Olliesykes Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hi team! I have a balboa hot tub. I have had to replace the heater twice in the last 8 months. I know that this shouldn’t be the case. They seem to last 4-6 months before blowing (trip the board and ohm tests show no current running through element). They don’t seem to show any obvious sign of damage, maybe just a bit of white and green around the connections. Does anyone know why the heaters don’t seem to be lasting too long? I am about to order another heater but wondering if I need to check or replace any other parts? could poor water health cause this? Your help would be greatly appreciated! Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Are you buying general service, teflon coated or titanium? During that 6-8 month period are you winterizing the spa and leaving it without water in the spa and the heater element exposed to the air? When you install the element are you certain that the element is not touching the sides of the heater tube...(my guess as I see it often when installed by unknowing homeowners and incompetent/newb techs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratchett Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Balboa is manufacturer of components/heaters for hottubs. It's not the company who built/assembled your tub but that doesn't really matter too much for your needs in this case 1 hour ago, Olliesykes said: could poor water health cause this? Yes, absolutely. I believe Improper pH can cause extreme premature failure of the heater. How are you currently maintaining/testing your water? Although it could be something else related to the electrical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 I would say improper water care would show signs on the element itself like calcification and would also likely take longer to fail. JMO Also they are a wear item and sometimes they just fail...6 mths or 6 years. How old is the spa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted August 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 To be honest I am a novice in the ph domain. I find that the water analysis things I have are pretty poor. It’s a bit of a guess job at the moment! any advice on this would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Can always take a water sample to your local spa store for analysis. Have them educate you at the same time with the products they sell. If you don't answer questions you will get limited help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted August 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hi Sorry I missed the questions. I have answered them all as best I can below. I have also attached pictures of the heater and the system. I really appreciate your help and time on this - thanks in advance. Many Thanks, Oliver Are you buying general service, teflon coated or titanium? I am not too sure to be honest. I have attached pictures of the Heater and the inside etc. During that 6-8 month period are you winterizing the spa and leaving it without water in the spa and the heater element exposed to the air? No I havent drained it at all. When you install the element are you certain that the element is not touching the sides of the heater tube...(my guess as I see it often when installed by unknowing homeowners and incompetent/newb techs) I bought the whole component brand new and already assembled with the element fixed inside the tubing. I would say improper water care would show signs on the element itself like calcification and would also likely take longer to fail. JMO Also they are a wear item and sometimes they just fail...6 mths or 6 years. I have shown pictures, I don't know if they give any clues to the cause of the failure?? How old is the spa? I am not too sure to be honest - I bought it second hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 In the last photo is the white area on the left from photo flash or is it a burn/flash mark from the heater element? The photos of the element it looks fairly scratched up from abrasive water perhaps? Do you fill from city water or well water? Do you get build up on the seats and in the footwell? Are the sidewalls of the spa bather area rough to the touch? How often do you clean the filters? I would guess that you need to do better with balancing the water if you want to help the heater to last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted August 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 In the last photo is the white area on the left from photo flash or is it a burn/flash mark from the heater element? it’s white on the element itself. Kinda looks like it’s been scratched. The photos of the element it looks fairly scratched up from abrasive water perhaps? Do you fill from city water or well water? it’s just from the garden hose. Do you get build up on the seats and in the footwell? yeah sometimes. Are the sidewalls of the spa bather area rough to the touch? sometimes How often do you clean the filters? not very often. There is one main filter. It doesn’t seem to get too dirty. It’s fairly light use, just me and my wife 1-2 a week if at all. I would guess that you need to do better with balancing the water if you want to help the heater to last longer. ok I think I need to order a new heater and then some proper stuff to measure and balance the water out regularly. I will be honest, I haven’t been great at that. Can you recommend a kit or equipment needed to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 Taylor k2005 test kit. I recommend the titanium element, again be sure it does not touch the tube. I insert a big screwdriver down the side to hold the element while I tighten the nuts. Also be careful with the wire terminal, it cannot twist while you tighten it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 Hi Guys so an update on this. I ordered a new element. my electrician came around to help me fit everything and get it all working. What was surprising to both of us is that the heater only seems to trip the electricity when the heat sensors are attached to the circuit board. if the heater is attached, it’s fine and no trip. Just then the sensors plug into the circuit board, it trips. what are you thoughts on this? Do you think it could be faulty sensors?? Maybe the board? i need to order whatever new parts I might needs but just wanted to see what you guys thought it couldn’t be? thanks in advance legends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 With the 2 heater wires coming off the circuit board not connected to the heater and the sensors plugged in do you get 240VAC across those 2 wires and the breaker holds? (Make sure the spa is calling for heat when testing) If yes then the heater is somehow the problem or a bad GFCI. If no then the issue is likely on the board and I would be pulling the board and looking on the backside for evidence of a burnt heater relay. Did the electrician test the GFCI? How old is the GFCI? 1 hour ago, Olliesykes said: if the heater is attached, it’s fine and no trip. But is there 240 going to the heater? Don't think the heater would get power without the sensors attached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said: Don't think the heater would get power without the sensors attached It won't, unless all 3 heater relays are stuck (extremely unlikely). 4 hours ago, Olliesykes said: then the sensors plug into the circuit board, it trips. Even if the heater is disconnected? If it trips as soon as you turn it on it is usually a ground fault. This can happen on a brand new heater if you twist the terminal post while tightening the nut on the wire/strip. It's very easy to do. If it runs for a while before tripping it is usually NOT the heater, but the ozonator, pump, or breaker. If it then stops tripping if you disconnect or disable the heater (by unplugging sensors, for example), it is almost certainly a breaker or loose connection at the breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 Ok thanks for your responses guys. please excuse my poor terminology but let me try to clarify. there are 4 connections that go from from the heater to the board. These are 2 sets of 2 as described below; a) There are 2 connections on the heater (one in each end of the heating element). These both go into one big connection in the board. b) There are 2 connections that are temperature Senor probes. Each one of these individually connect to the board. when I connect only a) up to the board and turn it on- all is fine (except heat sensor error). but no tripping. when I then try to add one or both of b) to the circuit board and turn it on, it trips. so I wonder whether there is an issue with the sensor connections / sensors?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 Unlikely. The sensors are low voltage and separated from the breaker by a transformer, so they cannot directly trip the gfci. But the heater will not get power without the sensors connected, so by disconnecting them you disable the heater. Hook them back up and the heater gets power, and trips the breaker. 44 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: If it trips as soon as you turn it on it is usually a ground fault. This can happen on a brand new heater if you twist the terminal post while tightening the nut on the wire/strip. It's very easy to do. If it runs for a while before tripping it is usually NOT the heater, but the ozonator, pump, or breaker. If it then stops tripping if you disconnect or disable the heater (by unplugging sensors, for example), it is almost certainly a breaker or loose connection at the breaker. 46 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: 5 hours ago, Olliesykes said: then the sensors plug into the circuit board, it trips. Even if the heater is disconnected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Thanks for spending so much time helping me. i have attached some pics so the sensors I talk about don’t seem to supply any power anywhere. They just connect to the metal probes that take the temperature of the water. the hot tub doesn’t turn on unless I have that main power supply to the heater connected. so just that plugged in allows the control panel to turn on. But there is an error as no sensor. Then, It’s only when the sensors are plugged in to the board that the whole hot tub trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Ok in first photo you have the male end of the heater disconnected and in your hand. At the female end there are 2 tabs. Do you get 240VAC across those 2 tabs with the sensors attached and the spa calling for heat. (leave the sensors attached the likely hood of it being a sensor issue is nil) I frequently see the Balboa boards with the plug in heater quick disconnect that burnt out the relays. If you look inside the male end of the quick connect plug (the part you are holding pic 1) you will see that it has 2 little clips for lack of a better word the are suppose to sandwich on either side of the tab in the female end on the board. I think this connection is the cause of burnt relays on theses boards. To me they just don't seem to grip tight enough and a little play IMO can cause arching and burnt relays. I often delete the male end altogether and use spade connectors onto the tabs in the female end. Remove the board from the housing and look on the back for burnt or darkened areas around the relays. Post photos of the backside of the board. Take the board to a professional electronics repair shop and replace ALL the relays. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 2:25 PM, RDspaguy said: On 10/11/2020 at 1:39 PM, RDspaguy said: On 10/11/2020 at 9:06 AM, Olliesykes said: then the sensors plug into the circuit board, it trips. Even if the heater is disconnected? I will try one last time. If you can't answer questions I can't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 5 hours ago, RDspaguy said: I will try one last time. If you can't answer questions I can't help you. Nothing turns on at all without the heater connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 Sorry that was incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 When only Sensors plugged in - all is fine. Very strange, now all plugged in and not tripping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 On 10/13/2020 at 10:15 AM, RDspaguy said: I will try one last time. If you can't answer questions I can't help you. So I plugged it all in and it ran fine for about 15 mins and then just cut out. Now it is back to what it was doing before. Completely trips whenever main heater power is plugged in. When only Sensor are plugged in and no heater main power plugged in it gives these messages........(see pics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 http://balboadirect.com/spa-panel-messages.aspx I can't find the srvc code individually, nor have I ever seen it, so it may be a single error, service sensor B. Is sensor B plugged in? Sensor B should be at the outflow from the heater, could they be connected backwards? Set an ohm meter to 20k ohms and test each sensor while disconnected from board. Post results. This error will not trip the breaker. Be sure the heater terminals and wire connectors are not touching the housing or mounting nut. Verify it is not wet. Post a pic of the schematic on the inside of the box cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesykes Posted October 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2020 Hey so I have noticed that the heater element connection is letting water through. It’s gentley coming up through the inside of the big nut. replaced the element with another and same challenge. See picture below. Can’t stem it completely despite trying different tightness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted October 24, 2020 Report Share Posted October 24, 2020 Take it back out and have it in your hand and see if it threads all the way down. Also there are 2 o-rings that should sit on the underside and compress up to the inside of the heater tube. Make sure they are in place. It looks like there is something black under the nut on the right hand to see in the pic or is it just the light/shadow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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