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Nature 2 validation/confirmation method


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Anybody know how to confirm/validate that the Nature 2 is working?

  • I have mine installed on the housing of an outlet filter my inflatable hot tub (coleman saluspa tahiti ~177gal @ 80%) 
  • I performed the initial dichlor shock at fill
  • Used the tub three times within the past week
  • There are things floating on the surface but overall the water doesn't seem cloudy
  • Free Chlorine reads ZERO
  • After a week MPS reads ZERO (I only added NC shock after the my first dip)
  • I have both MPS and pool test strips. 
  • ALK is at 80 and pH 7.2-7.6
  • I don't feel sick, no itchy eyes, and minimal scratching of skin which I believe is nothing out of ordinary especially since we are in the dry cold season.

Now since I have MPS strips, I'll probably test more often to gage a better understanding of how quickly that changes, but I really am curious how to validate this Nature product, especially since I am running at 0 FC.

 

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Test strips are not reliable.

High chlorine or mps can bleach out your strip, at least on a chlorine test. Not sure on mps.

I suggest you read the thread about the dichlor/bleach method in the water chemistry section. Also, recent posts by @waterbear, who covered this in another thread a few days ago. In fact, if you click on his name then scroll down I believe you will see a list of posts he has made. Reading those will give you a complete education in spa water chemistry.

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There are 2 ways to use the N2 spa stick that are EPA approved:

Silver/MPS/and HOT tub water (100 degrees F). are a sanitizer system  along with an initial and then a weekly dichlor shock to about 12 ppm (yes, I know the instruction pamphlet says as needed but I would do it weekly).

Silver/low chlorine THiS is my preferred method for several reasons but the foremost is that MPS is a sensitizer and is known to cause contact dermatitis while chlorine is not a sensitizer and is used to treat Eczema, even in babies (google bleach bath which is a bath with a FC level of around 50 ppm)

In this method the FC level is kept around 2 ppm.

I will state that I am not a fan of N2 because silver is ineffective against viruses, has very low kill times, and the low levels of chlorine are quickly depleted by the bather load vs small amount of water. The average person involuntarily releases about 10─25 mg of fecal matter in pool/spa water no matter how clean they think they are. The average person also involuntarily urinates about 5─10 mL in pool/spa water. Then there is sweat that is often profuse in a tub because of the high temperature. FUN FACT: Sweat and urine are almost identical chemically. If the MPS recipe is used be aware that it is only effective at high water temperatures and not as effective as chlorine.

17 hours ago, Brotha Hayz said:

minimal scratching of skin which I believe is nothing out of ordinary especially since we are in the dry cold season

This could also be a reaction to the MPS (likely if everywhere on the skin that was exposed to the water) or could indicate 'hot tub itch' which is a skin infection caused by pseudomonas and is common when sanitizer levels are not high enough to destroy pathogens (possible but it also would cause red bumps on the skin, usually localized to a few areas), In my experience I have seen this happen more with N2 than with a chlorine or bromine system.

 

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21 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Test strips are not reliable.

High chlorine or mps can bleach out your strip, at least on a chlorine test. Not sure on mps.

I suggest you read the thread about the dichlor/bleach method in the water chemistry section. Also, recent posts by @waterbear, who covered this in another thread a few days ago. In fact, if you click on his name then scroll down I believe you will see a list of posts he has made. Reading those will give you a complete education in spa water chemistry.

Thank you for the info and also tagging them in - I forgot to mention that I also have a cheap home depot (HDX brand) liquid water test kit as well - they've all been pretty similar even with the pool store. Unfortunately the MPS is only in test strip form, at least what i've seen after searching, at least i know it has gone down after an extended period of not adding and it went back up after adding NC shock, so maybe some validity to it.

I've read the dichlor post previously and am definitely considering following that regimen if I run into trouble with the N2.

11 hours ago, waterbear said:

There are 2 ways to use the N2 spa stick that are EPA approved:

Silver/MPS/and HOT tub water (100 degrees F). are a sanitizer system  along with an initial and then a weekly dichlor shock to about 12 ppm (yes, I know the instruction pamphlet says as needed but I would do it weekly).

Silver/low chlorine THiS is my preferred method for several reasons but the foremost is that MPS is a sensitizer and is known to cause contact dermatitis while chlorine is not a sensitizer and is used to treat Eczema, even in babies (google bleach bath which is a bath with a FC level of around 50 ppm)

In this method the FC level is kept around 2 ppm.

I will state that I am not a fan of N2 because silver is ineffective against viruses, has very low kill times, and the low levels of chlorine are quickly depleted by the bather load vs small amount of water. The average person involuntarily releases about 10─25 mg of fecal matter in pool/spa water no matter how clean they think they are. The average person also involuntarily urinates about 5─10 mL in pool/spa water. Then there is sweat that is often profuse in a tub because of the high temperature. FUN FACT: Sweat and urine are almost identical chemically. If the MPS recipe is used be aware that it is only effective at high water temperatures and not as effective as chlorine.

This could also be a reaction to the MPS (likely if everywhere on the skin that was exposed to the water) or could indicate 'hot tub itch' which is a skin infection caused by pseudomonas and is common when sanitizer levels are not high enough to destroy pathogens (possible but it also would cause red bumps on the skin, usually localized to a few areas), In my experience I have seen this happen more with N2 than with a chlorine or bromine system.

 

Thank you very much for the thorough information provided, I am scared now - hopefully nobody shows up with the clap or Hep. Fortunately this is installed in my small inflatable hot tub and for now its just been me bathing. I don't bathe until its at 104.

I just got out and don't feel the itchiness (MPS is at a good level now).

Definitely will consider the chlorine regimen if expecting a party or in summer months when I'm sweating more.

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I always say that test strips are very accurate until you open the package. 😉 

The thing is, they react to water. Any water. From any source. So if you open the bottle of strips over your steaming spa and stick a wet finger in to grab one then put the cap on, every strip in the bottle will react to that moisture. Then you have a bottle of used test strips that will not give you an accurate reading. Throw in instructions that involve dipping for x seconds, shaking off or not, holding horizontal, reading after x seconds but before y seconds, comparing to a chart while facing northeast in the morning and southwest in the evening, etc. and you have a recipe for inaccuracies.

Sometimes you have no choice, I admit, but be aware of the possibilty before you go dumping in half a bottle of anything.

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7 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

I always say that test strips are very accurate until you open the package. 😉 

The thing is, they react to water. Any water. From any source. So if you open the bottle of strips over your steaming spa and stick a wet finger in to grab one then put the cap on, every strip in the bottle will react to that moisture. Then you have a bottle of used test strips that will not give you an accurate reading. Throw in instructions that involve dipping for x seconds, shaking off or not, holding horizontal, reading after x seconds but before y seconds, comparing to a chart while facing northeast in the morning and southwest in the evening, etc. and you have a recipe for inaccuracies.

Sometimes you have no choice, I admit, but be aware of the possibilty before you go dumping in half a bottle of anything.

Yeah my friend always tells me how I need to pickup a taylor kit, but my strips and cheap $12 HDX kit from home depot is doing me well for now. I am normally careful with the strips - I take a sample from a cup instead of straight from the spa/pool. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 8:45 AM, Brotha Hayz said:

trips and cheap $12 HDX kit from home depot is doing me well for now

NO, it's not. Once you use a good test kit you will understand. (I recommend Taylor K-2006, not the K-2005, if you go to dichlor/bleach or use N2 with only chlorine/dichlor). How much did your spa cost? Now consider if less than $100 US is too much to pay for what is the most important spa accessory you can have. Your water chemistry is as good as the testing you do.

As far as pool store testing, this is an area that I know quite a bit about since I had worked in the retail end of the business for several years. Most pool/spa store employees are not really trained and rely on the computer printout to tell you what you need to do. Some testing product companies do offer a certification course for proper Some systems are not reliable, particularly the ones that use strips in a reader, since strips themselves are not reliable. Strips are precise (they tend to produce repeatable results when multiple tests are done on the same sample) but not always accurate (results that are close to the actual value of the parameter being tested).  The accuracy varies from the different tests on the strips. Some, such at the Total Hardness, are totally useless, since the parameter we are interested in is Calcium Hardness, which strips cannot test. Strips also usually have way to wide a resolution between test points. There is a big difference between 40 ppm, 80 ppm, and 120 ppm TA IF you are lucky enough to have a strip that does not jump from 40 ppm to 120 ppm, which some of the known brands do. Resolution for this test should be 10 ppm, which can only be achieved with a titration test such as Taylor's. Pool store colorimeters that use liquid or power reagents can produce results with this resolution IF the sanitizer levels are not too high because this causes bleachout of the indicator used. The Taylor test uses a blended indicator that helps alleviate this problem and will give accurate results even at shock levels of sanitizer

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