Macgruber Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 10 years ago when I moved into my house it came with an old hot tub. At the time I was pretty naïve and I paid some random dude off kijiji to "rebuild" the tub. The "rebuild" tub ran great for about 14 months and then began to have problems tripping the breaker. We shut down the tub and then it sat for a good 6 years. After consulting with my electrician cousin we figured that the tub was not wired in for enough capacity and it eventually wore the breaker down to the point that it was acting touchy. All these years later I am a bit wiser and my handiness level went from a hard zero to maybe a solid 5 and I figured I could get it running again. I paid my cousin to come and install a new 60amp breaker and he ran 60amp (4 gauge I believe) wire out to the tub. He tried and tried but was unable to to get the wire onto the hot tub posts on the control board. He ended up wiring it in with the 60amp wire connected to a junction box and 2 feet of the old wire which was either 45 or 50amp wire) We started up the tub and it appeared to be running flawlessly. It rose from 56-95 by the time I left for work but when I got home it had a "flo error" and was not running) I jumped the pressure switch and purge cycle started up and I figured I had found my problem. Bought the new switch and installed it but it didn't solve my problems like I thought. Suddenly the tub was acting strange. The purge cycle would not purge.. the pump did nothing during this time. When fully started up the pump would only run in either an extremely low mode or a very low mode and the heater was not heating. I grabbed another pump off kijiji and it presented with the exact same issue so I figured the pump probably wasn't the culprit? I really have no idea where to look next.. am I wrong to be worried that the 2 feet of spliced lower voltage cord would be causing issues? Could it be a board issue? would the pump be not getting enough power and that is why it is acting strange? I would be so grateful for any help anyone could give... I have been very inefficiently scouring the internet and I am getting nowhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Macgruber said: it had a "flo error" Dirty filters? Remove the filters and reset the breaker. Leave the filters out until the issue is fixed. New, old, just cleaned... remove them. Not likely an electrical capacity issue. What brand of spa? Do you have and can you work a multi meter to check voltages Post photos of the circuit board and the schematic on the inside cover of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 When I first got the Flo error I put in a new filter but I haven't tried running it with no filter I will give it a try. That being said the changed pressure switch solved the flo error. Not sure what the original brand of hot tub was but I have taken a picture of the panel, pump and board below. i do have a multi-meter and am moderately comfortable using it. Just now I had the tub running and the pump was still working at very low capacity.. moving water but not much. After about 20 minutes the breaker tripped and I noticed the pump was pretty hot. Both pumps acted in exactly the same fashion in terms of pumping so I can't see the issue being the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 The pump does nothing during the purge phase where it had originally moved a bunch of water... what could that mean? The tub is not heating now.. just slowly pumping the water around. It is also giving me an FLC error now even with the pressure switch bypassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Sorry, it has been a long day. That control board picture sucked and I didn't even do what you asked. Super grateful for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 The white (common) wire to your pump 1 plug goes back to the neutral connection on the board, which means you have 120v going to your 240v pump motor. That will need to connect to the L2 phase I think, or you need a 120v pump. Also, check your pump wiring. White is common, red is high, black is low according to the diagram. On the board just to the right of the main power connection there appears to be some discoloration and a browned sticker. Also 2 discolored relays. Is that heat damage or a reflection in the pic? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 I see now that the common wire from pump 1 was plugged into J10 and from the schematic it looks to me like it should be plugged into J14. I am not quite sure I understand what you mean when you say that it needs to connect to the L2 phase? I tried changing the wiring to J14 but the pump didn't do anything. Can you spell out what you mean like I am a child:) Because I am not sure I am totally following. The discoloration is real, could that be a sign that the board has/had an issue? Beyond grateful for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 That is a sign of overheating, probably in the wire connection or the discolored relays. If it isn't an issue yet it will be soon. Your incoming power wires connect to terminals labeled L1, L2, and Neutral. L1 is usually switched power and L2 is common on 240v components, but I am not familiar with those exact controls so can't say for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 So your saying the main electrical hook-up (top left corner) may actually be wrong? How would I confirm whether or not this is the case? If I were to switch them and it wasn't right would I do damage/be dangerous? Just so I am clear, which colour of wires should be in which L1, L2 and neutral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Please confirm the white wire coming from pump 1 receptacle is going to J14 Incoming power wires looks good to me. Was the original pump 120VAC? @Macgruber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Ummm...no. The heat damage could be a loose wire terminal, but more likely is worn contacts in the relays. The incoming power wires are in the right terminals, what I meant is that I am not sure on that board where the 240v pump connection is, but I suspect it is on the L2 side, not the L1. You can check this by testing the black or red pump wire to the L2 terminal. You will have 240v if I am right, and 0v if wrong. There could be a difference in voltage between the j10 and j14 connections, I can't tell from the pics. What was the voltage on the original pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Lol... I really gotta read what people post...lol @RDspaguy thanks for the backup the other day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 I have changed the wire coming from the pump to J14. In my original picture of the schematic some of the information relating to the pump was cut off on the bottom, it may be pertinent?. After looking closely at the pumps I realize now that the original pump says 115v and the second pump that is currently installed is 230v. When looking closely at the schematic I noticed some other connections don't appear to be in the right spot. The black wire from the transformer on the left was originally in J9 or J10 but the schematic says it should go to J23 and have a Fuse on it. Am I confused on how to read the schematic? I am blown away by your patience and generosity in helping me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said: Lol... I really gotta read what people post...lol @RDspaguy thanks for the backup the other day No thanks needed brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 If you trace back that line in the diagram with the fuse you see it is labeled red (R) at one end and black (B) at the other. I suspect the connection is in the board, and the red wire with the fuse is that fuse. It's hard to tell from the pics, are those spade terminals on the discolored spot by the sticker? If so, connect your white pump wire there. If it doesn't work, move it to the spade terminal by the bottom power terminal near the red wire. Make sure power is off when moving the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 You are right that there is a wire with a fuse in the middle that is on the board. Both ends of the wire are red. So based on the schematic where should the black wire from the transformer be attached? Once I am sure it is hook up right I will try some electrical tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Found a more clear schematic online. Looks like the transformer connects to J12. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 With the white cable from the pump on j14 the pump doesn't start at all. If I move it to one of the spade connectors near the burned mark sticker the pump works minimally and pressing the jets button yields this sound. pump.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Walk me through testing the voltage on the pump? Multimeter set to 200 ac volts? Touch the one end (does which colour of the probes on the meter matter?) to the point that the post where the power connects to the control board and the other end to where the pump connects to the spade connector on the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Well I realize I am talking to myself at this point but if one of you smart guys sees all of this maybe they will put it together and have some clue. Tested the power coming into the board, it was steady at 244volts. Tested the power being drawn by the pump in low speed and it was a steady 235, when I pressed the jets button and moved to test the power being drawn by the pump it lowered down to around 100 and started making the sound posted above. in the low pump setting the heater wasn't even trying to work but in the high pump setting the heater pilot light came on and it tried to start heating. I guess that means that the heater was pulling power from the pump so it couldn't work properly? What could be causing the lack of power, from looking at the schematic doesn't it seem like the board by default would be wired for a high voltage pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Alright, one last update. Changed out for the old 115volt pump but everything acted the same. I tested the voltage with the pump plugged into J14 and got absolutely no reading. I don't quite understand the parameters it is asking for to use a 120volt pump so maybe I need to do something differently to make it work properly with the 115volt pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Your video is unavailable. Check voltage to the pump at the pump connections, from j14 to high and low. You should have 120v or so. If you do not, there is a problem with the circuit board or main power supply. The heater has nothing to do with the voltage drop. You can't drop voltage on a parallel circuit, and your heater is in parallel to your pump while both are in series with their individual relays and the breaker. If your voltage drops to only the pump it's something in series on the pump circuit, such as a failing relay. If it only drops on low it is almost certainly the low speed relay. If your voltage drops at the heater as well it is something before the point where the heater and pump circuits separate, such as the breaker or main power connection. Given the info and heat damage, my bet is relay. We're all volunteers here, and do this in our spare time. Sometimes we don't have as much spare time as others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgruber Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 I am super grateful for how much people have spent helping me. I just wanted to keep things updated so if someone did have time they could help. No matter what I did I couldn't get any power to come out of the J14. Maybe because I was hooking the pump up at a spot that wasn't designed for the pump to draw power the load wasn't being separated properly. From reading the literature from the board it says that in 120V mode will only heat on one pump setting.. so it made sense to me that when I switched to the second jet setting where heating was possible the pilot light would come on and power to the pump would drop. In the end I can only see it being a bad board.. nothing else really makes sense. Thanks so much for all your help. Hopefully the $300 dropped on a board will solve the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 J14 is a neutral connection, so if tested to ground it will not have voltage. It must be tested to the other pump terminals. So one lead on j14, the other on low or high speed terminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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