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2001 sundance altamar leaking from bottom help!


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Hi  I hope someone here can help

 

I got a 2001 sundance altamar for free this spring  it needed work had 2 leaks which we fixed and enjoy it twice a day

I had noticed water level dropping about 1.5-2 inch per week but chalked it up to us using it so much.  I had  the sides off  and poked around and noticed the foam is wet on the bottom nearer the middle

a lot of the foam was removed on the sides of tub due to rodents (previous owner said) I repacked it with roxul  insulation  the roxul is bone dry

we left the tub off for 48 hours after making water level  it did NOT drop

we ran recirculating pump for 24 hours  NO drop

we ran the 2 speed filtration pump for 12 hours NO drop

we ran the 1 speed pump (message seat and footwell jets) for 12 hours water level dropped   (i had diverter in the middle  now I will pick chair then footwell jets to figure out which side)

this "circuit"  has the message seat jets which were dry when i opened it and the 2 foot well and one side jet side jet was also dry  there are also 3 suction lines

I have tried fix a leak 3 times no luck

its getting cold here (Toronto Canada) so I want to try and fix before winter  I plan on tunneling into the foam where its wettest as there is a suction line a foot or so in

 

anyone dealt with this tub any plumbing diagrams?

  I would prefer not to tip it up but I may have to if leak is on bottom middle   this thing weighs a ton!

 

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4 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

The footwell jets are notorious for leaks, and a huge pita to fix.

you mean the two under the lounge seat?  see pic  is the actual jets or the lines/fittings  or the jet gasket in your experience? because I would need to order parts that can take me weeks to get. looks to me that the ONLY way I can get to it would be to tip it up again and tunnel in from the bottom....  My concern is that while tipped up I cant have water in it to see the actual leak(s)

do you happen to know the part numbers of those jets or what they call them  I would like to look them up in a parts diagram so I can see what's involved

 

the pic is when i got the tub  its currently down and being used

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41 minutes ago, Cusser said:

Try leak seal liquid, no joke.  I have a 1988 CalSpa and have had a leak at the side 8" from my home's wall - of course; so I have used leak seal up to twice a year for over a decade, it does work.  I've used both these brands, and I buy online.

https://www.spadepot.com/Seal-a-Leak-Spa-Leak-Sealer-16oz-P790

https://www.amazon.com/Fix-Leak-Pool-Sealer-32/dp/B003K1E99Y/ref=pd_lpo_86_t_1/144-0995182-2396007?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003K1E99Y&pd_rd_r=39b2dfe5-db08-4b52-9671-295b07d7f95f&pd_rd_w=Et8gQ&pd_rd_wg=OwFVs&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=W0R1H5ANZSH93Y19AYP3&psc=1&refRID=W0R1H5ANZSH93Y19AYP3

thanks tried it 3 times this one  http://www.fixaleak.com/  it did not even slow it down last  time  i ran pumps for 8 hours drained tub and left it empty for 6 days I used 3-4 more ounces then recommended 2nd time

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I am West of Milton. If you can't get at it from the sides while down and in place you might want to flip the spa completely over. The Sundance and Jacuzzi bottoms are part of the structure and if stood up without the bottom on the frame work might flex off square and you could have trouble getting the bottom back on depending on how old and rotted (if rotted) the wood is. 

Remove the foot well jets and pump return covers and try and get a good look at the seal in between the jet body and acrylic to see if the seal/o-rings are deteriorated. As a hail mary run a bead of marine grade silicone around the gaps in between the acrylic and jet bodies, pump returns and around any lights. I would try this before standing/flipping the spa.

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5 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

I am West of Milton. If you can't get at it from the sides while down and in place you might want to flip the spa completely over. The Sundance and Jacuzzi bottoms are part of the structure and if stood up without the bottom on the frame work might flex off square and you could have trouble getting the bottom back on depending on how old and rotted (if rotted) the wood is. 

Remove the foot well jets and pump return covers and try and get a good look at the seal in between the jet body and acrylic to see if the seal/o-rings are deteriorated. As a hail mary run a bead of marine grade silicone around the gaps in between the acrylic and jet bodies, pump returns and around any lights. I would try this before standing/flipping the spa.

the spa controller and that black plastic its attached to is in the way for side access and its a LONG reach!

I redid all the wood when I got this spa as it was rotted so it supports itself fine on its side

I'm not convinced its the seals between the tub and jets  as it 100% leaks when I run the footwell jets When the tub is left idle  the water level does NOT drop

 

I'm in Ajax  can you recommend anyone out this way? be a long drive for you!  if I cant get this fixed myself

 

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If it only leaks with the pumps on it is a pressure leak, which is not the gasket. I would stand it up and see, the leak point will be discolored. Plan to replace, not repair with epoxy or some flex seal stuff. Unless you want to do it again next year.

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5 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

If it only leaks with the pumps on it is a pressure leak, which is not the gasket. I would stand it up and see, the leak point will be discolored. Plan to replace, not repair with epoxy or some flex seal stuff. Unless you want to do it again next year.

Thanks

you wouldn't happen to have a pic of what discoloration  of the leak looks like exactly

 

I'm off next week so weather permitting I plan on probing  from the sides with some dowel  to find the wettest area(s)  and if possible tunnel in from the side

what would you recommend  I replace the spry foam on the bottom of the tub with?  a small hole I can re-foam but if the areas large  the foam kits are expensive here 

 

I have pretty good side access due to previous owners rodent problem

  pics from reconstruction long completed    this was a test frame and fill  bottom corners are round

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You could re insulate with Rock Wool insulation. If worried about it getting wet bag it in Contractor garbage bags and Tuck tape it tightly.

The discolouration will be a reddish brown  colour. 

Look closely at the air injection lines. Critters will just nip a hole in these lines enough to drip/leak so they have a nice warm safe place with a water source. Turn on the air injection valves when testing.

Another way to test instead of standing it up is to have the bottom off and place the spa up on blocks or jack stands with enough support to fill it up a bit or even full and run it. Then you can see under the spa to tell exactly the area it is dripping and leaking. Make sure to have a block or a jack stand with a wood block/2x4  under the foot well to support it there.

Quite the project you have going. Good luck. 

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1 hour ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

You could re insulate with Rock Wool insulation. If worried about it getting wet bag it in Contractor garbage bags and Tuck tape it tightly.

The discolouration will be a reddish brown  colour. 

Look closely at the air injection lines. Critters will just nip a hole in these lines enough to drip/leak so they have a nice warm safe place with a water source. Turn on the air injection valves when testing.

Another way to test instead of standing it up is to have the bottom off and place the spa up on blocks or jack stands with enough support to fill it up a bit or even full and run it. Then you can see under the spa to tell exactly the area it is dripping and leaking. Make sure to have a block or a jack stand with a wood block/2x4  under the foot well to support it there.

Quite the project you have going. Good luck. 

Thanks  you guys have been very helpful!

we got the tub for free  cost me $300.00  to have it moved from guys house to my backyard  a $400 in wire and disconnect $200.00 in lumber to reframe we were willing to risk $1000.00  the pics above were bare bones frame   just for a fill and test run.  had a snl3 error (i think it was) thought we were dead in the water I found a loose wire fixed it.  it ran we used it for a few days.  I fully reframed it built new sides   and its been good all summer our plan is if were still using it after a year is to buy a new one when this one starts acting up.  it was a lot of work  gave me something to do since we couldn't travel this year  

I do have some jackstands  6 I think  I can always buy some fence posts  to stand it up on   now I just need to talk some guys into helping me lift this thing....

Quote

 

 

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53 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Really just need to get it high enough to see under it to see where the leak is...then call some friends to stand it up. 

 it has to go up first as it has a very thick black plastic sheet on the bottom  ill need to remove that to have any hope of spotting drips. 

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well it was a long day   drained tub stood it up removed plastic sheet on bottom  plastic was DRY  patio stones underneath DRY  foam WET over approx 1/2 bottom area

 

we put it onto 6x6  refilled hooked power back up and ran it for 6 hours  water lever dropped but NO drips at all   drained it tipped it back up  and foam still wet....  so i took  dowel and probed wettest areas  NO luck  bottom inch or so of foam is wet above that is dry  3 of us tried  incase one of use overlooked something  we did find some lines that felt wet (see pic of line(s)  confirmed by all 3 of us put plastic back on    lowered tub onto ground ran for 2 hours  lines we felt wet are accessible from sides we just checked they are now dry.....

 

I will continue my search if  weather says rain next few days....

 

 

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15 hours ago, contact634 said:

lever dropped but NO drips at all   

??? So, where did the water go? Something had to be dripping. I remove the plastic sheet and set it up on cinder blocks so I can get under it. Be sure it is well supported under the footwell as well as the edges.

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2 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

??? So, where did the water go? Something had to be dripping. I remove the plastic sheet and set it up on cinder blocks so I can get under it. Be sure it is well supported under the footwell as well as the edges.

loose  about 2-2.5 inch every 7 days   foam is wet  for about 1/2  the bottom surface area its wet approx 1 inch deep from bottom.  we removed plastic it was dry as were patio stones underneath  refilled and ran it   we ran it NO dripping  stood it back up and poked and felt around  dug into wettest area  and found some lines that were wet.

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May have found the leak

the lines we felt wet yesterday  were NOT wet today  but im sure they were leaking so i felt around and when moved a pin hole opens up  either dripping or misting  the drip was steady enough that  it would be a lot of water  they are AIR lines  when I turn the bubbler off  the lines fill with water  and I guess depending on vibration and such the pin hole would leak or not

I could only see the leak with my very bright spotlight  it showed the discoloration on the hose where the pinhole is located

 

 

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On 10/14/2020 at 7:20 AM, contact634 said:

Look closely at the air injection lines. Critters will just nip a hole in these lines enough to drip/leak so they have a nice warm safe place with a water source. Turn on the air injection valves when testing.

Yep...

pretty easy fix once found. Just cut it at the hole and add one of these 3/8" line couplers https://www.poolandhottubdepot.com/pvc-coupling-3-8-barb-x-3-8-barb/

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Got this fixed on Sunday   found two small leaks same line same area cut out and put new hose about 6 inches   wrapped entire are in kleenex  and used the tub as normal.  checked yesterday  NO water on Kleenex  put my hand under tub  as far as I could  between plastic and foam and so far foam is dry

I have marked the water level  and will keep an eye on it

 

what's "normal" water loss  from use per week?

tub kept at 38  with cover on 

outside temp low of 8  high of 16  lots of steam coming off when you use it 

 

recirc pump runs 12 hours  filtration pump runs about 4 per 24 hour

2 adults using it approx 1 hour per day total (morning and night)  

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