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Need Constructive Help Picking A Spa


kiawahspa

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I am in the market for a spa. I have a vacation house on Kiawah Island, SC. I live in Chicago and get to use my vacation house about 3 or 4 weeks a year. I rent out the house about 12-16 weeks a year, the remainder of the year the house sits empty. I plan to purchase a spa (portable?) and have it permanently sit on the deck in the backyard (regarding the deck - it will be rebuilt by my contractor to meet the required specs to support the spa.)

I have been looking for dealers in the area for the past year. I only have a few to choose from in the Charleston area. If I want to purchase a spa from a local dealer it seems my choices are limited to the following brands: Hot Springs, Tiger River, Hot Spot, Solana and San Juan pools. I think it make sense to buy locally so that it can be serviced locally.

I have been surfing the internet and have called a few places, the Envoy by Hot Springs seems to be about the right size. As I do rent out my house periodically I anticipate that the spa will be heavily used. I am interested in quality and durability and am will to pay to get it.

I have poked around on this forum and have found some of the posts to be very helpful. I have also seen some of the threads deteriorate into some pretty heated exchanges (I am hoping to avoid this.)

Any constructive input, regarding brand, quality, and quality of service would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.

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I have been looking for dealers in the area for the past year. I only have a few to choose from in the Charleston area.

Normally we heavily advise people to wet test the spas tehy see to make sure it's the right fit. In your case all kinds of people would use it so you really are all about Quality and Warranty. The other thing you need to be sure of is that you have a local dealer who will handle the service needs (especially with you having to call in from afar to make the service request) without a hassle so find out how long the dealer has been around so you know they're established. Hot Springs is a very good choice (as are Sundance, Marquis, D1, Caldera, etc.). It sounds like you're on the right track.

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I am in the market for a spa. I have a vacation house on Kiawah Island, SC. I live in Chicago and get to use my vacation house about 3 or 4 weeks a year. I rent out the house about 12-16 weeks a year, the remainder of the year the house sits empty. I plan to purchase a spa (portable?) and have it permanently sit on the deck in the backyard (regarding the deck - it will be rebuilt by my contractor to meet the required specs to support the spa.)

I have been looking for dealers in the area for the past year. I only have a few to choose from in the Charleston area. If I want to purchase a spa from a local dealer it seems my choices are limited to the following brands: Hot Springs, Tiger River, Hot Spot, Solana and San Juan pools. I think it make sense to buy locally so that it can be serviced locally.

I have been surfing the internet and have called a few places, the Envoy by Hot Springs seems to be about the right size. As I do rent out my house periodically I anticipate that the spa will be heavily used. I am interested in quality and durability and am will to pay to get it.

I have poked around on this forum and have found some of the posts to be very helpful. I have also seen some of the threads deteriorate into some pretty heated exchanges (I am hoping to avoid this.)

Any constructive input, regarding brand, quality, and quality of service would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help.

Shopping list for your spa search.

1/ Look for spas that are easier to repair. As the spa ages, you do not want to spend extra money on labor, especially on leaks. The equipment should be spread out so one component is not in the way of removing the other. All of the side panels should be removable, and the spa should not be filled with dense foam to interfere with repairs. (Don't buy a luxury car and fill the hood full of foam!). The smaller tubing needs support with foam to keep it from shaking and leaking, so some foam support is needed. The standard design from 27 years ago is to stuff the cabinet with foam, then place the equipment in a box in front of the spa. This is not only a poor design for repairs, it is bad in terms of heat build up on the pumps and the plumbing has multiple consessions in design. It is much better to allow air space around the equipment. If you place the equipment in a large container as in a thermal pane spa, the heat is dissapated and the equipment is easy to access. If you have a leak in the plumbing, buried in the foam,in a fully foamed spa, it is very expensive to fix. How do you find it?

2/ Look for spas with standard parts. There are several companies that make readily available high quality parts. The word "EXCLUSIVE", means just what it says. You are excluded from buying parts from other suppliers. If they have exclusive parts that you like, check around to see how much they cost to replace. I certainly would not pay $500 for a heater manifold. Most all the major brands have some ridiculous prices on parts. All of the manufactures of spas use outside manufacturers for the various parts. If they buy enough parts, then they can have the parts "bastardized" so that they cannot be replaced with the standard part. There is no difference in quality between "exclusive" parts and non-exclusive. In most cases the non exclusive parts are stronger. One large company places the motor frame on the pump on a 45 degree angle, so that you can't even replace it with a better brand of motor. You are stuck with an inferior part and "pay thorugh the nose" for it.

3/ Look for spas that are fully insulated and not fully foamed. A fully foamed-in spa is not, by any stretch of science, the most energy efficient spa. Spas that capture the heat from the equipment and keep cold air off the components and plumbing are efficient. A fully insulated spa has foam on the shell, warm air chamber, and the walls of the cabinet have foam boards. The cabinet is closed with no vents that allow cold air to enter the cabinet except by vacuum. DAIT Click Here

4/ Look for spas with acrylic backed by vinyl ester bonding resin and hand rolled fiberglass with glass cloth or chop. This is the shell with the most history for strength, reparability, and beauty. (When something better comes along I'll be the first to let you know.) The cheaper spas will use a composite of Acrylic and ABS, or another plastic and ABS with no structural fiberglass. Then the cabinet is stuffed with structural foam to hold it up. This is a cause of many problems that result in expensive repairs and more expense to heat the water.

5/ Look for quality electronics. Right now Gecko makes the best (in my experience) and Balboa is very good.

6/ Look for spas that have good clean plumbing. If the pump can put out 200 gallons per minute and it is running at 150, there is something wrong with the design. If a diverter valve is used, make sure it is NOT the first thing the pump hits in the plumbing path. If the diverter valve is the first plumbing part after the pump, then the spa is poorly plumbed. I call this "diverter first" plumbing. Look for few turns in the main plumbing. A poorly installed diverter valve means that people have to wait their turn for the jets. The diverter valve is similar to driving you car with the brakes on, in which the engine works harder to do less work. If you cannot run all the jets at full pressure at the same time, then the spa has a diverter valve, restricting the flow.

7/ Look for bypass filtering with check valves on the main jet pumps. This insures proper water flow to the jets. It also follows the ANSI standards for safety. (The worse design is the no bypass plumbing on spa pumps because it limits the water flow and as the filters get dirty, the jet pressure drops. These spas have weak jet pressure to begin with and water diverters.)

8/ Look for pumps that are mounted to reduce noise. We use rubber mounting pads, solid 2 x 4 frames and lag screws to hold the pumps solid and get rid of "sounding boards" (thin plywood or plastic). Listen to the pumps running on high with all the equipment going. If you can't have a conversation, don't buy it. All you should hear is water!

9/ The length of a warranty on the spa should not be the primary reason for buying. Warranties are hidden "insurance policies" in the spa that you are paying for. It is built into the price of the spa. For instance, our least expensive spas have a one year parts and labor warranty for a reason. It is to make them affordable. Our high end spas have 5 years parts and labor. The same brand of components, same shell construction, same plumbing parts brands. ( When I hear a salesperson say: "we put our money where our mouth is". They mean "we put your money in our pockets and manipulate the interpretation".)

10/ Look for reasonable prices. A one horsepower (1.65 hp), one speed jet pump spa with no air jets (air injection) being sold for $6000 is a rip off. Look for the features per dollar of the spa as well as design and construction materials. Do not purchase any spa that you do not understand about the equipment being used. Find out the real HP, motor size, brand of motor, brand of electronics and jets.

11/ Avoid spas that use a tiny 24 hour circulation pump that produces less than 18 GPM. (Unless of course you want to buy scum balls, scum bags, scum bug, extra shock and water clarifiers, and enzyme treatments to help get the scum out of the water.)

12/ Don't be "sold" on a spa by a salesman. If you feel pressure and manipulation, get up and walk out. The deal they have now that is so good, may be even better tomorrow. Research the products and take some "salt" with you so you can take everything as they say with "a grain of salt". Make your decision to purchase at a later time based on knowledge. ( There is a company that goes around with trailers and RV's with a sign on the trailer saying "LIQUIDATION SALE". The spas they sell are lacking in cold weather insulation, not fully finished, and are being sold for about $1000 more than a comparable spa. They say if you don't buy now, you will miss out on the best deal. They also don't take care of the customers. They are unethical. This is the epitome of high pressure sales.) If you go to a home show, you need to know about spas and prices before you go, otherwise, you most likely will be taken advantage of. HOME SHOW WISDOM CLICK HERE

13/ Buy spas that are ANSI/NSPI(Click here) conformant. The largest manufacturer of portable spas does not follow these engineering design rules. These rules are their to protect consumers and are not subject to interpretation.

14/ At the present time, there are no valid rewards or awards in the possession of any spa company. Do not fall prey to awards that are paid for advertizing. Do not fall for the Consumer's Digest logo used on brochures, because that too is paid advertising. Do not fall for the NSPI awards to the spa company that gives the most money to the organization. Do not fall prey to "Star Ratings on Pool and Spa" it is paid advertizing. The spa industry is full of tricks to play with the uninformed consumer. The more out of date and rich the company is, it seems the more money they have. That is only because spa shoppers do not know anything about spas. All of the advertizing on earth cannot change a poorly designed products engineering.

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Whew! now that the salesman pitch is out of the way...

Make sure you have a good pool service person located as well.

You don't want to leave it without water testing or chemicals for long stretches of time.

Bad PH and lack of sanitizer can ruin a tub quickly. You also don't want to rely on your renters to take care of it. If you have renters using it you may need someone to go by and check your tub daily. For instance if the renters don't know that bubble bath is not good for a hot tub or other random food or drinks for that matter, your nice tub can become nasty or even worse clog the filters and burn up in a short time.

Resorts and hotels that provide hot tubs and pools usually have someone who cleans, checks chemical levels and adds sanitizer several times daily.

In the winter if you get hard freezes you also don't want to find out that something tripped your GFI and have your tub freeze up between weeks that you visit.

Don't mean to scare you but these are some things you should consider. I am pretty *** about my sanitizer and water quality. Even with Ozone and other "Automatic" sanitizers you still need to add a chemical sanitizer regularly to keep water clear and healthy.

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Shopping list for your spa search.

1/ Look for spas that are easier to repair. As the spa ages, you do not want to spend extra money on labor, especially on leaks. The equipment should be spread out so one component is not in the way of removing the other. All of the side panels should be removable, and the spa should not be filled with dense foam to interfere with repairs. (Don't buy a luxury car and fill the hood full of foam!). The smaller tubing needs support with foam to keep it from shaking and leaking, so some foam support is needed. The standard design from 27 years ago is to stuff the cabinet with foam, then place the equipment in a box in front of the spa. This is not only a poor design for repairs, it is bad in terms of heat build up on the pumps and the plumbing has multiple consessions in design. It is much better to allow air space around the equipment. If you place the equipment in a large container as in a thermal pane spa, the heat is dissapated and the equipment is easy to access. If you have a leak in the plumbing, buried in the foam,in a fully foamed spa, it is very expensive to fix. How do you find it?

2/ Look for spas with standard parts. There are several companies that make readily available high quality parts. The word "EXCLUSIVE", means just what it says. You are excluded from buying parts from other suppliers. If they have exclusive parts that you like, check around to see how much they cost to replace. I certainly would not pay $500 for a heater manifold. Most all the major brands have some ridiculous prices on parts. All of the manufactures of spas use outside manufacturers for the various parts. If they buy enough parts, then they can have the parts "bastardized" so that they cannot be replaced with the standard part. There is no difference in quality between "exclusive" parts and non-exclusive. In most cases the non exclusive parts are stronger. One large company places the motor frame on the pump on a 45 degree angle, so that you can't even replace it with a better brand of motor. You are stuck with an inferior part and "pay thorugh the nose" for it.

3/ Look for spas that are fully insulated and not fully foamed. A fully foamed-in spa is not, by any stretch of science, the most energy efficient spa. Spas that capture the heat from the equipment and keep cold air off the components and plumbing are efficient. A fully insulated spa has foam on the shell, warm air chamber, and the walls of the cabinet have foam boards. The cabinet is closed with no vents that allow cold air to enter the cabinet except by vacuum. DAIT Click Here

4/ Look for spas with acrylic backed by vinyl ester bonding resin and hand rolled fiberglass with glass cloth or chop. This is the shell with the most history for strength, reparability, and beauty. (When something better comes along I'll be the first to let you know.) The cheaper spas will use a composite of Acrylic and ABS, or another plastic and ABS with no structural fiberglass. Then the cabinet is stuffed with structural foam to hold it up. This is a cause of many problems that result in expensive repairs and more expense to heat the water.

5/ Look for quality electronics. Right now Gecko makes the best (in my experience) and Balboa is very good.

6/ Look for spas that have good clean plumbing. If the pump can put out 200 gallons per minute and it is running at 150, there is something wrong with the design. If a diverter valve is used, make sure it is NOT the first thing the pump hits in the plumbing path. If the diverter valve is the first plumbing part after the pump, then the spa is poorly plumbed. I call this "diverter first" plumbing. Look for few turns in the main plumbing. A poorly installed diverter valve means that people have to wait their turn for the jets. The diverter valve is similar to driving you car with the brakes on, in which the engine works harder to do less work. If you cannot run all the jets at full pressure at the same time, then the spa has a diverter valve, restricting the flow.

7/ Look for bypass filtering with check valves on the main jet pumps. This insures proper water flow to the jets. It also follows the ANSI standards for safety. (The worse design is the no bypass plumbing on spa pumps because it limits the water flow and as the filters get dirty, the jet pressure drops. These spas have weak jet pressure to begin with and water diverters.)

8/ Look for pumps that are mounted to reduce noise. We use rubber mounting pads, solid 2 x 4 frames and lag screws to hold the pumps solid and get rid of "sounding boards" (thin plywood or plastic). Listen to the pumps running on high with all the equipment going. If you can't have a conversation, don't buy it. All you should hear is water!

9/ The length of a warranty on the spa should not be the primary reason for buying. Warranties are hidden "insurance policies" in the spa that you are paying for. It is built into the price of the spa. For instance, our least expensive spas have a one year parts and labor warranty for a reason. It is to make them affordable. Our high end spas have 5 years parts and labor. The same brand of components, same shell construction, same plumbing parts brands. ( When I hear a salesperson say: "we put our money where our mouth is". They mean "we put your money in our pockets and manipulate the interpretation".)

10/ Look for reasonable prices. A one horsepower (1.65 hp), one speed jet pump spa with no air jets (air injection) being sold for $6000 is a rip off. Look for the features per dollar of the spa as well as design and construction materials. Do not purchase any spa that you do not understand about the equipment being used. Find out the real HP, motor size, brand of motor, brand of electronics and jets.

11/ Avoid spas that use a tiny 24 hour circulation pump that produces less than 18 GPM. (Unless of course you want to buy scum balls, scum bags, scum bug, extra shock and water clarifiers, and enzyme treatments to help get the scum out of the water.)

12/ Don't be "sold" on a spa by a salesman. If you feel pressure and manipulation, get up and walk out. The deal they have now that is so good, may be even better tomorrow. Research the products and take some "salt" with you so you can take everything as they say with "a grain of salt". Make your decision to purchase at a later time based on knowledge. ( There is a company that goes around with trailers and RV's with a sign on the trailer saying "LIQUIDATION SALE". The spas they sell are lacking in cold weather insulation, not fully finished, and are being sold for about $1000 more than a comparable spa. They say if you don't buy now, you will miss out on the best deal. They also don't take care of the customers. They are unethical. This is the epitome of high pressure sales.) If you go to a home show, you need to know about spas and prices before you go, otherwise, you most likely will be taken advantage of. HOME SHOW WISDOM CLICK HERE

13/ Buy spas that are ANSI/NSPI(Click here) conformant. The largest manufacturer of portable spas does not follow these engineering design rules. These rules are their to protect consumers and are not subject to interpretation.

14/ At the present time, there are no valid rewards or awards in the possession of any spa company. Do not fall prey to awards that are paid for advertizing. Do not fall for the Consumer's Digest logo used on brochures, because that too is paid advertising. Do not fall for the NSPI awards to the spa company that gives the most money to the organization. Do not fall prey to "Star Ratings on Pool and Spa" it is paid advertizing. The spa industry is full of tricks to play with the uninformed consumer. The more out of date and rich the company is, it seems the more money they have. That is only because spa shoppers do not know anything about spas. All of the advertizing on earth cannot change a poorly designed products engineering.

1/ dont be missled by bias people who think ONLY THEY are right and everyone else is wrong. Do your own well rounded research because in the end you have to live with your decision.

B)

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1/ dont be missled by bias people who think ONLY THEY are right and everyone else is wrong. Do your own well rounded research because in the end you have to live with your decision.

B)

Jim is allowed his opinion also, but remember kia...his is simply that his opinion. Some consumers would rather not have "his" list of recomondations and would like there own based on there research. Not one shoved down there throat.

To me it sounds like you need a good local dealer, that needs to be involved in your maintainence needs now and down the road, starting with water maintenence when the tub is new right up to if there ever is a problem down the road. Unless your renters are going to help with maintenence, but somehow I dout that. Most quality brands have very few problems, so don't let those who try and make it sound like something will break every week sway your choice, maybe there brands break every week but not most.

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Jim is allowed his opinion also, but remember kia...his is simply that his opinion. Some consumers would rather not have "his" list of recomondations and would like there own based on there research. Not one shoved down there throat.

To me it sounds like you need a good local dealer, that needs to be involved in your maintainence needs now and down the road, starting with water maintenence when the tub is new right up to if there ever is a problem down the road. Unless your renters are going to help with maintenence, but somehow I dout that. Most quality brands have very few problems, so don't let those who try and make it sound like something will break every week sway your choice, maybe there brands break every week but not most.

Roger is right stick to one of the major local dealers and you will enjoy which ever spa you chose. They will take care of your needs and not leave you to installing failing parts the first week you own the spa.

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