mscdman Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 @dllenothis is great stuff!! Thanks!! How soon after you’ve added the bleach can you retest your see how accurate/on you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 oh, with jets on its virtually instantaneous. seconds. depends on the circulation and pump system in your spa-- I experimented and found that by the time I put the bleach jug down and took a water sample, the reading was accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 27 minutes ago, dlleno said: yea you just treat it like you would a chlorine spa . you add chlorine after each use, measure frequently to dial things in. a bromine spa is exactly the same as a chlorine spa except that it has sodium bromide salts in the water. I'm astonished at how difficult the industry has made bromine spas out to be! I just edited my previous post and added a tip there on the use of regular bleach. make ABSOLUTE SURE you get regular bleach and nothing fancy I’m looking at generic Walmart 7.5% concentration bleach. IF I’m reading the pool calculator and want to aim for 5ppm bromine (which I assume is ok?) for 215 gallon tub from 0ppm It looks like .75oz bleach would do the trick to get 2.25 free chlorine which according to the math is 5ppm bromine (?). I have plenty of bromide reserve. I think I setup for 30ppm at initial fill.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 Have you done an ahh-some purge? if so, or you plan to, then 30ppm of Bromine is quite sufficient; the interesting challenge with a bromine spa is that you can't just add hydrogen peroxide to lower the chlorine level (thats pretty cool in case you've been in that situation). so if you dose to 30ppm and you have to wait for it to fall down to 10 or so before you get it. at 20% decay rate that amounts to five days. and if you find that your bromine level falls quicker than that, you might still have some bad guys chewing up your bromine! folks with floaters usually cover up this problem by over-brominating. but the manual dosing that many of us espouse here will give you very good insights into your exposure to biofilms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, dlleno said: Have you done an ahh-some purge? if so, or you plan to, then 30ppm of Bromine is quite sufficient; the interesting challenge with a bromine spa is that you can't just add hydrogen peroxide to lower the chlorine level (thats pretty cool in case you've been in that situation). so if you dose to 30ppm and you have to wait for it to fall down to 10 or so before you get it. at 20% decay rate that amounts to five days. and if you find that your bromine level falls quicker than that, you might still have some bad guys chewing up your bromine! folks with floaters usually cover up this problem by over-brominating. but the manual dosing that many of us espouse here will give you very good insights into your exposure to biofilms Yes I did an ahhsum purge. It’s a brand new tub. Did it before the first fill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, dlleno said: Have you done an ahh-some purge? if so, or you plan to, then 30ppm of Bromine is quite sufficient; the interesting challenge with a bromine spa is that you can't just add hydrogen peroxide to lower the chlorine level (thats pretty cool in case you've been in that situation). so if you dose to 30ppm and you have to wait for it to fall down to 10 or so before you get it. at 20% decay rate that amounts to five days. and if you find that your bromine level falls quicker than that, you might still have some bad guys chewing up your bromine! folks with floaters usually cover up this problem by over-brominating. but the manual dosing that many of us espouse here will give you very good insights into your exposure to biofilms @dllenowhats a good range for Bromiine PPM? 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 2.2 times the recommended FC levels 🙂 the industry is finally waking up to the fact that biofilms can form in 3ppm FC, so there are folks over at TFP recommending 4-5 free CHLORINE, which would be 11 ppm total bromine. I routinely run mine at 9-10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, dlleno said: 2.2 times the recommended FC levels 🙂 the industry is finally waking up to the fact that biofilms can form in 3ppm FC, so there are folks over at TFP recommending 4-5 free CHLORINE, which would be 11 ppm total bromine. I routinely run mine at 9-10 Maybe I’ll shoot for 8PPm bromine or whatver FC is /2.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, dlleno said: Have you done an ahh-some purge? if so, or you plan to, then 30ppm of Bromine is quite sufficient; the interesting challenge with a bromine spa is that you can't just add hydrogen peroxide to lower the chlorine level (thats pretty cool in case you've been in that situation). so if you dose to 30ppm and you have to wait for it to fall down to 10 or so before you get it. at 20% decay rate that amounts to five days. and if you find that your bromine level falls quicker than that, you might still have some bad guys chewing up your bromine! folks with floaters usually cover up this problem by over-brominating. but the manual dosing that many of us espouse here will give you very good insights into your exposure to biofilms what are you guys using to measure out very specific Oz measurements for your bleach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 Plastic kitchen 1/2 or 1/4 measuring cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 @dlleno using this approach of seeding w bromide and then bleach to reactivate after every use should this theoretically keep a consistent bromine level both before and after soak? what does it mean if when using this approach before your soak it shows very little bromine? I’ve got too little bleach added? Not enough bromide salts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 What is your test method? If dpd drop wise (e.g.taylor) -- in this case it probably means low sanitizer level cause the bromine test will respond to the presence of chlorine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Can u smell the difference between br and cl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, dlleno said: What is your test method? If dpd drop wise (e.g.taylor) -- in this case it probably means low sanitizer level cause the bromine test will respond to the presence of chlorine And if it’s from a strip result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, dlleno said: Can u smell the difference between br and cl? No I don’t think I can. Why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Im afraid i can't answer on the strips....i don't trust em sorry i haven't used them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I can smell the difference..im trying to think of ways you could discern what's really going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I’m trying to see how the following regarding an ozoneator (which I have) depletes the bromide reserve. I’m no scientist but wondering if this could be my issue and if so how the O3 is doing that.. ” A 2-step system with an efficient ozonator might be able to achieve the constant bromine level without the use of, or by using less oxidizer (MPS or chlorine) since the ozone is constantly oxidizing the sodium bromide while it is on. However, the ozone may also deplete the bromide reserve more quickly, leading to the use of more sodium bromide, or a shorter time between necessary drain and refills. Also, ozone can cause bromates to form in your water.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Ozone is such a strong oxidizer that it will oxidize chlorine and, to a lesser extent, bromine. Since your bromine is created from your bromide reserve, burning it off will result in a lowering bromide reserve as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 33 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: Ozone is such a strong oxidizer that it will oxidize chlorine and, to a lesser extent, bromine. Since your bromine is created from your bromide reserve, burning it off will result in a lowering bromide reserve as well. Interesting. So with an ozone system I’ll need to add more sodium bromide to keep up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 i have found no practical impact of ozone on the bromide bank when treating per label dirs. I treat once at first fill and voila "set and forget " -- just sayin...ozone eating bromide salts is a red herring non problem nothingburger! In fact, ozone in a bromine spa is a beautiful thing. Highly recommended! With a clean spa (no biofilms) and a modern corona discharge ozone genny, ive been able to maintain a fraction of a ppm bromine for days (no load of course) cause the ozone is able to oxidize bromide into the good stuff: sanitizing hybobromous acid 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Since your bromide bank is generally more than you strictly need, it is unlikely to be an issue given the frequency of water changes you will be doing anyway. I don't use bromine myself, so have no personal knowledge of how fast it will deplete your bromine, or how fast it will generate bromine from the bromide bank. Also, ozonators, ozone injection systems, and the controls that run them are not all the same, so pinning down a "normal" is next to impossible. A CD ozonator on a high flow mazzei and a 24/7 operation is going to have a vastly different effect than a UV ozonator on a low flow injector that only runs during filter cycles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 10:01 PM, dlleno said: i have found no practical impact of ozone on the bromide bank when treating per label dirs. I treat once at first fill and voila "set and forget " -- just sayin...ozone eating bromide salts is a red herring non problem nothingburger! In fact, ozone in a bromine spa is a beautiful thing. Highly recommended! With a clean spa (no biofilms) and a modern corona discharge ozone genny, ive been able to maintain a fraction of a ppm bromine for days (no load of course) cause the ozone is able to oxidize bromide into the good stuff: sanitizing hybobromous acid @dllenoWon’t the ozone constantly raise higher and higher the bromine levels though? This seems to be a concern... if you start with a reserve of say 30ppm and don’t use the tub say for a week, isn’t that ozontor raising and raising the bromine levels from bromide? when using bleach to reactivate the bromine you have some “control”. But it seems like the ozone is a free for all of never ending bromine building until you’ve exacerbated the bromide reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscdman Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 Also - @dllenodoes adding the manual bleach after each use to reactivate bromine also raise the PH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlleno Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, mscdman said: @dllenoWon’t the ozone constantly raise higher and higher the bromine levels though? This seems to be a concern... if you start with a reserve of say 30ppm and don’t use the tub say for a week, isn’t that ozontor raising and raising the bromine levels from bromide? The level of hybobromous acid generated by ozone from bromide is so low that most dont even know that it happens. Even under no load, ozone will just barely "keep up" with natural sanitizer decay in a clean spa. Mine won't go above 1ppm. If left alone, 30ppm will naturally decay asymptotically over a few days (meaning it gets close but won't get to zero). Its a great vacation plan! 7 minutes ago, mscdman said: Also - @dllenodoes adding the manual bleach after each use to reactivate bromine also raise the PH? Yes sodium hypo is net pH positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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