First Time Purchase - Help!

[amityeric]

First-time spa purchaser! 22 yr anniversary present. 
 

I’ve narrowed it down to:

1. Artesian Captiva 46

2. West Coast Spas Deschutes

 

Both spas with similar options are fairly close in price. The Deschutes is about $600 less overall (and that includes a $300 delivery charge since they’re in Oregon about 30 minutes south of us). If not for that delivery charge, it would be about $900 less. 
 

Both have 2 5-HP motors. Artesian uses Balboa pumps, WCS uses Waterway pumps. 
 

Both have similar # of jets. WCS has more bells/whistles with LEDs, etc. (not that important to me; I want longevity). 
 

The Deschutes has a better overall warranty (5 yrs on the plumbing; 3 on the pumps, etc.). The Artesian has 3 years on plumbing/electrical. 
 

The Deschutes comes with a cover lifter as well. 
 

Artesian has a dealer here in town (Vancouver, WA) that’s been around since the seventies. Well regarded for after-sale service. 
 

WCS is in Milwaukee (30 minutes south of us in Oregon). They have rebranded a couple times over the years from what I’ve been told. They make the spas themselves.
 

Any thoughts on which way to go? Thank you in advance. 

[amityeric]

No thoughts? Maybe nobody is familiar with West Coast spas. Anyone able to tell me anything about Balboa vs Waterway pumps? Any help appreciated. Sorry to bump this thread, but hoping to make a decision soon and hoping for as much information as I can find. Any help appreciated. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Personally never heard of WCS but I'm in Canada so....

I see the WCS uses a Waterway Spa Pack. Have not seen many in the field and have only seen them when they first started as a pack supplier several years ago. It was a different looking setup and it appears to have not caught on and they have now gone to a more traditional board set up. The fact that it is such a small company that has changed hands a few times as you say worries me given the current world situation...but perhaps that works in their favor...hard to say.

Artesian Spas usually rank fairly high when the this or that question comes up. I was a little surprised at the list of "Options" that could raise the price beyond what you expect. 

 • Pump/Heater Valves...odd that it is an option...• PermaBase ABS Pan, Led lighting, ozone

As you do your research you will find many professionals on the service side say that a reputable dealer with a long proven history should be near the top of your decision making process and I agree. When looking at HP ratings take them with a grain of salt. To truly know the HP you have to look at the AMP draw ratings on the pumps. On Waterway pumps a 10 amp is a 3 hp high speed 12 amp high speed is a 4 hp a 16 amp is a 5 HP. Companies will use Brake HP and might call a 12 amp motor a 5hp.

Long story short I would be leaning towards the Artesian...but a wet/dry test might tell you a different story if one "fits" you better. God Luck. Let us know what you decide  

[amityeric]

Hey there CanadianSpaTech . . . 

Thank you SO MUCH for your response. 

WCS has been in business for . . . I don't know how long! I'll have to call and talk to them tomorrow. They have almost all 5 star reviews on Google (23 reviews) and Yelp going back about 6 years. They have been accredited on the BBB since 2013. So . . . at least 9 years. 

Haven Spa (the dealer for the Artesian) has been in business for 45 years (according to the BBB website). I think they said they were in business before doing hot tubs since the mid-seventies but that they changed their name and focus. They have 80+ Google reviews going back about 4 years. 

It would be interesting to me to compare the innards a bit more closely but I'm not sure how to do that. I spent some time looking for the exact pump used in each model I'm interested in (Artesian Captiva 42 and West Coast Spa Deschutes). I can't find the amp draw ratings on the pumps. I have no idea how to find that information. 

The Artesian has two 1-speed 4.8HP pumps (brake HP). The Deschutes has two 5.0HP pumps (not sure if 1-speed or 2-speed or if it's brake HP). I'd love to know EXACTLY which pumps they are so I can compare a bit more easily. 

All said, the Artesian is $8,820 and the Deschutes is $7900. 

Artesian Captiva, 2 4.8HP pumps, 46 jets, 84x84, 3 year warranty on plumbing/electrical, 5 LED lights, Frog SmartChlor, Ozone, 24hr circ pump

WCS Deschutes, 2 5.0HP pumps, 50 jets, 86x86, 3 year warranty on electrical/5 year on plumbing, 20+ LED lights, ozone, 24hr circ pump, cover lift & steps included

I definitely want the most powerful tub I can get. I want the best insulated tub I can get. I want the best service I can get. I'm suffering from buyer's paralysis at the moment. The Artesian has better name recognition and a dealer that's been around longer, so I'm leaning that way, but I can get more spa for $1K less. I could have a nice 8x8 concrete paver pad installed for that price. I don't know. 

Anyway, I appreciate ANY and ALL responses. Thank you CanadianSpaTech for giving me some time. 

 

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Have you gone to the store for either one and actually sat in them wet or dry? Ask for a wet test if they say not at this time (Covid) Don't be shy take off your shoes and get in dry. Get a feel for each seat. Think "floaty"..when running you will float a bit and get pushed forward a bit is the seat. How does your feet meet the foot massage jets. The seats next to the filter basket/housing..do your arms fit comfortably sitting next to it. I have been in some spas where my left arm is good but the right arm closest to the housing is not comfortable and a bit awkward. There is an extra seat in the WSC...but at what cost

If they have a spa running but you can't wet test (Covid) use the back of your hand instead of your palm to feel the pressure. The back of your hand is more like your body then your rough palm. Get them to open up a panel and look inside. See the build quality. See the insulation. 

5 hours ago, amityeric said:

I'm suffering from buyer's paralysis at the moment.

In the end they seem closely matched and regardless if you choose one or the other you will be happy to enjoy your new hot tub and the buying process will be long forgotten once you are sitting in it.

When all else fails I say flip a coin and get tubbin

[amityeric]

Lol, great response. Thank you VERY much! 

[PNW Soaker]

Yea you've got the price and features so comparable that it will probably just come down to which one you like to use more. If you have trouble with the Balboa stuff you know a fair number of people have tubs with that equipment so it could be a little easier to service.

If you go with the other one though it looks like you're supporting a newer Oregon company  and you can share your experiences with them and the tub. 

[amityeric]

I'm leaning toward the Artesian. They're throwing in a cover lifter to make it a little more comparable. I'm close to pulling the trigger. The only thing stopping me now is the pumps are 5.0 HP (according to the brochure) -- 2.5 continuous. I don't know what that means. I just hope it's powerful enough for me. I can't do a wet test unfortunately. So I'm wondering . . . does anyone have an Artesian with similar pumps? How's the pressure? THANK YOU! 

[amityeric]

Hey Folks, 

Thank you for your help. I bought the Artesian Captiva 46 today. It will be delivered after December 1. I have acquired the services of an electrician (OUCH on the $$). I'm now considering what sort of pad I want to put the hot tub on. I have a concrete pad on the side of my house (big) but it's not totally level. Also, it's not lush and pretty over there. So I want to put the pad more out in my back yard. 

I've been looking around for DIY pads and I came across this video and I really like what I see. I wanted my landscaper to pour a concrete pad but with the price of the electrician I think I want to try this to save $1k. Can I get any feedback on an install like this? I have plans to make the pad and later I will make a path to it and possibly extend it in order to put some natural flagstone around the edges. 

I plan on video documenting every stage of the project, from the pad, to the electrical (what the electrician will let me record), to the delivery, to the drinking of the IPA with friends on the first winter night. 

 

[ratchett]

Congratulations happy you've selected a tub, December isn't too bad all things considered (my Hotspring dealer is quoting new customers 8 months currently!)

7 hours ago, amityeric said:

I have a concrete pad on the side of my house (big) but it's not totally level. Also, it's not lush and pretty over there. So I want to put the pad more out in my back yard. 

Few things to keep in mind, first on a cold winter night you are not going to want to dash across the yard after soaking in 100F degree water, regardless what kind of robes you have.  Most people like to place their spa close to the house so you can run inside as fast as possible after getting out of the tub haha.    Keep that in mind when determining the placement of the tub.

Next, you don't need 100% level, you need a flat surface.  Most all concrete has a slight slope for drainage.  As long as all jets are covered with water is all that matters.   Some tubs (but not all) are designed with jets slightly higher on one side and *slightly* lower on the other side to account for a this slope.  If you can look at some pictures online of your new tub, you might be able to identify which is the "high" side so you know which way to position the tub for installation.   Although it's hard to tell if there is a "high" side with that Artesian from the overhead photos listed online. 

Good luck with delivery!

[CanadianSpaTech]

Pro Tip: For those that have to travel to get to the spa in cold temps...place robe/towel in dryer and get it warmed up. Have a Coleman cooler that you can take out with you and place the robe into cooler while tubbibg and it will be nice and warm for you when you get out.

[amityeric]

4 hours ago, ratchett said:

Next, you don't need 100% level, you need a flat surface.  Most all concrete has a slight slope for drainage.  As long as all jets are covered with water is all that matters.   Some tubs (but not all) are designed with jets slightly higher on one side and *slightly* lower on the other side to account for a this slope.  If you can look at some pictures online of your new tub, you might be able to identify which is the "high" side so you know which way to position the tub for installation.   Although it's hard to tell if there is a "high" side with that Artesian from the overhead photos listed online. 

Hm. Well, my side patio is not level enough, I'd say. I read somewhere that there shouldn't be more than a 1" slope per 8 feet. My side patio is more than that. My back patio is large pavers and I'm afraid they'd crack & break. So I'm still thinking I'm going to build a pad out in the yard. I'll keep your advice in mind though and try to keep it as close to the house as possible. 

1 hour ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Pro Tip: For those that have to travel to get to the spa in cold temps...place robe/towel in dryer and get it warmed up. Have a Coleman cooler that you can take out with you and place the robe into cooler while tubbibg and it will be nice and warm for you when you get out.

Nice pro tip! That's a really smart idea.

Any thoughts on this pad I found on YouTube? 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Seems a little overkill but works. I remove the top layer of grass and dig down about another 6". Lay down 2-3" of crushed 3/4" gravel for drainage then a layer of limestone to level. Place 4x4 pressure treated or 6x6's made into a square the size of the spa's base. Then add 3 or 4 cross braces one side to the other. Place in hole onto gravel and level. Once level back fill the open voids in between the cross braces with limestone and pack down with tamper. I like to keep the top edge of the wood about 2" above grade. Mine is 10 years in and still level. Probably have had 50 different spas on it over the years of all different sizes. Just now getting to the point where I need to add a bit more limestone but only because often there are smaller or no spas on it from time to time and has washed away a bit. I only have 2 cross braces and in hindsight I should have done 4 with a couple of cross braces on the cross braces with the left over off cuts of PT wood. 

[amityeric]

Great advice and great pictures. Thank you very much for the good advice. What's that right under the spa? Is that another pad? Like an EZ Pad or something? 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Just the base of the spa sitting on the PT wood frame then limestone screening filling in between the cross braces. I need to top up on the screening as mentioned in the above post.

[amityeric]

Hmm. So you don't have the spa sitting directly on the gravel? It's actually supported by the wood? I was thinking of placing mine directly on the gravel. Bad idea? 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Bring the limestone flush with the wood so it does a bit of the support. As mentioned mine has washed away a bit from years of having many different sized spas on it. If you are putting one spa on it and leaving it there for life you won't have this issue. Again I have likely had 50 different spas on it of all possible sizes as I test and sell.

[amityeric]

Finally got my hot tub! Here's a video of the entire process I went through. Enjoy Everyone and thanks for the help. 

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Good job on the video...The only things I would have done different is I would have had 3 or 4 cross support 4x4's and then filled in between with the gravel fill to lock the frame in place. I also would have had the wood frame built to fit the base of the spa exactly and had the spa sitting on the wood and not inside the wood base on the gravel. If it is built to the size of the base the cabinet panels will overhang the wood base frame by an inch all the way around so when water runs off it will go to the outside of the wood base and not pool under it. The idea is to get the spa up off the ground to prevent standing water under the spa and keep it from rotting the spa's frame. The black plastic floor pan on that spa will likely have cuts in the corners to get it to fit if it is not "molded" creating a spot for water to penetrate and doesn't look very deep/tall. Overall a great job and nice spa. I am sure you will have years of enjoyment. Regards   

[amityeric]

Ugh. Well, OK. I obviously made a few errors but hopefully it'll last. The guys who installed it said the base is 10 times better than what they would have done for $400. They would have thrown it on the grass with 2x4s and filled it up with gravel right when they came out to deliver! Anyway, thanks for the comments. Always learning. 

I'm also hoping that there won't be standing water there . . . I thought the water would drain through the gravel. Now that you mention it, I was wondering about the wood underneath possibly rotting over the years but the guys who delivered it said it was all pressure treated wood. Didn't look like it when I saw the underside of the spa. 

I could probably improve it a couple ways. 

1. I could put a gazebo over it to keep it mostly dry.
2. I could add cross-beams when I change out the water. 

Thanks again. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Yours will be fine. My comments were more for the next guy.