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On 1/19/2021 at 1:43 AM, waterbear said:

shocking to 10 times the cc to reach breakpoint is one of the fallacies still being taught to CPOs. Here is a quote that you might find interesting:

"To oxidize monochloramine, it takes from 0.5 to 1.0 times the CC level.  Even if the CC were urea, it takes 2-3 times the CC level, not 10x.  Of course, the higher the FC level the faster reactions occur, but there is no magic 10x amount." - Richard Falk"

The above quote is from the Orenda Technologies blog on breakpoint chlorination. Richard Falk is chem geek on this and several other online pool and spa forums. I forget if this was originally hashed out on Pool Forum or TroubleFreePool forum several years back but I was part of the orginal discussion. Also, the level of CYA needs to be taking into consideration since the higher the CYA present the higher you will need to raise the FC to oxidize the combined chloramines. If CYA is low the breakpoint level is much lower than if the CYA is high. For example, for a CYA of 30 ppm you would need to shock to 12 ppm but if the CYA is 50 ppm you would need to shock to 20 ppm to achieve the same results.

Could you look below and advise the last few questions I have Thank you 

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shocking to 10 times the cc to reach breakpoint is one of the fallacies still being taught to CPOs. Here is a quote that you might find interesting: "To oxidize monochloramine, it takes from 0.5

What test kit are you using?  I do it old school. I use only liquid chlorine amd I add CYA with stabilizer powder. Once you get 30cya just focus on FC levels. Ph down ahould bring it in range easily a

Hello DayDay1:  The purges you performed on your hot tub will now start paying you dividends.  The people that make postings on this forum are a godsend to new hot tub and pool owners.  You did the ri

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:49 AM, dayday1 said:

Thinking 20 Mule over Boric Acid because of adding sulfates, thoughts??

Where did you get the idea that boric acid adds sulfate? Boric acid is basically acpH neutral way to add borate (actually it will cause a very slight pH drop initially but that will climb up with aeration). Sufates are added by dry acid and MPS. Dry acid is sodium biSULFATE, MPS is potassium monoperSULFATE. Don't worry about borate until the other problems are solved. It's the last step.

On 1/19/2021 at 7:49 AM, dayday1 said:

Went to Lesley's pool store and gave them water. They have a computer system that automatically runs all the numbers somehow. Anyway they were still showing my PH as high where I was at a 7.6/7.7 ish. Went to another pool store who does it old school and they got the same thing I did. After 24 hours numbers below 

Did they put a strip in a machine or possibly put water on a disc and put that in a machine? I suspect this is caused by the pH indicator their system uses doesn't contain a chlorine inhibitor. Keep reading, I explain more below.

 

On 1/18/2021 at 5:44 PM, dayday1 said:

FC = 4 to 5

CC = 4 to 5 

This makes no sense. Are you sure you don't mean TC and CC? If those are the same number you have NO free chlorine and it means you have a high chlorine demand, probably from something that died in the tub or the plumbing. The fact that you have done so many purges and the brown stuff is still coming out sort of reinforces this. Something is using all your free chlorine and until you get rid of it and the FC is holding and the CC is dropping you have problems.

 

On 1/18/2021 at 5:44 PM, dayday1 said:

FC = 4.7.                                             

TC= 4.17.         

FC can't be higher than TC. FC + CC = TC or TC-FC=CC. If you are testing with FAS-DPD (drop counting test with a color change from pink to colorless) then you are directly testing FC and CC. If you are using DPD (comparator with red color blocks) then you are testing FC and TC and find your CC by subtracing the FC from the TC . FC will ALWAYS be less than or equal to TC. If you are testing  any other way (strips, with or without a meter) then DON'T.

 

On 1/19/2021 at 7:49 AM, dayday1 said:

TA = 40 / 50 ish 4 drops pink 5 drops red 

With any titration test (drop count) add drops until the last drop does not produce any additional color change then don't count the last drop. IN this example if you added a 6th drop and there was not any more change of color then you would be at 50 ppm TA, if it did but the 7th drop didn't the you would be at 60 ppm TA.

 

On 1/19/2021 at 7:49 AM, dayday1 said:

Anyway they were still showing my PH as high where I was at a 7.6/7.7 ish.

This could be an interference from the 5 ppm chlorine level depending on whether their pH reagent has a chlorine inhibitor. Taylor's does and will read pH accurately up to 10 ppm or higher chlorine. Most top at 3-5 ppm chlorine and then read high because the phenol red indicator converts to chlorophenol read which reads a pH range of 4.8 to 6.7 with the same color changes.

On 1/19/2021 at 7:49 AM, dayday1 said:

Where am I trying to keep my chlorine numbers for use? Is 5 safe to go into? Is 10? 

If you maintain a 30 ppm CYA then 4-6 ppm is a good range to stay within, However, if you go higher (up to about 10 ppm) that's not a problem.

 

There is definitely some problem with your testing procedues. Some of your numbers just don't make sense. Please tell us EXACTLY you are testing with and find out what systems the pool stores are using. From the little you've said I suspect that one is using LaMotte's Spin Disc and the other a Taylor Waterlab.

On 1/13/2021 at 2:07 PM, dayday1 said:

Thanks guys I actually bought the K-2006 kit and got a comparator out of a 2005 kit that had chlorine side. 

Why? If you have a K-2006 you have NO NEED for a K-2005 comparator. The FAS-DPD test in the K-2006 is far superior. Exactly which kit do you have?

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15 hours ago, waterbear said:

Where did you get the idea that boric acid adds sulfate? Boric acid is basically acpH neutral way to add borate (actually it will cause a very slight pH drop initially but that will climb up with aeration). Sufates are added by dry acid and MPS. Dry acid is sodium biSULFATE, MPS is potassium monoperSULFATE. Don't worry about borate until the other problems are solved. It's the last step.

Did they put a strip in a machine or possibly put water on a disc and put that in a machine? I suspect this is caused by the pH indicator their system uses doesn't contain a chlorine inhibitor. Keep reading, I explain more below.

 

This makes no sense. Are you sure you don't mean TC and CC? If those are the same number you have NO free chlorine and it means you have a high chlorine demand, probably from something that died in the tub or the plumbing. The fact that you have done so many purges and the brown stuff is still coming out sort of reinforces this. Something is using all your free chlorine and until you get rid of it and the FC is holding and the CC is dropping you have problems.

 

FC can't be higher than TC. FC + CC = TC or TC-FC=CC. If you are testing with FAS-DPD (drop counting test with a color change from pink to colorless) then you are directly testing FC and CC. If you are using DPD (comparator with red color blocks) then you are testing FC and TC and find your CC by subtracing the FC from the TC . FC will ALWAYS be less than or equal to TC. If you are testing  any other way (strips, with or without a meter) then DON'T.

 

With any titration test (drop count) add drops until the last drop does not produce any additional color change then don't count the last drop. IN this example if you added a 6th drop and there was not any more change of color then you would be at 50 ppm TA, if it did but the 7th drop didn't the you would be at 60 ppm TA.

 

This could be an interference from the 5 ppm chlorine level depending on whether their pH reagent has a chlorine inhibitor. Taylor's does and will read pH accurately up to 10 ppm or higher chlorine. Most top at 3-5 ppm chlorine and then read high because the phenol red indicator converts to chlorophenol read which reads a pH range of 4.8 to 6.7 with the same color changes.

If you maintain a 30 ppm CYA then 4-6 ppm is a good range to stay within, However, if you go higher (up to about 10 ppm) that's not a problem.

 

There is definitely some problem with your testing procedues. Some of your numbers just don't make sense. Please tell us EXACTLY you are testing with and find out what systems the pool stores are using. From the little you've said I suspect that one is using LaMotte's Spin Disc and the other a Taylor Waterlab.

Why? If you have a K-2006 you have NO NEED for a K-2005 comparator. The FAS-DPD test in the K-2006 is far superior. Exactly which kit do you have?

Two pool stores doing a drop test and one using a computer kinda thing that is supposed to be 98% accurate. As for names of kits I am not sure. 

However they all said my numbers were overall good except for the computer one that said my PH was high. 

I am no longer getting any brown stuff out of the Hot Tub there is a slight oily haze in the water I am not sure what that is. Kinda looks slimy and clear like spit or snot consistency.

As for my testing kit I am using the K 2006 but I am using the R001 and R002 to test chlorine which today read 3 ppm, I added R003 and it read 3 also which is basically the way it has read every time I have done it.  When I add the R003 I don't get a higher color on the comparator its basically the same color. 

That said in the days of testing my Chlorine levels only go down very little from the day before so I am not sure I am understanding what you mean in excessive FC use. I tested yesterday at a 4 and today at a 3. My water is clear as a bell other than the slight slimy stuff mentioned above that I only noticed today in one seating area of the tub. All my jets are working all my suction areas are working. I have one suction area that doesn't suck but according to manufacturer who I spoke with today said that is a back up in case one of the others get clogged. 

How would I check and see if something is dead in it??? And if there was wouldn't you think a jet or line would be not working? 

You are correct on the Boric Acid I read that wrong in another article and mixed the two up. Sorry 

I will try to find out what testing method they use. And again if you could a phone call would be helpful. Thank you  

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Hi, Semi-unrelated question for dayday1 et al.:

I noticed you reference having CYA levels of 8, 11 an 12. How are you measuring this, especially to this accuracy? The only test I'm aware of that's close is in the Taylor K-1720 kit, and it's only in increments of 5 when below 20 ppm. 

 

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20 minutes ago, meh64 said:

Hi, Semi-unrelated question for dayday1 et al.:

I noticed you reference having CYA levels of 8, 11 an 12. How are you measuring this, especially to this accuracy? The only test I'm aware of that's close is in the Taylor K-1720 kit, and it's only in increments of 5 when below 20 ppm. 

 

the numbers given above were all from the one pool company that does the computer testing. I had the other 2 pool companies to it also with their drop test one said 20 and one said 15. My test in my K2006 when the cylinder is full its at 30 and I can still see the black dot at the bottom so I know its less than 30. But that makes sense because since the fresh refill I put in 6 teaspoons upon fill and 4 teaspoons one other time, and 1 teaspoon twice on two separate days. 

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31 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

Just spoke with Taylor to the guy who wrote the instructions for these kits. After the FAS DPD test he told me my CC was at 4 and I needed to add 4ppm of Chlorine to take care of the CC. 

We discussed about my reading of FC and how each day I test I am within 1 to 2 ppm of chlorine from the day before. i.e. I get a 5 today tomorrow it would be a 3 or 4ish. If something was using my chlorine that FC number would change. So he didn't think anything was eating my chlorine or demanding it. 

Did I understand him correctly? 

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First thing I want to clarify is whether you are testing with DPD (3 liquid reagents and a comparator with red color blocks) which means you have a K-2005, which is what I suspect, or whether you are testing with a powder and a liquid, count drop until the color changes from pink to colorless, add 5 drops of a different liquid reagent and titrate again with the first liquid looking for the same color change which means you are using a K-2006 which you say you have but your descriptions of your testing are the DPD test in the K-2005. You also are not computing the CC properly. Once we determine which kit you have we can get you on the right track. There are a lot of things in your posts that do not add up. I am willing to try and help you but I need to know what I am working with.

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Is that you testing? IF so there are several mistakes. First, don't use the DPD test from the 2005. Use a 10 ml sample for the FAS-DPD test, only use 1 scoop of DPD powder if the pink color is holding,  them each drop of titrant will be equivalent to .5 ppm instead of .2 ppm. This is more than enough resolution for this test. You don't need to determine chlorine levels to .2 ppm, .5 ppm is fine!

The reason the DPD test from the 2005 is not working is because the DPD is bleaching out because of chlorine levels at or above 10 ppm. and you need to do dilutions on your sample which is a PITA. Trust the results from the FAS-DPD test. Also when doing the FAS-DPD test you need to swirl the sample after EACH DROP.

The FAS-DPD test is much more reliable since it does not have the potential to read low when chlorine is actually high, which can and does happen with the DPD test and it is happening to you! When using the K-2005 DPD test it is impossible for the color of the TC test to be lighter than the color of the FC test UNLESS the DPD is beaching out because of high chlorine levels. Since you don't have a K-2005 you don't have the instructions on how to dllute your sample (which is more work than using FAD-DPD, trust me on this! Stick to the FAS-DPD test with a 10 ml sample, 1 scoop of DPD powder,and count each drop as .5 ppm

IF you want to do a a quick check on total chlorine and pH before breaking out the 'big kit' get a K-1000 OTO/oH test kit. OTO will only test total chlorine but it is bulletproof and will not bleach out. It can also give you an estimate of very high total chlorine levels with a the color changing from the shades of yellow on the comparator to a deeper level at around 10-15 ppm then orange about 25 ppm to red/redbrown at 35ppm and above which is useful when shocking. ThepH test in this kit is a wider range test with a lower resolution compared to the 2005/2006 pH test and uses a small comparator and a different reagent. This test is useful as a quick daily check before using the tub as long as you do a full set of tests weekly with the big kit (CH and CYA can be done biweekly to monthly once things are balanced and stable.)

Bottom line, there is testing error on your part and your testing methodology is not the best. For all titrations swirl after each drop (or use a magnetic stirrer, Taylor has one that is not very expensive). When titrating keep adding drops until the last drop does not produce additional color change and then don't count the last drop, use a 10 ml sample for the FSD-DPD test, 25 ml sample for TA and CH test unless the CH is very high (above 350 to 400 ppm) then use the 10 ml sample, 10 drops of calcium buffer, 3 drops of indicator, and count each drop of titrant as 25 ppm CH. Don't shake the pH test isnce the aeration created can acutally cause your pH to read higher than it is. Instead invert the capped comparator 4 or 5 times. Same thing after each drop of acid or base demand reagent. Let's get your testing methodology improved and get a good set of test results (using the FAS-DPD test) and we can take it from there. Forget the pool store testing, you don't need it!

Next step, please test your water with the K-2006 (10 ml sample for the chlorine tests, 25 ml sample for the TA and CH tests), don't bother with the K-2005 DPD test, and post the full set of results (FC, .

Also, I am curious why you got the K-2005 DPD test and comparator when you purchased your K-2006. DId the store talk you into it? It's not needed, more difficult to read, particularly for men who have more difficulty determining close shades of red than women, and is prone to beachout, which you have been experiencing. Also you need to subtract the FC from the TC to get your CC while in the FSD-DPD test FC levels up to about 20 ppm are not a problem, you get a direct reading for both FC and CC without having to do math, and the resolution of the test is much higher (.5 ppm with a  10 ml sample and.2 ppm with a 25 ml sample (which some Health Departments might require for commercial installations under some circumstances but is not really necessary at home unless you are doing a low chlorine/metal ion system and even then it's probably overkill.

After reviewing both your videos the only thing you are doing wrong is using the DPD test, which is the problem, and not believing the FAS-DPD test which, in both videos, has shown that you have no CC or less than .5 ppm CC and have a accurate FC reading.

A helpful hint for the CYA test, Hold the tube with the black dot at waist level in open shade when doing the test. If you are doing it indoors hold it at waist level in a room with indirect but bright lighting. If you go to 

https://www.taylortechnologies.com/en/page/171/why-monitor-cyanuric-acid

there are pictures of how the test should look. Also check out the video archive

https://www.taylortechnologies.com/en/content/video-archive

which will show you how to do each test, testing interference, and other useful information.

Post your test results (and if you want to do another video so I can look at your testing technique for all your testing it's not problem) and I will talk to you soon.

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17 minutes ago, waterbear said:

Is that you testing? IF so there are several mistakes. First, don't use the DPD test from the 2005. Use a 10 ml sample for the FAS-DPD test, only use 1 scoop of DPD powder if the pink color is holding,  them each drop of titrant will be equivalent to .5 ppm instead of .2 ppm. This is more than enough resolution for this test. You don't need to determine chlorine levels to .2 ppm, .5 ppm is fine!

The reason the DPD test from the 2005 is not working is because the DPD is bleaching out because of chlorine levels at or above 10 ppm. and you need to do dilutions on your sample which is a PITA. Trust the results from the FAS-DPD test. Also when doing the FAS-DPD test you need to swirl the sample after EACH DROP.

The FAS-DPD test is much more reliable since it does not have the potential to read low when chlorine is actually high, which can and does happen with the DPD test and it is happening to you! When using the K-2005 DPD test it is impossible for the color of the TC test to be lighter than the color of the FC test UNLESS the DPD is beaching out because of high chlorine levels. Since you don't have a K-2005 you don't have the instructions on how to dllute your sample (which is more work than using FAD-DPD, trust me on this! Stick to the FAS-DPD test with a 10 ml sample, 1 scoop of DPD powder,and count each drop as .5 ppm

IF you want to do a a quick check on total chlorine and pH before breaking out the 'big kit' get a K-1000 OTO/oH test kit. OTO will only test total chlorine but it is bulletproof and will not bleach out. It can also give you an estimate of very high total chlorine levels with a the color changing from the shades of yellow on the comparator to a deeper level at around 10-15 ppm then orange about 25 ppm to red/redbrown at 35ppm and above which is useful when shocking. ThepH test in this kit is a wider range test with a lower resolution compared to the 2005/2006 pH test and uses a small comparator and a different reagent. This test is useful as a quick daily check before using the tub as long as you do a full set of tests weekly with the big kit (CH and CYA can be done biweekly to monthly once things are balanced and stable.)

Bottom line, there is testing error on your part and your testing methodology is not the best. For all titrations swirl after each drop (or use a magnetic stirrer, Taylor has one that is not very expensive). When titrating keep adding drops until the last drop does not produce additional color change and then don't count the last drop, use a 10 ml sample for the FSD-DPD test, 25 ml sample for TA and CH test unless the CH is very high (above 350 to 400 ppm) then use the 10 ml sample, 10 drops of calcium buffer, 3 drops of indicator, anc count each drop of titrant as 25 ppm CH. Don't shake the pH test isnce the aeration created can acutally cause your pH to read higher than it is. Instead invert the capped comparator 4 or 5 times. Same thing after each drop of acid or base demand reagent. Let's get your testing methodology improved and get a good set of test results (using the FAS-DPD test) and we can take it from there. Forget the pool store testing, you don't need it!

Next step, please test your water and post the full set of results.

Also, I am curious why you got the K-2005 DPD test and comparator when you purchased your K-2006. DId the store talk you into it? It's not needed, more difficult to read, particularly for men who have more difficulty determining close shades of red than women, and is prone to beachout, which you have been experiencing.

Okay I will run another test here shortly and let you know what I got. However you mention 1 scoop of powder in 10ml after that how many drops of R0003 do I add for CC 

The FAS DPD test I did was what I followed off the Taylor youtube channel on how to do it. On there it says 25ml and two scoops etc. So I followed their method. 

As for the 2005 reagents. A guy here I know that sells them said the FAS DPD test is more time consuming for a daily check and I could just use the reagents from the 2005 test kit so I got the reagents and the comparator. Looking at the directions for the 2005 and 2006 test kit it is the same add 5 r0001 5 r0002 mix and FC then r0003 mix and TC. So I did not and do not see a reason that shouldn't work. THAT said I can understand the bleaching out you mention but that is only because I shocked the tub yesterday. The other times my FC read 5 and TC read lower. 5 is not a high Chlorine level and I wouldn't think it should bleach out. 

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I just tested again 10ml 1 scoop of DPD powder swirling while dropping 0871 and got 14 drops. 14 x 0.5 = 7    ?? 

added 5 drops of r003 and water did not turn any color soo I am guessing there is no CC  ?? 

PH still at 7.6 

TA at 50 

 

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I had just edited my reply so you might want to reread it. I have given you my advice on testing. Take it or leave it.

15 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

The other times my FC read 5 and TC read lower. 5 is not a high Chlorine level and I wouldn't think it should bleach out. 

Your FC partially bleached out and read low. Your FAS-DPD test in the vidoe read just under 10 ppm which is the tipoff.  Trust the FAS-DPD

 

21 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

On there it says 25ml and two scoops etc. So I followed their method. 

Try reading the instructions on the lid of the kit where it says "For 1 drop = 0.2 ppm, use 25 ml sample. For 1 drop = 0.5 ppm, use 10 ml sample." As far as the amount of DPD powder, you need to add enough for a stable pink color. 1 scoop is often enough for even a 25 ml sample. If the color flashes pink when you add the powder but then bleaches to colorless add another scoop unti the pink color is stable on swirling the sample. For very high chlorine levels this can be as many as 4 or 5 scoops! At 'nuke' levels of chlorine the powder will go off color or not stay pink. THIS is when you want an OTO test kit (K-1000) to get a ballpark of just how high your chlorine is.

 

24 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

how many drops of R0003 do I add for CC 

5 in either case. R-0003 is a potassium iodide solution that converts the chlorine to iodine (similar to they way sodium bromide converts chlorine to bromine), which is then measured. The actual amount has to be in excess of the amount needed to convert all the chlorine so 5 drops is fine with either sample size.

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20 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

I just tested again 10ml 1 scoop of DPD powder swirling while dropping 0871 and got 14 drops. 14 x 0.5 = 7    ?? 

Yes

added 5 drops of R-0003 and water did not turn any color soo I am guessing there is no CC  ?? 

Yes

PH still at 7.6 

excellent

TA at 50 

also excellent

Are you doing dichlor/bleach? If so track all the FC added by the dichlor. For every 10 ppm FC added you are adding 9 ppm FC so when you have added around 35 pm FC cumulative your CYA should be about 30 ppm and you should switch to bleach for chlorinating. Search for PoolMath  on google for a dosing calculator. Use the web based one, not the app.

 Once you have the CYA on target and your other parameters are staying stable we can talk about adding boric acid or borax. You will need to pick up some Lamotte Borate test strips, most likely online. Don't get the AquaChek, Hach, or Taylor strips. They are impossible to read since the color blocks are very close shades of tan, The Lamotte strips change color from pink to tan.

 I will check back this evening.

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I am not doubting you, you asked me a question as to why I purchased the parts from the 2005 kit and that was my answer.  

Thank you for your help and for the clarification on the R 0003 with the dpd test at 10 ml 

So am I reading things right then as far as CC goes. Since I have no color change when I add R 0003 then I have 0 ppm of CC ?? 

10ml  results got me at 7 ppm 

I did another test the same way I did it this morning "right or wrong" just to see what I would get. 

25ml 2 scoops and 40 drops = 8 ppm vs the 9.6 I got this morning. So from 7am this morning until 1pm today looks like my Chlorine level dropped 1.6 ppm 

Am I calculating that right I am curious as to know what my demand is in a 24 hour period. Does that seem right or like more than it should be? 

I will test again tomorrow around 1pm your way with 10ml and see how much it has dropped from the 7ppm I just got. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, waterbear said:

Are you doing dichlor/bleach? If so track all the FC added by the dichlor. For every 10 ppm FC added you are adding 9 ppm FC so when you have added around 35 pm FC cumulative your CYA should be about 30 ppm and you should switch to bleach for chlorinating. Search for PoolMath  on google for a dosing calculator. Use the web based one, not the app.

 Once you have the CYA on target and your other parameters are staying stable we can talk about adding boric acid or borax. You will need to pick up some Lamotte Borate test strips, most likely online. Don't get the AquaChek, Hach, or Taylor strips. They are impossible to read since the color blocks are very close shades of tan, The Lamotte strips change color from pink to tan.

 I will check back this evening.

my cya according to the pool store after yesterdays shock with dichlor is at 26ppm 

Yes I plan to use bleach after I get to 30ppm of cya 

I already ordered and have in hand the Lamonte testing strips 

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2 hours ago, dayday1 said:

your way

No, this is the correct way to test. One problem with your video is that you were not swirling after each drop, this could change your results and possibly cause you to 'overshoot' and read higher than it actually is which might explain the 7 ppm with 10 ml and the 8 ppm with 25 ml. These tests shouldn't really be off by more than .5 ppm which is the resolution of the 10 ml test. In a worse case scenario the 10 ml test is low by .5 ppm and the 25 ml test is high by 2 ppm making the actual results 7.5 and 8.2 which is a range of only .7 ppm. I suspect that sloppy drop addition and inconsistent mixing introduced error and the more drops you have to add the higher the possible error becomes, which is why the 10 ml sample is a better choice for accurate results.

Also, not quite sure why you are trying to determine chlorine demand because once you use the tub the demand will change. It's not really an important parameter to worry about and only complicates what is really an easy process. Test chlorine weekly with the big kit if spa is not used or more often if spa is used and adjust as needed. Shock when CC is above 1 ppm If you want to do a a quick check to make sure the pH is ok and that there is chlorine in the tub and it's not too high use the K-1000 OTO pH test kit. It has a small comparator that you can submerge and "flick" to get the water level right so it's fast. IF the test shows pH out of whack or total chlorine is too low or too high THEN you get out the big kit and check all your water parameters. If your numbers are good then soak and enjoy! Remember, its a hot tub, not a chemistry set.

Based on your recent numbers I would say that you are good. 7 ppm FC is a bit high but you can certainly go in with over 20 ppm CYA. Shoot for these numbers

FC 4-6 ppm (Unless you have some sort of automatic feeder you will need to add chlorine daily or every other day. Just test and when it drops too low add more. If you have ozone will consume some of the chlorine and create a higher demand. This is why you want to test and when it's below 4 ppm add enough to bring it up to 6 ppm again. Easy Peasy!

CC no higher than 1 ppm, .5 is better but often not achievable in a spa

pH no lower than 7.6 (the lower you put pH the faster it rises). When it goes above 8.0 lower it to 7.6. Once you add the borate you will find that your pH is going to cruise along at about 7.7. Bottom line, pH will always rise and you will always need to add acid to lower it. It should not rise too high in a day or two.. Most people can go a week to a month without needing to add acid,some much longer. YMMV

TA 50-70 If pH rise is a problem you can go to 40 ppm.

CH over 120. The point of calcium in an acrylic spa is to help prevent foaming. It doesn't eliminate it in all cases but it helps.

CYA at 30 ppm

.When you have this and it's relatively stable over a few weeks we can add the borate. Right now I would suggest a good soak in thetub since your numbers are looking good.
 

 

CH over 120 ppm.

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Only reason I was curious about chlorine demand was to see if I had something more in my tub since I had soooo many issues with cleaning the biofilms out. I was thinking about Nitros post in bringing the Chlorine to 10ppm and see where it was in 24 hours to see if something is using my sanitizer. Thats all 

I do have ozone also and according to the hot tub service man it is working. Any idea how much one of those eats on Chlorine? 

Last thing I can think of for now and again THANK YOU for all your help. 

I have read that when I use the tub I should add about 3 to 3.5 oz of bleach 6% per bather/bather hour when I get out. My tub is 350 gallons. 

And as for shock do I need to use an oxidizer or can I do the same thing with bleach once a week? Say pour enough in to get to 10ppm once a week or should it be higher? Or the same thing when I am at 1ppm of CC 

Thanks @waterbear

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1 hour ago, dayday1 said:

Only reason I was curious about chlorine demand was to see if I had something more in my tub since I had soooo many issues with cleaning the biofilms out. I was thinking about Nitros post in bringing the Chlorine to 10ppm and see where it was in 24 hours to see if something is using my sanitizer. Thats all 

You have 0 CC. That's all you need to know! If something besides ozone or UV was using the chlorine (like a biofilm) you would have CC. Stop overthinking, Nitro overly complicated things and there are some problems with his postsIMHO. I originally knew him when I was a Moderator at TroubleFreePool before it was sold.  Nitro came here because no one really knew about hot tubs at TFP.

I do have ozone also and according to the hot tub service man it is working. Any idea how much one of those eats on Chlorine? 

Depends on many factors. Not all ozone units are created equal. Ozone can and often will deplete chlorine. Just test and make sure your FC stays in the 4-6 pm range. It's really that easy.

Last thing I can think of for now and again THANK YOU for all your help. 

I have read that when I use the tub I should add about 3 to 3.5 oz of bleach 6% per bather/bather hour when I get out. My tub is 350 gallons. 

1 and half tablespoons of 6% laundry bleach will raise 350 gallons 1 PPM. Test the water and adjust the chlorine if needed when you get out or the next day. IF there is more than 1 ppm CC then shock to 12-15 ppm. This means that you test and you have 4 ppm FC and 2 ppm CC. Add enough bleach to bring your FC to about15 ppm  which would bed adding 11 ppm or 8 oz of 6% bleach. It's really that simple!

And as for shock do I need to use an oxidizer or can I do the same thing with bleach once a week? Say pour enough in to get to 10ppm once a week or should it be higher? Or the same thing when I am at 1ppm of CC

Bleach is an oxidizer and a sanitizer. MPS is an oxidizer only.  Ozone is an oxidizer.  Shock when CC is OVER 1 ppm. Ideally you want CC to be .5 ppm or less but that is often impossible in a tub because of the small bather to water ratio when compared to even a small pool. 1 ppm is often achievable and with ozone almost a guarantee.

Thanks @waterbear

Welcome.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, waterbear said:

 

 

Okay I am over thinking it I guess, mainly because how disgusted I was seeing what came out of the tub and not wanting to get sick or grow a 3rd eye. Again I appreciate all your help and patience will touch base in a week or so about boric acid. Any particular kind I should order in the meantime? 

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53 minutes ago, dayday1 said:

Any particular kind I should order in the meantime? 

This is where many people get their boric acid but any place you can source it is fine

https://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemicals_A-F-Boric_Acid.html

You will initially need about 13 oz by weight or 14 oz by volume to go from 0 to 50 ppm in 350 gallons. Check it monthly. When it drops below 30 ppm add it at the rate of 2.5 oz by weight or 3 oz by volume to raise 350 gallons about 10 ppm. If you don't get a lot of splash out you might find that your 4 month water change comes up before you drop below 30 ppm.

You can also use a commercial borate product like Proteam Gentle Spa but they tend to be an expensive mix of boric acid and borax to create a pH neutral product. It is also possible to use 20 mule team borax (sodium tetraborate decahydrate) and either muriatic acid or dry acid to bring the pH in line since borax is alkaline but it is a more complicated  and slower procedure although it is the least expensive way to do it. However, boric acid is easy, not that expensive, and is basically a dump and go situation. Just pour in the right amount and you are done. Check pH after 24 hours of circulation and adjust if really off. If it's low but still above 7.0 just let it rise on it's own.

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Something smelled a little funny when I was in the other day and still seeing like a slimy substance on one side of the tub when I was in, so I said F it and threw in some more ahh-some. This video is the 3rd time again purging. This is F'n ridiculous the previous owner must have never drained this thing. I have plain bleach from publix but on the back says can be used for HE so I wonder if the awesome interacts with it???? 

Tomorrow I am going to run another ahh-some with just dichlor and see what happens, then I am going to the pool store getting SH and blasting this thing!!!!!! 

https://youtu.be/pulfdPkwqe4

@waterbear

didn't you say if my CC was clear after adding the R0003 that there is no combined chlorine?? And if that is true does that mean that the chlorine in the tub is not being used up to kill bad stuff?? 

Just curious because I got in this tub 2 or 3 times with the yuk in the video obviously still in the tub. I always had at least 5ppm FC when I used it. 

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4 hours ago, dayday1 said:

I have plain bleach from publix but on the back says can be used for HE

That just means it can be used in a High Efficiency washing machine eg: Front End Load Washer  Just an FYI 

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2 minutes ago, Fingerstank said:

That just means it can be used in a High Efficiency washing machine eg: Front End Load Washer  Just an FYI 

I thought so myself but just thinking outside the box. Like if something was in it that attached to the ah-some or something. Just hard to believe I am still getting such nasty out of this hot tub 

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It's quite possible like you had mentioned in an earlier post, perhaps the original tub owner never really took care of it? 

Could be the reason he sold it as well. Water chemistry isn't my forte either can be frustrating :) 

It may be very well it's finally getting a long awaited purge and stuff is still becoming detached from the plumbing and heating elements.

Perhaps just super chlorinate it. 

Then do a complete refill and use it for a while and do it all again after you have used for a while.

Thinking as long as you are keeping up with the FC levels you should be ok.

But I am sure others may have better advice. Just thinking you are getting frustrated and not really enjoying your tub 

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