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Ever wonder what biofilm looks like?


RDspaguy

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I picked up a 2002 Hot Springs Prodigy as a flip tub. It had been frozen, and has multiple leaks as a result. Hot Springs are the WORST tubs to do plumbing repairs on, due to the piece-built tongue and groove sides and extremely hard foam that channels water, making it a true joy to locate the leaks.

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But I digress...
I am (obviously) cutting out some damaged pvc, and I noticed that there is a biofilm buildup inside the pipes. This is nothing new to me, having been repairing spas for 25 years, but I thought some of my new friends here on PoolSpaForum might not have ever seen it. Except @CanadianSpaTech, who has undoubtedly seen more than he wants to of it. 😉 I even hear that some doubt it's existence, and think that Ahhsome puts stuff in to cause the gunk that comes out. 🙄
So here it is:

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Here you can see where I wiped some off.

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That is a different pipe than the first pic, btw, so you see it is in every pipe in the tub. That's alot of square footage of surface area. And alot of nasty gunk.

A little history... I have never been a fan of purge products. I have tried a few over the years and had poor results, so I stopped using or recommending them. Once I started on PSF and another forum I frequent (about a year ago), I started hearing about Ahhsome. I read threads, watched videos, chatted with @dllenoand @Ahhsomeguy, and was convinced. But I had never used it myself...
So I reached out to Ahhsomeguy and made him a little challenge. I proposed to run his product in this tub (after I complete repairs) then cut open a pipe and look. Forget scientific test numbers, I am from Missouri, the Show-Me state. So show me. I had ahhsome delivered at my house 2 days later. He must have shipped it priority, or something. 👍
I will keep you posted on the repair status and test results with pics. I am kinda excited, but the tub has ALOT of leaks, so it may be a bit...

 
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Update: I have located several more leaks and am hoping to find the last one in the next day or two. Once I have them all located I will purge before I drain it for the repairs. I'll be getting a look inside numerous pipes then.🤪

What an incredible PITA hot springs plumbing is! 🤬 I could have completely replumbed 2 full foam spas from anybody else, or 4 (maybe 5) non-foam spas in the time I have in this halfway done hot springs. Ridiculous!

Ok. Done bitchin' (for now). I'll keep you posted.  

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Thanks for the post! I'm surprised there isn't more biofilm in those lines, wonder if the previous owner ever purged.

5 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

What an incredible PITA hot springs plumbing is! 🤬 I could have completely replumbed 2 full foam spas from anybody else, or 4 (maybe 5) non-foam spas in the time I have in this halfway done hot springs. Ridiculous!

From the pictures it looks like you're ripping out the foam by hand.

Don't you have a hot-knife in your toolbox? They slice through foam like butter with enough wattage - get the power set right and you'll be able to slice through the foam without damaging any other components (PVC plumbing, silicon tubing, or electrical wiring).   

Or is it the way they route the plumbing around the tub that makes it such a PITA?

 

industrial6inch.jpg

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I have not used one of those. I would be afraid to touch a spa with that thing. You say it won't damage piping, but I have serious doubts about the flex and clear tubing.

No, I'll stick with digging it by hand. Part of the pita is the fact that you cant take too much at a time because the foam is so hard and dense you can actually damage the plumbing and glue joints by trying to get too big a chunk out. Nothing is worse than making more work for yourself, and unless I am removing cones of foam it will still be adhered to the pipes whether I put a cut in it or not. I could use a small handsaw, like a drywall saw, as well, but would still have the same issue. I use a nail bar to take bites out of the hard foam, and dig by hand in soft foam. Other brands, like Sundance, use almost all soft foam. Newer HS might too, but these old ones are almost all hard foam, and my nightmare.

The power washer actually works surprisingly well, I just wish it wasn't so damned unpleasant to use. I end up soaked with foam specks in my eyes in spite of safety glasses. And it's too cold to be soaked for hours. I can't seem to find my rainsuit pants, so (you're gonna laugh) I wrap my lower half in packing film (like green saran wrap) to stay a little dry. 🤣 It's quite comical. My wife laughed her a** off.

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Well, I found the last elusive leak. My nightmare is now complete. 

Did I ever mention that hot springs shells are not fiberglass? They are acrylic over plastic of some kind. Here is why that's a HORRIBLE idea.

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This is from underneath looking up at the bottom of one of the seats. See the shell crack? 🤬🤯🐴💩🐒🧠🤪🙄⁉️

That's all I have to say about THAT!

 

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Yep!!! Devcon plastic weld and crossed fingers. Groove it out a tiny bit with a dremmel tool and shellac it with Devcon. For some reason everybody loves HotSprings but I just can't stand them and won't work on them. Never had an easy repair on one that made me money. That's why I haven't posted much lately all the posts seem HS related lately.

 

@RDspaguy All things Canadian Package is finally complete now I just have to figure out the customs docs and it's on it's way. Hope you have a good dental plan...lol Maple cotton candy...who knew :) 

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Customs docs? Guess I didn't think that request through...

Think I'm going to layer in some fiberglass mesh with the devcon then support with some wood framing and refoam. (Sigh) Have to sand by hand, it's too thin to risk any power tools. At least it's invisible on the blue granite acrylic inside. 

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Sorry gang, my internet was down for a few days. That's the price you pay for living where I do.

Purge is done, and I have to say I am impressed.

Before:

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After:

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I don't think I have ever seen a spa pipe so clean inside. I made a video of the process but I can't upload it to YouTube on my ultra-slow internet. Next time I am in town and have a phone signal I will try again.

As for the repairs:

You remember this...

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Here it's sanded down to shell.

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From the other side with the setting sun behind it. The spa is standing on it's side for repairs.

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I used fiberglass mesh and JBweld (they don't have plastic weld down here).

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Then I built a wood support, leaving about a quarter inch between the wood plate and the shell for spray foam. 

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Completed the remaining pvc repairs (hopefully the last of them, but you never know). 

Cold and raining today, so will get it back on blocks later to fill and test (hopefully) one last time before re-insulating and rebuilding the cabinet.

I'll keep you posted.

 

 

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Wow that's AHH Some! Great job on the repairs. Hope you are at the end of it. I know the feeling with "free" spas...you get into it and most times it's more that what you were told or bargained for...but you just have to keep going because you started and a rabbit hole can only be so deep...right...lol that and it's what we do. Hope you get a good return on it in the end. I try and complete 2 a month minimum and that alone usually pays the monthly bills. I am fortunate to have a steady supply of semi decent trade ins so I can be a little bit picky and get quite a few dump spas for stripping parts that often saves me $$ on fixing the good ones. Have 3 in the backyard now but the clock is ticking to get them done before the snow flies tick.. tick... tick 

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Blocked up, hot and under pressure, for 2 days. Tiny little seep at the main drain valve threads, nothing a touch of teflon wont fix. 👍

Insulated with fiberglass and ready to rebuild the cabinet.

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Still need the auxiliary control and 4 jet inserts. But almost time to kick this one down the road. I'll be SO happy when it's gone!

 

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Great Job...where's all the snow.. I don't see any snow...lol

On 11/21/2020 at 5:54 PM, CanadianSpaTech said:

but the clock is ticking to get them done before the snow flies tick.. tick... tick

Well the snow flied...flew...fell...here for about 6 inches just after I wrote that...lol

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We may not see snow. If we do, it will likely be more of a slush than snow. Thick ice coating everything and downing trees and powerlines, sure, a few times most likely. But probably not much snow.

Last year it snowed enough to accumulate once, about 2 or 3 inches. We made a snowman, plucking the leaves off the outside, and took pics immediately. The head was on the ground within 3 hours, and it was an unrecognizable lump of leaf-covered ice by the next day.

It used to snow more when I was a kid. Even when my 25 year old daughter was a kid. But it's getting pretty rare lately.

We have been below freezing a couple of nights so far.

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7 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

The long wait times for new tubs seem to be helping the used spa market. 

Absolutely! getting an extra $500-$1000 a used tub right now. Even getting dealers calling willing to pay full pop just so they have something for the sales guys to sell. Quick as I can get them tested and post an ad they are sold. 😁 Trying to cut back on service call to focus more on the ones I have left but hard to do as the calls keep coming shorter days and seems like it rains or snows every day. 

Good job on the spa!✔️

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  • 3 months later...
On 11/24/2020 at 2:03 PM, RDspaguy said:

Blocked up, hot and under pressure, for 2 days. Tiny little seep at the main drain valve threads, nothing a touch of teflon wont fix. 👍

Insulated with fiberglass and ready to rebuild the cabinet.

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Still need the auxiliary control and 4 jet inserts. But almost time to kick this one down the road. I'll be SO happy when it's gone!

 

RDguy, quick question.

While the tub is on blocks, is that sufficient to support the weight if you fill it with water? 
 

I have a beachcomber with similar tongue and groove side panels and possible freeze damage leaks and may need to do this when it warms up.

 

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