Tiger River Bangal Model MM No Heater - Blown Relay

[ZugZug]

Hello everyone,

I have a Tiger River Bangal Model MM from around 2001 (its the 230V converted with a 30AMP and 20AMP subpanel) IQ2020 Circuit Board.  Even though it's around 20 years old...only used for about 3 years between old owner and myself.  A while back it was working fine then one day I went out and the bromine floater wedged against the filter which caused all the water to suck out of the filter area and presumably ran the pipe dry.  Not sure how long it was like that...found when I was checking the chemicals.  When I tried to start back up everything but the heater worked (jets, circ pump, lights on board, etc).  I went through all troubleshooting figuring it was the no fault heater...but actually discovered I had a blown relay on my heater board / daughter panel.  My meter shows I'm getting 120V from the white heater wire post but nothing from the black heater wire post (a different post I read said I should be getting 230V from the two so that is why I checked the circuit board).  When I looked at the relay from the back I can see it was blown.  I'm hoping my heater is still ok...getting about 10ohms when I check resistance.  The main circuit board has a LIM OK and HTR ON light lit up too.

My question is could the water draining dry through the filter actually cause the relay to blow like that?  I would think the heater would have blown before a relay did.  Usually if a relay blows it's something else upstream that caused it...but it was working fine until the water drained from the system.  I think I've found a place that sells the daughter board for about $150 but not sure how often people have found a blown relay and replacing the board will fix the main problem (and not instantly blow the relay again when I hook it up).  Any thoughts or advice on just replacing the board?  I also can't find the relay anywhere (if I wanted to try to just replace that).  The relay is G8P-1C4P-V 18VDC.  I can find G8P-1C4P (no V) but it's a different circuit.  Was thinking since the board is $150 I could try to replace the relay itself for $10-$15 but doesn't look like that is an option.

 

[ZugZug]

After doing some more searching I'm finding that blown relays are a common problem with the heater circuit board.  There is an upgraded circuit board that goes from a 3 relay setup to a 2 stronger 2 relay setup.  I ordered the new board (IQ 2020 HEATER RELAY BOARD, 2001-2009.5 Item #: 77119) after watching the install video (shows a 120V replacement but mine will just be the same steps using no jumpers and putting wires in same places they were previously).  I also called and talked to BackYardPlus and they knew exactly what I was dealing with because this is a common issue with this board).  Will need to wait until I setup this new board to see if my heater is still ok with what happened to it earlier with running without water.

 

[RDspaguy]

Relays are a common problem on all circuit boards, especially the heater relays. That is why watkins put them on their own little board. 10 ohms is good for that heater. I think you will be fine.

[ZugZug]

Got the new board in the mail and installed today.  At first I thought the heater wasn't working because I expected the heating element to get hot quick but called the place I bought the part from to ask for any advice on how to troubleshoot if the heater was also bad and he had me check the AMPs it was pulling from the board.  Said it should be around 25AMP.  Of course the cheap Harbor Freight amp meter I bought for like $10 was very inaccurate and showing 15 to 30AMPs depending on where I moved the clamp so I went and got a better meter.  By the time I came back it had heated +5 degrees and continues to go up.  Finally!  Figured I would put a final post letting people know it seems to be fixed in case someone else looks for this later and needs an answer.  If I had to narrow the troubleshooting on this (Tiger River Bengal Model MM 230V) it would be this:

1. Make sure power is good to the relay board (30AMP and 20AMP).  My heater is running on the 30AMP but apparently there are some configurations out there that run off the 20AMP for heater.  There is also a TON of different wiring configurations (the manual shows 5 but there are even more).  Hopefully you know what yours is or can figure it out based on the different diagrams.  so my steps below describe for the 50AMP hot tub 30AMP heater 20AMP jets).
2. Check that the white and black posts on the relay board are sending approx 230V to the heater.  You can stick one probe on the white post and one probe on the black to get the reading.  If you only have 115V one of your relays is probably bad.  You can find out by checking each post individually with the meter to a ground...that should tell you which is bad.  If you have no power then the first relay in the series could be bad (or all 3 if the have a 3 relay board like I did).  If the relay is bad buy a replacement board (got mine for about $154) and replace.  The new boards only have 2 relays (see picture attached for the new baord...and my old board is in the post above).
3. If you have 230V going to your heater you will want to check how much AMPs are being pulled from the relay board to the heater.  With a clamp meter put the clamp around the black wire and see if you are pulling approx 25AMPs.  If so...then your heater is probably working correctly.  If it's not pulling that amount you can do an Ohm check on the heater by checking unplugging the black and white leads (turn the power off first) to looking at the resistance.  Should be about 10 Ohm.

Good luck if you are troubleshooting like I was.  Will try to help anyone that may be having a similar issue but this isn't something I normally do...I'm sure someone else on here would know better

[CanadianSpaTech]

Thanks for following up with your results. Frustrating sometimes when you give advice and posters disappear without posting their results and helping the next guy. Glad you were able to get it figured out. Enjoy! 

[Radaruk]

I’m recommissioning a Sovereign that we purchased about 10 years ago.  I’ve put a new pump and heater.  It wasn’t heating, so I’ve replaced the relays and now have 240v at the heater terminals.  I don’t have an ammeter, but my meter does measure resistance.  I’m getting 36ohms on both the old and new heaters... this seems extremely high, could that be ok?

How long should it take to see a noticeable rise in temperature?

[RDspaguy]

The heater is either a 4kw or a 5.5 kw. Those are rated at 240v. The math is: watts = volts x amps, volts = amps x ohms. So 4000w ÷ 240v = 16.6 amps, 240v ÷ 16.6a = 14.5 ohms for a 4kw heater. 5500w ÷ 240v = 22.9 amps, 240v ÷ 22.9a = 10.5ohms for a 5.5kw. With a variance of +/- 10%. I have no explanation why you have 2 heaters reading 36 ohms. Even 2 good heaters will have a small variance between them. I think your tester might be bad.

[CanadianSpaTech]

23 minutes ago, RDspaguy said:

The heater is either a 4kw or a 5.5 kw. Those are rated at 240v. The math is: watts = volts x amps, volts = amps x ohms. So 4000w ÷ 240v = 16.6 amps, 240v ÷ 16.6a = 14.5 ohms for a 4kw heater. 5500w ÷ 240v = 22.9 amps, 240v ÷ 22.9a = 10.5ohms for a 5.5kw. With a variance of +/- 10%. I have no explanation why you have 2 heaters reading 36 ohms. Even 2 good heaters will have a small variance between them. I think your tester might be bad.

Darn it all I was just about to post the exact same thing...math and all whatever else you said 😈

[Sellers Tommy]

Curious did you ever figure out why your hot tub drained. The same thing happened to mine. No water and relay board blew. Wonder if it automatically drains when that happens. We had a 15 inch snowstorm. After the snow melted i checked it. The power was off and it was empty. Found relay board blown and not sure what happend first, the board blowing or the draining. Thoughts. Its holding water fine now i am replacing the relay board tomorrow. Thanks.

[RDspaguy]

There is no automatic drain that I am aware of. @castletonia, is that something new?

[castletonia]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:31 PM, RDspaguy said:

There is no automatic drain that I am aware of. @castletonia, is that something new?

Nope.  Guessing that it froze, something cracked, likely heater end caps, and drained out.

[Johnrlangan]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:14 PM, ZugZug said:

Got the new board in the mail and installed today.  At first I thought the heater wasn't working because I expected the heating element to get hot quick but called the place I bought the part from to ask for any advice on how to troubleshoot if the heater was also bad and he had me check the AMPs it was pulling from the board.  Said it should be around 25AMP.  Of course the cheap Harbor Freight amp meter I bought for like $10 was very inaccurate and showing 15 to 30AMPs depending on where I moved the clamp so I went and got a better meter.  By the time I came back it had heated +5 degrees and continues to go up.  Finally!  Figured I would put a final post letting people know it seems to be fixed in case someone else looks for this later and needs an answer.  If I had to narrow the troubleshooting on this (Tiger River Bengal Model MM 230V) it would be this:

1. Make sure power is good to the relay board (30AMP and 20AMP).  My heater is running on the 30AMP but apparently there are some configurations out there that run off the 20AMP for heater.  There is also a TON of different wiring configurations (the manual shows 5 but there are even more).  Hopefully you know what yours is or can figure it out based on the different diagrams.  so my steps below describe for the 50AMP hot tub 30AMP heater 20AMP jets).
2. Check that the white and black posts on the relay board are sending approx 230V to the heater.  You can stick one probe on the white post and one probe on the black to get the reading.  If you only have 115V one of your relays is probably bad.  You can find out by checking each post individually with the meter to a ground...that should tell you which is bad.  If you have no power then the first relay in the series could be bad (or all 3 if the have a 3 relay board like I did).  If the relay is bad buy a replacement board (got mine for about $154) and replace.  The new boards only have 2 relays (see picture attached for the new baord...and my old board is in the post above).
3. If you have 230V going to your heater you will want to check how much AMPs are being pulled from the relay board to the heater.  With a clamp meter put the clamp around the black wire and see if you are pulling approx 25AMPs.  If so...then your heater is probably working correctly.  If it's not pulling that amount you can do an Ohm check on the heater by checking unplugging the black and white leads (turn the power off first) to looking at the resistance.  Should be about 10 Ohm.

Good luck if you are troubleshooting like I was.  Will try to help anyone that may be having a similar issue but this isn't something I normally do...I'm sure someone else on here would know better

I have the same exact iq2020 set up , I replaced my heater relay with the one like this , I am so frustrated, now the new board makes the breaker trip . I want to ask, is it normal to have melted black plastic under that yellow square to the left of the jumpers jp1-jp12  I’ll send a pic, also I have a Sumatran and the manual has one jumper configuration that is different then behind the iq2020 door , which one should I use . 

[RDspaguy]

I always use the pack diagram. 

That little board is the low voltage power supply, and yours looks pretty rough.

A faulty heater can damage the relay board and cause problems after the board is replaced, and gfci breakers can go bad. But most likely the breaker trip is a wiring issue. Check the wiring diagram that came with the new board, and make sure the power jumpers are as they should be.

Post pics of circuit board wiring and new wiring diagram.

[Johnrlangan]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:23 PM, RDspaguy said:

I always use the pack diagram. 

That little board is the low voltage power supply, and yours looks pretty rough.

A faulty heater can damage the relay board and cause problems after the board is replaced, and gfci breakers can go bad. But most likely the breaker trip is a wiring issue. Check the wiring diagram that came with the new board, and make sure the power jumpers are as they should be.

Post pics of circuit board wiring and new wiring diagram.

 

[Johnrlangan]

2 minutes ago, Johnrlangan said:

 

 Is there any way you can replace the low voltage power supply board with out replacing the whole mother board ?

[RDspaguy]

They don't sell them separately that I am aware of. 

Do you have another thread? I've seen this before, and am sure someone already said, if it's phased (color coded) correctly it is wired wrong. Green is ground, white is neutral. 

[pgregory42]

Hello, I am new to this conversation.

I have the Tiger River Bangal Model MM from around 2001 (its the 115V version )

I am having a similar issue to the OP. 

I have the RED HTR ON light on ( it goes OFF when I turn on the jets ( as it should with the 115V Model ))
I have the GREEAN LMT OK light on ( which should indicate normal operation conditions )

I have checked the Heater at ~ 10 OHMS ( which seems correct by this forum )
I have checked the Voltage to my Recirc Pump and Heaters

Pump : BLACK to WHITE: 120VAC and  BLACK to GREEN 120 VAC
Heater: unplugged to get to the terminals, WAS 120VAC between BLACK and YELLOW

I feel vibration from recirc pump

I feel vibration on the hose from recirc pump to heaters, but do not "feel vibration" on outlet of heaters. Not sure if the vibration would transfer through.

The tub is not heating up. 

I did press the reset button earlier ( have done this before to no result ) and the heater pipes do feel COLDER to me, maybe my imagination...... or maybe recirc is working and wasn't before?

This seems to indicate that my relays are working... and the heaters seem to be correct OHM

any other ideas?