Persistent Foam Issue

[Ahoya06]

We purchased a new spa (Viking Legacy 2) that was delivered in September. We're using low levels of chlorine with the Nature 2 cartridge. Our initial water sample from the spa store showed that our alkalinity and ph were both perfect, so no additional chemicals in the beginning. We've been shocking with MPS. A couple of weeks in, the alkalinity and ph and  started reading low so I balanced everything. Shortly after this, some foam started to appear, which gradually grew to be a LOT of foam. I reached out to the spa store, and they told me that it was likely detergent from our suits.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I cleaned our washer twice, then washed all of our swimsuits several times in the clean washer using no detergent. A week or so later, I did a full water change. As was the case in the store, the alkalinity and ph were perfect, so I chlorinated and we were good to go. For a week or so, there was no foam at all in the new water, and the only thing we introduced to the tub was 3 tbsp of MPS after each use.

 

10 days after the water change, I tested the tub and both the alkalinity and ph were low, so I first raised the alkalinity, then the ph, and then I added stain and scale remover (the chlorine levels were fine at this point so I left that alone).

 

From that point on, the foam came back. I'm not sure what's going on here, since we've eliminated detergent as a factor. I did get test strips to test the water hardness, and it came back at what I believe is an ideal level (at or a little below 120 ppm). The alkalinity has been stable since I added alkalinity increaser the first time, but the ph drops below 6.8 weekly. I'm using Spa Pure brand chemicals for all these adjustments.

 

Does anyone have idea what could be happening? If the ph is perfect in our hose water, so why is it shifting lower over time? And could whatever is causing that also be causing the foam? The foam is very annoying so it's something I'd like to try and mitigate if possible. My wife and I have also noticed that we may be reacting to the MPS, so I may start shocking with dichlor, if that matters.

[RDspaguy]

5 hours ago, Ahoya06 said:

We're using low levels of chlorine with the Nature 2 cartridge.

 

5 hours ago, Ahoya06 said:

so I chlorinated

 

5 hours ago, Ahoya06 said:

the only thing we introduced to the tub was 3 tbsp of MPS after each use.

 

5 hours ago, Ahoya06 said:

chlorine levels were fine at this point

We're missing quite a bit of key info in there. Mainly, how much chlorine how often? What do you consider to be fine chlorine levels? Do you have ozone or uv? Are you using just dichlor, or liquid (bleach) as well?

First, we recommend any new to you spa be purged with Ahhsome spa cleaner before you use it.

Second, get a good test kit. Taylor k2005 or k2006. are the preferred choice.

I recommend chlorine after each use. If you do not have ozone or uv you can shock with mps, but I recommend chlorine.

There are many recent threads on this subject, I'd suggest you read them so @waterbear doesn't have to write that particular book again.😉

Come back with any questions.

[RDspaguy]

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52595-suggestions-for-chlorine-reading-zero-every-day/&do=findComment&comment=202318

Here's one to get you started.

[Ahoya06]

Sorry, I’m new to all this, so I’m not yet sure what the key info is. The chlorine levels have been fine, it’s the ph that’s dropping, and then the spa produces significant foam when I add the ph up product.

I do have ozone, and with the Nature 2 I try to keep the spa between 0.5 and 1 ppm. I’ve only introduced dichlor and MPS at this point - dichlor following the Nature 2 instructions on fill-up and then 3 tablespoons of MPS after each use.

 

 

[RDspaguy]

I know the title of the thread I linked is a different problem, but the in-depth chemistry discussion therein applies to everyone. Your foam, if not from detergent, lotion, hair conditioner, etc... is the result of organic contaminants in the water and likely coating the inside of the spa pipes in a chlorine/ozone/silver resistant mass called biofilm. 

Ph drop is the natural result of chlorine usage. Your MPS is affecting your test strip readings.

Please read the linked thread, the sticky thread on dichlor/bleach, and other similar threads to save us volunteers on this forum from again detailing the extensive information that we just finished writing for someone else yesterday. Your issues are far from unique, and if you follow the guidelines spelled out in meticulous detail in many many other threads it will solve your problem as well.

If, after you have educated yourself a bit, you have any questions we will be happy to help. But please do a little homework on your own first. The linked thread is your first assignment in this class.😁

[RDspaguy]

Here are a few more...

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52419-heads-a-spinning-around-mps-and-chlorine-chemistry/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52459-chlorine-is-at-0/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52067-weird-foam/

 

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18706-chlorine-demand/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27593-please-learn-from-my-mistakes-and-medical-bills/

 

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/

 

👍

 

[Ahoya06]

Thank you! That all makes sense. I’ll go do my research and let you know if I need some clarity (no pun intended). 😀

[Ahoya06]

I have a couple of clarifications after reading some of the other threads.

 

1) It sounds like my ph is lowering from usage and adding chlorine or shock. If I stop using the 3 tbsp of MPS after each use and use a teaspoon or two of dichlor instead, will the ph lower even faster? I was planning on switching from MPS to dichlor anyway because I think my wife and I may be allergic.

2) Is the solution to this aerating the spa? If so, is that as simple as leaving all the air Jets on and running it for a couple of hours on full speed, with the cover open?

[Ahoya06]

One addition follow up question: Is Stain and Scale Preventer something I should actually be adding to the spa regular, or is that another one of those “products” that dealers include that one doesn’t always need?

[RDspaguy]

1) Yes. MPS is high ph, it will show as chlorine on most types of test, and it can bleach out other test results. 

Remember that dichlor is almost half cya (cyanuric acid, aka stabilizer) that builds up in the water and at high levels will bind up your chlorine, making you need much more to sanitize the water. This is why the dichlor/bleach method is recommended.

2) Yes.

3) You only need it with water high in metals or calcium. Even then, if you maintain your ph properly you won't need it. But metal stains can be a PITA to remove, so get it tested if you don't want to roll the dice.