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How often to shock?


Susanj

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I "shock", in a sense, after each use, once a week minimum. 

Shocking is the act of oxidizing chloramines or bromides and breaking down the remains of organic contaminants left over from sanitizing. Your ozone is the most powerful oxidizer used in water treatment (municipal water supplies as well as pool and spa). So powerful it will even oxidize free chlorine (which is why it is used in municipal water treatment) and, to a lesser extent, bromine. It is continuously shocking your water, in addition to a small degree of sanitizing. Only a small degree because it only treats the water in the pipe, not the entire spa so cannot get to all contaminants.

For a bromine spa, you should shock any time your bromine reading is low to reactivate your bromine bank or reserve. Which will be after it is used. Remember that bromine becomes bromide when it reacts with organic contaminants, and bromide becomes bromine when it is oxidized.

Shocking bromine is guesswork, as you cannot test free and total bromine as you can chlorine. So have to determine appropriate amounts based on your own use and experience. 

Shocking chlorine is the difference between your free chlorine and total chlorine (which is your combined chlorine, or chloramines) times ten gives you the amount you must raise your free chlorine to oxidize the chloramines. So 3.0 free and 4.0 total you must raise free chlorine by 10, so up to 13 in this example, to burn off the 1.0 of chloramines. This results in a high chlorine level that must be reduced prior to use. This is where ozone shines, as it can oxidize free chlorine as no other shock can.

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Thanks, RDspaguy.

I was never very good at chemistry. :)  

So you shock to turn the bromide back into the sanitizing form of bromine? 

 

By your definition I am shocking frequently-"you should shock any time your bromine reading is low to reactivate your bromine bank or reserve. Which will be after it is used. " That is what I do.  But I thought weekly (approximately ) I needed to use more to get the reading up higher , maybe 5-10 ppm, no?

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For a vacation rental like yours, I would. They tend to see heavier use by more careless users than a private spa, so will deplete your sanitizer more rapidly. And your concern as an owner is waterborne illness liability, not guest comfort level. Your guests will complain about chemical odor or eye irritation, but they will sue over legionnaires disease.

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I use ozone and mineral purifier in my private spa, and shock to approx 1ppm chlorine after each use, usually just my 8 year old son in there, sometimes myself and my wife too. 

It is important to note that public pool and spa regulations do not recognize ozone or mineral purifiers as sanitizers. In a commercial unit you are required to maintain 3-5ppm bromine in your spa AT ALL TIMES regardless of bather load. 1 person using it for 1 hour can deplete 2-3ppm. If you do not treat your spa between rentals it is classified as a public spa. I would make sure it had close to 10ppm (the upper limit) at the beginning of each rental, use a floater, and POST SIGNS requiring your renters to add your predetermined amount of shock after each use. Then you at least have evidence of your attempt to see the spa properly maintained at all times if you are not doing so yourself. And keep records of your treatments, amounts used, readings, dates, etc... These will be crucial in the event of an incident.

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"Ozone is continuously shocking your water, in addition to a small degree of sanitizing. Only a small degree because it only treats the water in the pipe, not the entire spa so cannot get to all contaminants."
 
But doesn't shocking serve to boost the sanitizer?
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It does, but it does so at a slow rate. Enough to keep up with a private spa being lightly used. But when 4 or 5 (drunk) renters climb in without showering with clothing containing detergent residue and fabric softener after a long day of (whatever activity) and party for the evening and spill a beer and dunk makeup covered faces and conditioned hair in the water and who know what else, you are going to need alot more than a garden hose of oxidized water flowing back into your contaminated tub that is now down to 0ppm sanitizer and growing cultures of e-coli, pseudomonas, streptococcus, legionella, giardia, and salmonella, just to name a few. That is why public spa regulations do not recognize ozone, you must have a sanitizer residual to kill all these things and prevent their growth and spread to the users via inhaled and oral contamination. Many of these bacteria and protozoa can hospitalize or even kill those infected, and you, as the owner, will be sued for damages by individuals as well as their insurance providers if it is traced back to your spa.

So be able to prove that it was sanitized when they arrived and that you made every effort by any means available to ensure that it remained sanitary for the duration of their stay or risk losing your rental, your own home, your cars, and anything else you own to a lawsuit. And have good insurance.

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Sorry to keep going on about this. 
 

We DO treat it between rentals. But that seems an odd way to classify something as public. Arent the public ones checked multiple times a day? 

 
A vacation rental hot tub is classified as private, though I think t should be treated as in-between private and public. 
 
I AM going to have pre-measured containers of shock for them to add after use. It's still hit or miss because we won't know how many got in or what the level was when they got out, and the level determines how much to add.
 
As for having it near 10 at the start of each rental, I worry....what if it's a group that doesn't use it-how high will the level go over days with the floater in there? Or if just one (relatively clean) person uses it and maybe the level goes down only 1 ppm (it does for me when in 
alone for 15-20 minutes) , and then they add the sanitizer? It could easily get over 10. 

 

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It is odd. I thought so too when I maintained vacation rentals in Lake Tahoe. I thought they would be treated as a hotel and someone would be testing them frequently, and was shocked to learn that we only came by before and after a rental. Apparently, as it was explained to me by my employer, the guests check in as a group, not individuals like a hotel (public) so for the duration of their stay it is their "private" spa. But the moment another group checks in using untreated water from the previous group it is a public spa. Like I said before, a very small loophole.

And yes, a public spa must be tested and maintained according to local health department regulations and must comply with all laws (VGB act) that apply to public pools and spas (which most portable spas do not). In St. Louis (where I ran the service department of one of three companies that handled commercial pool maintenance) it was 3 times per day minimum, as well as a slew of other regulations such as turnover rates, handicap accessibility, filter sizing, lifesaving equipment, signage, emergency shutoff buttons, etc...

As long as it is "private" there are no regulations on chemical levels, but a public pool or spa will be warned for high sanitizer levels and closed for low sanitizer levels. High sanitizer being much less of a health hazard than low. As a maintenance company 5 closures out of all pools you maintain will lose you your license to maintain public pools. And the health department hires an army of college kids to do random unscheduled testing. Part of my job was to go meet these inspectors if they found a problem, which usually turned out to be a mistake on the part of the poorly trained "intern".

You will not face any of this UNLESS someone gets sick in your spa. Then, as I understand it, you will be investigated by the health department, and you had better hope you have good records to prove you have properly maintained it or you will be found liable for damages and risk having your spa registered as public (with all the regulations and licensing that requires).

In Tahoe, we started every new rental at 10ppm chlorine with a floater and every rental had signs with instructions for maintenance procedures and chemicals available for those procedures. If they were not followed it was not our responsibility as it was considered private for the duration of the rental. It was not uncommon to drain and refill every few rentals, and the rental schedule provided at least 1 full day by contract between rentals for maintenance. Failure to maintain the on-site logbook was grounds for immediate termination, and the boss checked those herself. She would lose her license if there were inadequate records of scheduled maintenance if a problem occurred.

Again, I urge you to research your specific situation through vacation rental forums, facebook groups, property management companies, or whatever you can find that deals specifically with vacation rental pools and spas. And ask your local health department. My perspective is that of a pool professional hired mostly by property management firms with contractual obligations and licensing concerns, and I have no idea what private owners who handle their own maintenance are doing. But if it were me, I would choose safety over all else. Or just not have a spa. Think of all the headaches THAT would eliminate!

Out of curiosity, how much time have you invested into researching this? How much money have you spent? How much more will you spend in maintaining it? And how important is a spa to your renters?

Have you considered a professional maintenance company or property management firm?

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We would NEVER leave the water untreated between guests! 
 

I have spent SO much money and time on this that my son - law- thinks it’s not worth it.  😊
 

There is a shortage of people/ companies maintaining them in our small tourist town. We have hired companies/ people and have been unhappy with them. I started checking with a test strip before I used it when I’d go every 2-3 weeks & the results were usually not adequate. I think they toss in chemicals and don’t wait the proper amount of time for rechecking, for one thing. No one is as invested as the owner. So I decided to educate myself on doing it , though we live 1 1/2 hours away and can’t do It routinely. We ended up sending our cleaner to take the class and get certified.

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In Tahoe we had the advantage of multiple rentals in a small area, and would go to the same house 2 or 3 times in the same day. I am not really sure what our service cost the owners, but it was not cheap.

I can appreciate you being proactive about your chemistry, it's alot to take on for your situation. And sending your cleaning person to CPO class is definitely a step in the right direction. Well done! Gold star for you, Susan! By the time you are done I have no doubt yours will be the best maintained spa in town. 

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