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Refinish Western Red Cedar Hot Tub (Inside)


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Good morning, I have a Western Red Cedar hot tub.  I struggled to keep the water clear.  Perhaps I didn't have the ionizer turned up enough.  I began using more chlorine which kept the water clear.  As a result, the wood began to fail with fur like wood fibers shedding on the inside.  I think I now know how to better maintain the water without a ton of chorine thanks to this forum.  I have drained the tub and now waiting for it to dry completely.  I want to sand the inside to bring it back to original look and feel.  My thought is to use a palm sander with 400 grit to remove the layer of "fur".  Has anyone had any experience to share here?  Much thanks. -Chuck

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  • 1 year later...

I too damaged the interior of my cedar tub and have been looking for information on how to repair it. Seems my damage resulted from over use of bromine when my UV system was down. Anyway I found this today and while I have not tried it yet I am going to give it a shot this weekend. 

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Should the interior surface develop this cellulite or pulpy surface, because you used tri-chlor compounds, you can remove this. Drain the tub and while the surfaces are still wet or damp, gently remove the pulpy material using a plastic kitchen scouring pad. Do this to all surfaces including the bottom of seats. Suck up all the loose scraped-off material, with a wet/dry shop vacuum. After you have refilled the tub, you will need to frequently check the drain strainers, since the residual pulp will collect at these locations, eventually plugging the drain holes. Also, frequently check the filter and clean and replace. After about a week the water should be clear of further fibres. If you then switch to a bromine approach or better yet a metal ion approach you can stop further fibre breakdown. You should quickly notice the beneficial effects in that the suction screen stops getting plugged with pulp.

https://www.cedartubs.com/blogger/tickets/af1c1eb4a13736d8431a107b557fed1bCedar-Tub-General-Care-Manual-Rev-13.pdf

I see your post is well over a year old so if you have any pointers since I would appreciate it.

Thanks

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  • 1 year later...

Hi, we have the same problem!! White fur like/tissue paper like substance. Doing some research it could possibly be white water mold. However, I have found no one who has been able to get rid of this problem. Did the sanding work? Or did it come back again? We have kept our chemicals close to perfect and still had the same problem. Even changed to using Bromine. Can anyone help please?? 

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E2ECBB55-12E7-4C31-BA80-04BB5DDFB473.jpeg

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  • 11 months later...

I have the exact same problem in my hot tub. It looks exactly the same as the picture above. I've moved from chlorine to bromine and still have the same problem. I've been trying the elbow grease method for ages, I just can't get it off and keep hoovering up huge clogs of it floating around. 

I've been running spa flush every time I change the water, I also have a pool type system with a sand filter, so frequent backwash and rinse etc. I use an non-chlorine shock once weekly. 

Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. 

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  • 1 month later...

2021.9.22Hot tub.pdfHello,

I have submitted a few posts regarding my cedar hot tub sanitation. The topic is how to properly sanitize a cedar hot tub? I have a newer tub 2 years old and I struggle to maintain low residual Free Chlorine. I use the Dichlor/Bleach method described on this forum. The issue with wood is that is organic and any free chlorine will attack the fibers. I am currently moving to a Del AOP S uv/ozone system which outputs hydroxyls which have a very short lifespan (a few seconds). If you maintain high levels of Chlorine (according to Dr Spa on this forum Bromine is not recommended for wood tubs) above 2 ppm you can shorten the lifespan of the tub. Sanding down the tub could create leaking issues so be careful. 

Dr. Spa quote from earlier post. This is someone who has extensive experience in cedar tubs.

Quote

 

"

Chlorine will sanitize the water, and the excess will evaporate.

Bromine will sanitize the water, and the excess will eat away the wood.

MPS, same story as bromine, only faster (plus, it turns the bromide back into bromine...see above).

Drop an OZ tab in the tub, and it will start to burn a hole through the bottom (been there done that personally).

Keep my number handy and check back in 5 years  :rolleyes:"

 

I count 5 posts above where the wood has been over sanitized. So how do we move ahead? Every option has its drawbacks. How do we design a more universal method so we can enjoy our cedar tubs without fretting over their eventual demise. Here is what I have found that may be a step in the right direction. The addition of an ozone unit (DEL ozone spa) followed by a UV chamber (DEL UV-C 50) or a DEL AOP S (which combines the uv and ozone into a single unit). UV does not harm wood but with a sizable chamber and the full flow capacity of the UV-C 50 it can keep your water very safe, it is designed for a pool. Please read up on AOP systems for pools and spas. When one is plumbed prior to the UV chamber a reaction takes place and converts the ozone to Hydroxyls, many times more powerful than ozone. The Hydroxyls have a very short life so they cannot stick around to damage your tub and equipment. 

Please take look at the schematic of my cedar tub system. I know it is a bit overkill. I love the 3 hp variable speed pump and the gas heater. I have a bypass valve immediately after the pump. During filter mode all the water passes through this 2" line at 25-30 gpm, the valve is opened partially during spa use to maintain flow in filter/heater bypass but also allow 90 gpm to flow up main return line to the jets. You'll see the bypass line tees back into the main return line. My next experiment is to add the AOP system described above to this filter line, which will enable complete flow of water to be sanitized. Notice the quote below off the CMP website. This looks very promising for wood tub enthusiasts. So I will be the first guinea pig! The beauty of this hybrid AOP system which you will not find in the single AOP S is the ability to cycle the ozone separately from the UV-C 50. Remember too much ozone can be a bad thing for the wood. 

I'm imagining a system where you balance the water in accordance to Nitros Dichlor/Bleach method found on this forum, and turn on the AOP for long filter cycles, especially prior to and during bathing. Step out of the tub and add a couple ppm of  Dichlor or bleach along with the AOP, repeat! You will be doing a big favor to your tub and yourself knowing your water is safe. Let's face it, we cannot dose our cedar tubs the way they need to be. You all have experienced the result, tub deterioration. No mater how much sanitizer you add it will go to work on the wood! We don't really have a choice unless you are able to drain after each use. 

Quote

 

THE MOST POWERFUL RESIDENTIAL POOL ADVANCED SANITIZER

DEL AOP® is dramatically more powerful than chlorine and other sanitizers, and even more powerful than ozone alone. CMP has the only residential AOP ozone/UV systems classified by NSF as a supplemental sanitizer.

 

So to sum it up. Go AOP in one form or another, no to Bromine, yes to low chlorine residual, maybe to low mps, yes to long filter cycles. BTW I have been in contact with some of the Ozone Pros at DEL to work out the kinks.

I believe this forum could benefit from having a section devoted to Cedar Tubs. I fully understand that a full Dichlor/Bleach regimen works for the majority of spa users, but now everyone can see its effects on wood. I see the need for chlorine but prefer not to bath in it, as well my wife has developed a case of swollen eyelids from the Chlorine. 

 

On 5/30/2019 at 12:31 PM, cedarmike said:

I too damaged the interior of my cedar tub and have been looking for information on how to repair it. Seems my damage resulted from over use of bromine when my UV system was down. Anyway I found this today and while I have not tried it yet I am going to give it a shot this weekend. 

https://www.cedartubs.com/blogger/tickets/af1c1eb4a13736d8431a107b557fed1bCedar-Tub-General-Care-Manual-Rev-13.pdf

I see your post is well over a year old so if you have any pointers since I would appreciate it.

Thanks

I have read through the above link to the manual cedartubs.com. It is thorough but perhaps ill advised to use bromine. Again weigh it against Dr. Spa's 30 years in cedar tub building. Cedartubs is against chlorine use, I have been doing chorine in low residual for 3 years (but it is time consuming) without any signs of wear on the cedar. I even super chlorinate prior to changing water and cleaning out the tub. Cedartubs suggest only using Dichlor but what about cya levels locking up FC? I could go on. Ozone alone can be damaging. An ionizer alone is iffy. We need a new program as well thought out as Nitros method! 

 

 

 

Please tell me about your tubs. How old, sanitizing methods, who built them, equipment, etc.?

 

As for the damaged wood fibers you have a couple of options: 

1. Carefully, with a scotchbrite pad (maroon or grey) the surface, rinse it down with a gentle hose then wet vac out the debris. It might be good to use Ahh Some spa purge afterwards to really get a clean tub, maybe a couple of cycles.

2. Have a vinyl liner made. This sort of negates the aesthetics of owning a cedar tub.

3. I've been thinking about fiberglassing the interior. Treat the tub as a mold and embed fiberglass cloth into epoxy. If or when my tub gets to the end of its lifespan or begins leaking this is the method I will take. This can allow the cedar to show through but the feel of wood will be gone. But on the bright side it will be as impervious as all the other fiberglass hot tubs!

Be in touch,

Michael

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have had a cedar tub for 11 months now. I use bromine. For the first 9 months I had a hard time keeping bromine in it...always seemed to be 0.5 to 1 ppm when tested....but everything worked well. I took the tub down for a few weeks to do a few things and when started it up I got a second floater and am keeping bromine at like 3....but now I have a chemical odor. 

 

But back to the purpose of the post....when I add granules and don't brush them well they were settling on the bottom and were creating the white pulpy material you all speak of. 

 

So when hottub was down I sanded the bottom with 120 grit on a random orbit sander. And then applied two coats of total boats penetrating epoxy. It keeps the original look but seals wood and seems to be chemically resistant.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/2/2021 at 7:40 PM, NB...er said:

I have had a cedar tub for 11 months now. I use bromine. For the first 9 months I had a hard time keeping bromine in it...always seemed to be 0.5 to 1 ppm when tested....but everything worked well. I took the tub down for a few weeks to do a few things and when started it up I got a second floater and am keeping bromine at like 3....but now I have a chemical odor. 

 

But back to the purpose of the post....when I add granules and don't brush them well they were settling on the bottom and were creating the white pulpy material you all speak of. 

 

So when hottub was down I sanded the bottom with 120 grit on a random orbit sander. And then applied two coats of total boats penetrating epoxy. It keeps the original look but seals wood and seems to be chemically resistant.

 

 

NB...R

Glad you are seeking a solution. How long did you have to dry out the tub before epoxy application? I do a lot of woodworking and have good experience with epoxy. Most epoxies I have used (west systems, system three) require 3 to 5 coats for a complete seal. A couple of things to keep in mind, now that you have sealed the inside of the tub I imagine the cedar will begin to dry out and shrink, so be alert for gaps opening up down the road. You may need to come back with a thickened epoxy later to address the dried out cedar. It may be best to allow the tub to completely dry out prior to epoxy application this way the adhesive can fill any loose joints.

Also, cedar tub owners need to avoid bromine. Please see Dr Spas posts on this forum. You have a one year old tub and it has done a lot of damage. The Dichlor/Bleach method is the way to go for cedar tub owners. Chlorine will dissipate so I add ~2ppm after bathing and then ~1 next morning to keep some residual. Floaters while making your life easy will destroy a wood tub very quickly. 

More news on the AOP system. I have purchased an AOP system from https://www.loveyourhottub.com. The owner Jennifer has many years in the ozone world working for DEL. 

I went with a DEL UV-C 50 for a uv chamber. This unit is designed for between 20 - 100 gpm and has 2" fittings. This unit is overkill for a spa, but it is full flow so every drop of water in my bypass filter line will pass through. I can run the UV-C for extended cycles with no detriment to the cedar fibers!!! This equals very safe water.

As a secondary sanitizer plumbed in prior to the UV-C will be a DEL Spa Ozone ( they that will be injected into a bypass manifold with a mazei injector. Please read about the AOP systems, the combination of ozone and UV-C create Hydroxyls which are exponentially more powerful than ozone and chemicals, beware that I will still adhere to the Dichlor/Bleach method albeit in very limited amounts. DEL has a smaller Spa AOP but it has a lower flow capacity and I don't plan on running the ozone for full cycles. Even though the ozone will be separated from the UV chamber it is still considered AOP. Cedar tub owners should be concerned about over ozonating their tubs since this can be as destructive as chemicals. The beauty about separating the ozone from the UV-C is that I can cycle on the ozone separately. For example, prior to bathing and during bathing I can run ozone with pump on high speed and air controls open to eliminate any chloramines and ensure a nicely sanitized tub. After bathing I will run a short filter cycle then turn off ozone, then add 2 ppm chlorine. The UV-C will come on automatically during filter cycles with a flow switch. The ozone can be timed for short bursts several times a day. From what I have read ozone degrades chorine so by the next soak there will be a tiny residual. UV-C and Ozone eliminate Chloramines so I imagine this should be close to drinking water fresh. I am so not into soaking in an overdosed spa.

I will keep you posted on how this experiment turns out.

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