mscdman Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 I have a few questions - I’ll be honest, I’m trying to save some money while still having sanitized safe water. My questions are: 1) instead of starting with the sodium bromide and then keeping bromine tablets in a floater (what I’m trying to avoid) could I instead start up a fresh filled tub, then add sodium bromide granular and then just shock everytime I got out of the tub? Obviously as water level dropped I’d add more sodium bromide. To me this seems way cheaper than to have constant tabs being dissolved. Will this work/be effective ? If so, how often if it’s being used a few times a week should more sodium bromide be added? 2) are brom tabs in a floater cheaper than the frog cartridge system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 1) That is EXACTLY what you should do. Tablet floaters are the second worst thing you can do to your spa. 2) Don't care. Wouldn't recommend either, but I am a fan of silver ion purifiers such as spa frog and nature2. I just wouldn't use the floater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, RDspaguy said: 1) That is EXACTLY what you should do. Tablet floaters are the second worst thing you can do to your spa. 2) Don't care. Wouldn't recommend either, but I am a fan of silver ion purifiers such as spa frog and nature2. I just wouldn't use the floater. Thank you sir. Then I have a few other questions. How often should I add sodium bromide? And should I use the 99% sodium bromide or the leisure branded one which appears to be only 15% concentrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 At fill, and a bit any time you add water, which you should be changing every 3-4 months if using a silver ion purifier. Incidentally, some silver ion purifiers say that they are not compatible with bromine, others market a bromine combo. FYI. Get the 99%. You can shock with dichlor, but will still have to monitor cya and switch to liquid if you get over 40ppm. Non-chlorine shock throws off your test readings and has a high ph, but will do the trick. Just don't test for at least 4 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: At fill, and a bit any time you add water, which you should be changing every 3-4 months if using a silver ion purifier. Incidentally, some silver ion purifiers say that they are not compatible with bromine, others market a bromine combo. FYI. Get the 99%. You can shock with dichlor, but will still have to monitor cya and switch to liquid if you get over 40ppm. Non-chlorine shock throws off your test readings and has a high ph, but will do the trick. Just don't test for at least 4 hours. You rock!! Thank you! Do you advise I use chlorine or non chlorine based shock with the bromide? It seems per what you just said both have disadvantages. Also How much shock in a 250 gallon tub would you typically add each use? sorry for al the questions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well, I havent used bromine in decades, and when I did I was taught to use non-chlorine shock (mps). That may well be one of the reasons I stopped using bromine. I am not a fan of mps with other systems either. So I would say use chlorine, but can't say how much. Maybe our bromine fans @Cusser and @dllenocan offer some advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 12 hours ago, RDspaguy said: 1) That is EXACTLY what you should do. Tablet floaters are the second worst thing you can do to your spa. 2) Don't care. Wouldn't recommend either, but I am a fan of silver ion purifiers such as spa frog and nature2. I just wouldn't use the floater. Please explain this. I've been using a bromine tablet floater in my CalSpa since 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Floaters tend to end up in, or in front of, the skimmer. Bromine (and chlorine) tablets are acidic, and primarily consist of chlorine, so you end up pulling high concentrations of acidic sanitizer through your equipment, even with balanced water, which in my experience most tablet users do not have 4 days out of each week. This can, over time, damage your heater, pump, filter, glue joints, o-rings, mazzei injectors, diverter valves, etc... Don't you have a leaking jandy valve? Also, as with any continuous feed sanitizer system, you will have continuous gas off of chemicals that slowy ruin your cover, pillows, topside controllers, handrails, and anything else between the water and the cover. Bromine gas off is much less than chlorine, but your tabs are partly chlorine, there to oxidize your bromide bank, and still gas off some while doing so. If you add a fast acting chlorine, like dichlor or bleach, (or even use mps) the gas off is mostly over in 30 minutes or so, allowing you to release those fumes before you close your cover. That's why we recommend leaving the cover open after adding chemicals. Floaters are ok for when you are out of town or other limited use, but in my experience will cost you more in the long run if used continuously. Residual levels also play a part, since the tablets rate of feed determines the available bromine. But as the bromine use rate is determined by the level of organic contaminants in the water, which vary based on many factors, the bromine level can fluctuate with varying circumstances. And high bromine levels just compound the situation. If you shock manually in addition to the tablets the effect is greatly reduced, as the tablet feed rate can be much slower due to the oxidation provided by the shock. But if you are shocking regularly anyway, you don't really need the tablets. A high residual is not needed in a covered spa, as new contaminants are not entering the water with the cover on. But the bottom line, @Cussermy friend, is most spa owners aren't industrial chemists, and bad maintenance practices abound in this business. In my experience, older spas that used floaters have many more and frequent issues than those that didn't. There are, of course, always exceptions. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 This is awesome stuff guys!!! Thanks. I think I’ll stick to my plan to manually shock after each use vs. bromine tabs. @Cusser I’d still like to know how much shock to add after each use if it’s just me. 1 tablespoon? Also what’s your take in if I should use chlorine or non chlorine shock if I’m going to be doing what I describe (mot using bromine floaters)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 19 hours ago, mscdman said: I think I’ll stick to my plan to manually shock after each use vs. bromine tabs. @Cusser I’d still like to know how much shock to add after each use if it’s just me. 1 tablespoon? Also what’s your take in if I should use chlorine or non chlorine shock if I’m going to be doing what I describe (mot using bromine floaters)? mscdman - I don't shock after each use, never have. Since 1988 I've used the 1" bromine tablets in a floater, and use monopersulfate shock maybe once or twice a week. I'd think a tablespoon of shock would be sufficient, but maybe check your available bromine level before and then 10 minutes after adding it a couple of times to help you determine if that was sufficient amount. I don't have an issue with floater hanging near the skimmer on my '88 CalSpa; in fact, I've never been able to really control/change water inlet from skimmer to main drain on it, the owner's manual is terrible. There are valve handles on the top for which I never have been able to determine their real function !!! I've been through like 3 or 4 replacement covers over the last 32 years; my spa is under my patio roof but still gets Arizona sun, more in winter when the sun is lower. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cusser said: mscdman - I don't shock after each use, never have. Since 1988 I've used the 1" bromine tablets in a floater, and use monopersulfate shock maybe once or twice a week. I'd think a tablespoon of shock would be sufficient, but maybe check your available bromine level before and then 10 minutes after adding it a couple of times to help you determine if that was sufficient amount. I don't have an issue with floater hanging near the skimmer on my '88 CalSpa; in fact, I've never been able to really control/change water inlet from skimmer to main drain on it, the owner's manual is terrible. There are valve handles on the top for which I never have been able to determine their real function !!! I've been through like 3 or 4 replacement covers over the last 32 years; my spa is under my patio roof but still gets Arizona sun, more in winter when the sun is lower. Thank you very much. Does my idea sound workable (only seeding with bromide at start up/fill and then shocking after use vs. using the floater tabs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted October 9, 2020 Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 23 hours ago, mscdman said: Thank you very much. Does my idea sound workable (only seeding with bromide at start up/fill and then shocking after use vs. using the floater tabs)? Seems reasonable to me. No need to add additional bromide until next refill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted October 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 Thanks. Now I just have to decide if it’s better to get the shock/bromine combo or just the shock. Thinking shock/bromine combo could be better because always adds a little additional bromine when shocking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted December 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 9:47 PM, RDspaguy said: At fill, and a bit any time you add water, which you should be changing every 3-4 months if using a silver ion purifier. Incidentally, some silver ion purifiers say that they are not compatible with bromine, others market a bromine combo. FYI. Get the 99%. You can shock with dichlor, but will still have to monitor cya and switch to liquid if you get over 40ppm. Non-chlorine shock throws off your test readings and has a high ph, but will do the trick. Just don't test for at least 4 hours. @RDspaguy when you say switch to liquid you mean bleach vs dichlor? How much bleach is added as a shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 Typical household bleach is about 5% sodium hypochlorite in water; it will state concentration on the bottle, EPA regulation. Typical liquid pool chlorine (mostly sold in packs of two or four) are about twice that concentration. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 With a 5% bleach, one fluid ounce will provide approximately 1ppm chlorine in the average size spa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted December 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 Realistically if I’m using this to manually shock after each use 1/2 tsp along with my sodium bromide added at start up how fast will CYA build up? is this over kill? Maybe I should establish a bromide reserve and use MPS after each use and then add the below once a week (it also adds a little bromine bank too) https://spaandpoolstore.com/spa-essentials-brominating-concentrate-2-lbs-16-99-32362000/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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