Circulation Pump Tripping Breaker

[Brian1223]

I have a Jacuzzi J-370 and the circulation pump started making a noise and then died.  I ordered a new pump and replaced the dead one.  Everything was working again for a couple days then the circuit breaker tripped.  I disconnected the heater to see if that was the cause and the breaker still tripped.  I then tried disconnecting the new circulation pump and that resolved the issue so I got a warranty replacement for the new pump.  The 2nd replacement pump is still having the same issue.  I connected it, everything works, the tub will heat up, I can turn all the jets on, etc.  Then the next day the breaker will trip.  Sometimes it makes it through at least one of the filtration cycles, other times it will trip as soon as the filtration cycle tries to start…..other times it just seems to trip randomly.  When the circulation pump is unplugged, the breaker never trips.  Any ideas?

[RDspaguy]

Is the circulation pump the same voltage as the original?

The heater can't run if the circ pump is not running. Breakers get worn and heat up when there is high amp draw, like when the heater is on. Once hot, they will continue to trip until they cool, even if the heater is disconnected. So, if you disconnected the heater when it tripped without letting the breaker cool it could trip again immediately. If it then had time to cool while you disconnected the circ pump (and maybe reconnected the heater?) it would work again. So it could be a bad breaker.

But my money is on the wrong circ pump. Your spa should have a 240v pump, and a 120v pump will run for a little while before it burns out and creates a short, thus tripping the breaker.

[Brian1223]

11 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Is the circulation pump the same voltage as the original?

The heater can't run if the circ pump is not running. Breakers get worn and heat up when there is high amp draw, like when the heater is on. Once hot, they will continue to trip until they cool, even if the heater is disconnected. So, if you disconnected the heater when it tripped without letting the breaker cool it could trip again immediately. If it then had time to cool while you disconnected the circ pump (and maybe reconnected the heater?) it would work again. So it could be a bad breaker.

But my money is on the wrong circ pump. Your spa should have a 240v pump, and a 120v pump will run for a little while before it burns out and creates a short, thus tripping the breaker.

Yes, the original pump was a Laing SM-909-NHW-18 3/4" and the replacement was the new E10 series which was supposed to be the direct replacement, both were marked 230V.

I've tried waiting a day before trying to reconnect the circulation pump (with the heater disconnected) and it will still eventually trip.....do you still think it would be worth replacing the breaker?  ....maybe the breaker can't handle the draw from the pump?

 

[RDspaguy]

The pump draws almost nothing. The heater is the big draw in the tub. Usually when it runs for days then trips it is the breaker.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Does the spa have Ozone?...if so disconnect it and try again.... If no ozone disconnect everything BUT the circ pump and see if it runs...If it still trips after that verify your pump wiring where it attaches to the circuit board is correct. If wiring is good and everything else is disconnected look to your GFCI breaker.

Let us know results

[Brian1223]

10 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Does the spa have Ozone?...if so disconnect it and try again.... If no ozone disconnect everything BUT the circ pump and see if it runs...If it still trips after that verify your pump wiring where it attaches to the circuit board is correct. If wiring is good and everything else is disconnected look to your GFCI breaker.

Let us know results

Yes, it does have Ozone. I tried unplugging that and within 8 hours it tripped the breaker again. It appears as long as the circulation pump is plugged in, the breaker will trip within a day....as soon as that is taken out of the equation, nothing else will trip it. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

post some pics of the circuit board so we can see the wiring and the inside cover as well

 

[RDspaguy]

Perhaps you tried already, but disconnect the heater before it has tripped and see if it still trips. The heater cannot run without the circulation pump. If it does not trip I would suspect the breaker. If it does, then it is likely the circulation pump. Though that is very rare for a circulation pump to cause the breaker to trip unless it is somehow getting wet.

[CanadianSpaTech]

5 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Though that is very rare for a circulation pump to cause the breaker to trip unless it is somehow getting wet

and it's the second one with same issue

Again disconnect everything heater included except the circ and see if it still trips. Being it is the second circ I would then look to verify the circ wiring at the board and then to the breaker

[Brian1223]

13 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

post some pics of the circuit board so we can see the wiring and the inside cover as well

 

Here are some pictures of the circuit board and wiring diagram. 

[Brian1223]

6 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Perhaps you tried already, but disconnect the heater before it has tripped and see if it still trips. The heater cannot run without the circulation pump. If it does not trip I would suspect the breaker. If it does, then it is likely the circulation pump. Though that is very rare for a circulation pump to cause the breaker to trip unless it is somehow getting wet.

Yes, I tried that.  I let the tub sit for a day or so and then connected everything but the heater and it still tripped the breaker.  I also checked the general area around all the components and there does not appear to be any moisture in there.  

[RDspaguy]

Post some pics of the equipment bay. Did you wire the pump at the board, the pump, or splice the wires?

[Brian1223]

1 hour ago, RDspaguy said:

Post some pics of the equipment bay. Did you wire the pump at the board, the pump, or splice the wires?

I wired it at the board.  I removed the old pump and wiring completely and ran the new wiring to the same locations the old wiring was connected to and then did the same thing again with the 2nd replacement pump.

[RDspaguy]

Well there goes THAT idea. I am stumped. I do not think it could be the circulation pump, but there seems to be nothing else left. I would try a new breaker before a third new pump.

[CanadianSpaTech]

 

7 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Did you wire the pump at the board, the pump, or splice the wires?

The Laing E 10 comes wires attached

 

 @RDspaguy  Can we plug one of the main single speed pumps into where the circ plugs in and eliminate the circ one way or the other.

I can see the black going into TB2 (2) and I think that the white is going to the right spot but it is kind of a jumble of wires. Can you please verify it is going to the right spot as per the diagram

How old is the original breaker...guess you could buy one, install it and return it if not needed...but I would check return policy to be sure

[RDspaguy]

I am not sure if the circ pump circuit could handle the amp draw of a jet pump. I have never tried it, but wouldn't want to risk that ridiculously expensive board to try it out.

It also does not have jumpers or dipswitches to set it for a non-circ operation. That requires replacement of the "e-prom" main logic chip on the board. That's the one with the white sticker "850LCD". If I had the pics of the equipment that I have requested I could see if it could be converted to a non circ setup with a cheap e-prom.

@CanadianSpaTech, I am at a loss. Logic says it can't be the circ pump for several reasons including the fact that this is the second new one. Amp draw on the circ is too low to overheat even a faulty breaker by itself. But the OP insists that it trips even with everything else disconnected, but not with circ pump disconnected and main pumps still connected. Main pumps being far more likely to overheat the breaker than the circ. There is no visible damage to the board, the flow switch, light, and topside are on the load side of the transformer so could not trip the breaker even if you poured water on them. That only leaves the stereo, which again would trip it regardless of circ pump. If we are getting the right info, then it is a mystery.

Which leads me to conclude that the OP has not tested it as thoroughly as he claims. In which case I have no chance of finding the solution from here.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Just to confirm..you have tried to disconnect EVERYTHING from the pack and had just the circ connected and it still tripped... Please confirm this has been done and tried 

[Brian1223]

17 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

 

The Laing E 10 comes wires attached

 

 @RDspaguy  Can we plug one of the main single speed pumps into where the circ plugs in and eliminate the circ one way or the other.

I can see the black going into TB2 (2) and I think that the white is going to the right spot but it is kind of a jumble of wires. Can you please verify it is going to the right spot as per the diagram

How old is the original breaker...guess you could buy one, install it and return it if not needed...but I would check return policy to be sure

The white wire is going to the right spot per the diagram, it is actually the only area on the board that has that type of connector from what I can tell. 
 

The hot tub came with the house when I bought it 8 years ago. However, all the dates on the tub indicate it was manufactured in 2002 so I imagine the breaker was installed around that time. 

[Brian1223]

14 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

I am not sure if the circ pump circuit could handle the amp draw of a jet pump. I have never tried it, but wouldn't want to risk that ridiculously expensive board to try it out.

It also does not have jumpers or dipswitches to set it for a non-circ operation. That requires replacement of the "e-prom" main logic chip on the board. That's the one with the white sticker "850LCD". If I had the pics of the equipment that I have requested I could see if it could be converted to a non circ setup with a cheap e-prom.

@CanadianSpaTech, I am at a loss. Logic says it can't be the circ pump for several reasons including the fact that this is the second new one. Amp draw on the circ is too low to overheat even a faulty breaker by itself. But the OP insists that it trips even with everything else disconnected, but not with circ pump disconnected and main pumps still connected. Main pumps being far more likely to overheat the breaker than the circ. There is no visible damage to the board, the flow switch, light, and topside are on the load side of the transformer so could not trip the breaker even if you poured water on them. That only leaves the stereo, which again would trip it regardless of circ pump. If we are getting the right info, then it is a mystery.

Which leads me to conclude that the OP has not tested it as thoroughly as he claims. In which case I have no chance of finding the solution from here.

Here are some more equipment pictures as requested. It does not have a stereo (that was an option but it doesn’t have it). 

[Brian1223]

3 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Just to confirm..you have tried to disconnect EVERYTHING from the pack and had just the circ connected and it still tripped... Please confirm this has been done and tried 

I disconnected the heater, the ozone, Pump 1, and Pump 2 all at the same time and it still tripped within a few hours (I don’t even think it is even in a cycle where the pump is even running when it trips). Is there something else I should also be disconnecting?

[CanadianSpaTech]

Down to the breaker or circuit board from the sounds of it. I am out of options to suggest @RDspaguy anything to add?

[Brian1223]

Just an update, I replaced the breaker and it has stayed on for 24 hours so far so things are looking hopeful. Thanks for the advice. 

[Jbrods]

Just wondering if replacing the breaker solved your issue. I am having the exact same issue on a j375 tub from 2006. @Brian1223

[RDspaguy]

Start your own thread. Include a description of your problem and pics of your circuit board, wiring diagram, and equipment area.

[Jbrods]

My problem is exactly what was happening in this thread... I'm curious if replacing the breaker solved the issue. I'd rather do that then buy a new pump if the breaker is the problem.