronics, but it also uses balboa sensors. https://spacare.com/HydroQuipWaterProVS520SZControlSystemWithM7Technology.aspx This control box has a brushed aluminum box enclosure. It has the same foot print and uses the same heater assembly as the Balboa VS Systems, it would be a direct drop in and a great alternative to the Balboa VS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Okay, great! Here are 2 pictures of the entire equipment area and a better picture of the the little black box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Wow. That is a hydroquip pack, and a hot springs heater. Never seen that before. The small board must be an adapter of some sort. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hydroquip.com/Owners%20Manuals/2019_Parts_Catalog_Rev_5_online.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwibhOSTkrHvAhUaXc0KHSUMD0IQFjAEegQIChAC&usg=AOvVaw26CxrgWR2VjZkYGlCzHntc This is the entire hydroquip catalog (only took 15 minutes to download). Turns out, they have ripped off everybody, from balboa and gecko to watkins. They sell that heater, and sensors for it. Didn't see the adapter doohickey, but it could be in there. Does the temp sensor also plug into it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Man, they have D1, Vita, Cal, you name it. The hot springs thermistors are listed under the gecko section. Still can't find the adapter. Does it have a part # on that little board. The guy who did this is obviously a hydroquip guy. He's probably your best bet for finding that plastic adapter or new sensor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hydroquip has changed! I haven't used anything of theirs in many years, and don't order their catalog. Might have to get one in paper form. (Yeah, I'm old). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 yes, the temp sensor plugs in below the hi limit on that black box. I tried getting my big moonhead in there to see if there's a part # and can't, plus it's dark. For the high limit/temp sensors, yes! That is what i originally purchased PT# 34-01395-K. the ends don't fit into the black box. So basically I own a Frankenstein spa and I'm tethered to this guy forever? Because if something as easy as switching out a high limit switch is this difficult, the future is not looking rosy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Well, you could try calling hydroquip and ask them. In your pic there is a sensor wire that looks to have been spliced and wrapped in electrical tape. Was that you or him? I am curious where they put the balboa topside. Can you post a pic of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiredofhacks Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 The splice was me (from when I tried splicing the old circuit board connector with the new Hydroquip high limit switch - as i said, no bueno). What do you mean by balboa topside? Is this the picture you're looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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