35% Hydrogen Peroxide

[Tonxtub 0]

Yea I’ve never actually used anything else with the h202, I do have a ozoneator but like I said 2 cup of 35% and I’m good. Just picked up some more today and ordered some strips and I’m going to see where I’m at and how long it actually lasts. 

[Bobby A 0]

How often do you add 2 cups?  I was adding 2 cups with the water change and when things got cloudy last month, and then 1 cup/week.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Bobby A
added clarity

[Bobby A 0]

12 hours ago, Bobby A said:

 

Future:

Will try the H2O2 one more time.  Will add the Nature 2 stick and will give it a shock at the beginning to start it, let the chlorine clear and add H2O2.  Will add a little MPS each week and let it dissipate in air after every use (about once/wk).  Will watch H2O2 levels carefully.  I will update as things develop.  Hope this helps!

I've decided that if I use the Nature 2 stick, I should give a little chlorine instead of MPS each week.  Any thoughts on this?

 

[Tonxtub 0]

In the past I’ve only added once I do a drain. I did pick up 35% today and ordered strips. I’m going to keep a close eye on it and will post updates. I’ve never had cloudy but have had some skin looking like floaties. But I think that was from lack of filter rinse. I added one cup today and tested tonight and I was at 70parts h202. Had a tub and skin feels great! Crystal clear water and no smell at all! Oh I rinsed filter again today.

[Tonxtub 0]

Do you have an ozonator in your tub? @Bobby A

[Bobby A 0]

No, I do not.  I've heard pros and cons on ozonators and haven't heard anything enlightening yet unless you see it differently.  I also heard that ozone is not good to breathe.  

[Bobby A 0]

7 hours ago, Tonxtub said:

In the past I’ve only added once I do a drain. I did pick up 35% today and ordered strips. I’m going to keep a close eye on it and will post updates. I’ve never had cloudy but have had some skin looking like floaties. But I think that was from lack of filter rinse. I added one cup today and tested tonight and I was at 70parts h202. Had a tub and skin feels great! Crystal clear water and no smell at all! Oh I rinsed filter again today.

I've heard never drop below 100ppm.  I also read that if you really want to know how much above 100 you are which is the top level on the strip, take a sample and add 50% water to it.  If it still reads 100ppm, then you have at least 200ppm.  If it reads 75ppm then you have about 150 ppm and you can do the math on exact numbers.  

[Tonxtub 0]

I read keep it under 100parts, but like I said. I’m sure it has dropped right out and still kept water clear. Checked yesterday and it was at 30 parts. I’m really happy with how well it’s done without even keeping up with it. Like set it and forget it mentality. I’m just doing this cycle to see the parameters I am working with. Like I’ve told people around my town, if they want to see my water and smell it just pop by. It really is the only way as far as I concerned.

[Tonxtub 0]

And maybe I was using the wrong term. I meant the little bubbler pump that stays running to oxygenate the water

[Bobby A 0]

Last experiment:

 

OK, here we go again.  After last weeks disaster, I have now cleaned the tub to my satisfaction, shocked it again, on my 4th fill of water and hoping for the best.  

Here's what will be different this time:

• We will run the Nature 2 silver/charcoal cartridge.  The initial chlorine shock is needed to activate it.  I may add some MPS after bathing with the hope it will dissipate prior to our next use.  
• I added after a one day  of chlorine shock on this last fill, 2 cups 35% H2O2.  I read in several technical searches that H2O2 completely dissipates Chlorine safely and in fact it did. Also read that H2O2 will not react with any normal spa chemicals which is good
• We will open the cover at least once/wk on the weekends as H2O2 needs UV sunlight to activate against organics.  I had avoided this as UV light dissipates H2O2, but if needed, I will add H2O2 as needed.  I check twice/wk minimum to make sure I'm over 50ppm and try to stay over 100ppm.  I might even, after some more research, consider getting a UV system to use with the H2O2, but need more information before I go that far.  As I said it does dissipate the H2O2 faster.  I've read some posts where people have used this combination and have no problems after years of service.
• I will wash the filter at least once/month.  I haven't been doing that as my wife and I use the tub so infrequently.  We promise to use the tub more as we ache from gardening and other chores around the house.  Getting older is not fun.  She just turned 60 and I will be 65 soon but we are still working and young in spirit and health.  
• We added a scumbug sponge to the tub to absorb oils and such.  Not sure if this will help, but I want this experiment to go well, and will do whatever makes sense to alleviate the build-up.
• I believe the tub is cleaner now than it has even been since we got it about 5 years ago.  I've taken out all the jets and cleaned them individually and ran Jet Cleaner thru the pipes.  I probably should have done it twice, but time and effort was too much at this point.  I Will do it every 4 months when I drain and refill as my spa store guy says I should.  I have not done it in 5 years.  This may have contributed to the disastrous white and brown algae/fungus.  Most of the white gunk came out of the heating circulating jets so my guess is it was way overdue.  I never knew this was so important and blame only myself for not remembering what he told me 5 years ago.  

I hope this helps you all and I promise to update again as things develop or in 4 months in November when I drain and refill again.  BTW the Nature2 cartridge lasts 4 months so this is a good time to refill and change.

Good luck and let me know your thoughts!

[Tonxtub 0]

Sounds like a solid plan. Way more detailed and organized than I am. Keep us posted. I am a week in now and waiting for my strips. Pulled cover off this morning and she’s crystal clear. 

[mccpie 0]

Hello,

  

I have been running my Spa on H2o2 for a year now, and only have good thing to report.

If my PH and Alkalinity are well balance, the water is always clear.  I clean my filters once a week. I have to adjust my PH, Hardness and alkalinity once a month. For me it’s really the solution.  Now I am looking to buy some Technical grade H2o2 around Montreal, QC.  But from the local pool suppliers, I get a 4 liter bottle for 89$.  I know we can buy it for a lot less.  Does anyone know of a good local supplier’s?

 

thanks

 

[Karencookin 0]

Hi I’m new. We bought a home with an indoor hot tub and I can’t stand the  chlorine so I have been using hydrogens peroxide which I love but we get this cloudy dust in the tub no matter what we do. We were told to disconnect the olzanater wire and took out the filter. We were told to do this by the place we buy are product.. it’s not working what are we doing wrong.

[Sharonbader 0]

Hi. I’m looking into swithing to hydrogen peroxide in my hot tub

im in Vancouver. Where do people buy this from?

thanks!

sharon. 

[Sharonbader 0]

On 12/8/2017 at 12:38 PM, Nealv9z said:

Hey mmaloof, would you please let me know how I can contact you. I am in Sooke but I would really like to know how you managed to use Hydrogen Peroxide without getting white mould (which is disgusting, take my word on that). It has been a while but I am starting to get itchy skin again which to me means I need to empty my tub and refill it as the CYA is building again. I would much rather stick with H2O2.

When I used that regimen, I always kept the H2O2 around 100ppm which is even higher than recommendations. I must have been doing something wrong if it works for you. BTW, you can get the 29% H2O2 from Lifestyle Market also. They sell a 4 litre container.

 

Hi. 

 

wondering where you buy your h2o2. I’m in vancouver. 

 

Thanks

 

Sharon. 

[Kym 0]

I am  trying to convert my heart to two hydrogen peroxide because I have cancer I cannot find a filter to replace my existing filter that would work with hydrogen peroxide use can anyone please help me I have called several hot tub distributors then on Amazon I need to understand what type of filter is OK to use with hydrogen peroxide food grade hot tub thank you my name is Kym

[Andrew D 0]

Hi from London (Ont), I also using only Hydrogen Peroxide and have issues with my numbers going up and down. Is there something anything i cam also add to help work in addition to the peroxide. My water is always clear but I algae build up around jets and intakes.

Can you add small amounts of chlorine  to help or does that just cause the Peroxide to burn off faster? Or is a non-chlorine  shock better??

I also have a UV Light system in my Hot tub.

 

[LWS 0]

No one is saying what proper ph level is for h2o2 use in hot tub. Mine has been about 7.8 and eating h2o2 like crazy. Can’t keep 100ppm h2o2 for more than 24 hours. Help!

[HoustonHobbit 0]

WOW... I thought I wanted a pool to relax in but all this is making me second guess getting one. Nothing sounds easy or right. It sounds incredibly complicated and like a maintenance nightmare. So much for the websites that say all you need is H202. I'm glad I found this discussion before buying a 10 ft inflatable pool. I think a 15" deep kiddie pool that is 10x6 is the way to go... fill it up, swim and drain the dang thing. No chemicals, balancing acts, scum, mold, etc. My only problem should be trying to figure out where to store the dang thing til I fill it again...lol.

[RDspaguy 925]

Wow.

I normally would not respond to such an old thread, but will make an exception in this case for the sake of any future readers of this thread.

I have never used H2O2 personally, but have installed many H2O2/UV automated systems. I have never heard of using H2O2 without UV. I have never worked on an H2O2 tub that did not have melted rubber o-rings, gaskets, and seals.

Once your sanitizer drops to the point of bacteria/mold growth visible in the water your pipes are coated with it and forming a biofilm, which is resistant to sanitizers/oxidizers. Ahhsome is very effective at removing biofilm, but it can take repeated doses to get it all. Leave any, and your problem will return regardless of sanitizer levels. New spas are often contaminated at delivery and pre-loaded with biofilm from wet testing, storage, and shipping. This is why we recommend Ahhsome before use, and frequently thereafter.

Chemical oxidizers are unstable by nature, that is why they work so well, and will break down naturally. But organic contaminants (such as biofilm, mold, bacteria, people, etc) are what causes rapid dissipation. If your sanitizer is suddenly dropping rapidly, you likely have a contaminant issue.

Oxidation can occur from many chemicals, as many compounds contain oxygen. But it is important to note that oxygen (O or O1) is not really the stuff we breathe. We breathe dioxygen (O2), aka molecular oxygen. O1 (atomic oxygen) is what they call a free radical, and it combines with just about anything it contacts. This is the very definition of an oxidizer, it releases O1 in contact with organic matter. 

So as H2O2 in the water bumps into an organic contaminant it drops off the free radical oxidizer O1 (destroying the contaminant via oxidation), and leaves behind H2O (water).

Ozone (O3) is even more unstable (and therefore more reactive) and it drops an O1, leaving behind O2. So the results of H2O2 or ozone use is the same, they just leave behind something different.

Ozone (O3) is created by exposing dioxide (O2) in the air to ultraviolet radiation. This occurs naturally in the upper atmosphere, forming the ozone layer. It also occurs from the UV light from lightning, welding equipment, and other electrical discharge/arcing or UV light. This is how an ozone generator (ozonator) works. It is also how UV works, but it is reacting with water not air. Some studies suggest that UV causes a similar reaction in water as in air, creating H2O2 within the UV chamber rather than O3 in the ozone generator. And UV itself is deadly to many bacteria and microbes.

The problem with these systems, and the reason they are not approved sanitizers, is that only a small portion of the water is being treated, then is returned to a contaminant filled tub. There is no residual in the entire water volume to deal with contaminants. Would you add a cup of fresh water to your dirty bath water and consider it clean? Of course not. Now, with a high turnover rate, they can eliminate a great deal of contaminants, and so theoretically lower the amount of sanitizer needed in the right system with the right equipment. In my opinion their primary use in a spa is to burn off the chloramines (what you smell when you smell "chlorine") created by chlorine sanitation, and excess chlorine as well, thus leaving a low chlorine residual and no chloramines when you use it, after having treated it (heavily) with chlorine the previous day after use.

Nature2, or other silver ion "purifiers", can help, but have very slow kill times for many pathogens. The main benefit, from my research, seems to be the fact that it interferes with cellular division, so keeps those 5 million pathogens from becoming five billion before they can be oxidized or destroyed by ozone/UV, or low sanitizer levels. 

H2O2 does establish a residual, and use of any of the above will help the process, though ozone might actually oxidize H2O2 out (couldn't find any studies on it, but ozone oxidizes other oxidizers such as mps and chlorine), and UV might replenish it according to some but not all studies. 

I personally am a fan of nature2 and ozone when used with chlorine in a 24/7 circulation/injection system. But many chemical experts (which I am not) disagree on the subject. @waterbear can tell you all about it, as he is one of those chemical experts who disagree.

Now, as for @HoustonHobbit, you are talking about a pool in a spa thread. I have installed UV/H2O2 systems on pools, but consider them a waste and source of potential problems. Use chlorine, just like 99.99% of pool owners, and it is simple and cheap. This thread is about those who, for one reason or another, have chosen to not use the tried and true traditional methods of chlorine or bromine in their hot tub. Start your own thread in the pool section and you will get all kinds of advice to help with your decision. But your plan of an inflatable kiddie pool with no filtration or chemical sanitizer is a recipe for problems unless you dump it and clean it daily, and maybe even then.

[waterbear 181]

20 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Use chlorine, just like 99.99% of pool owners, and it is simple and cheap.

I agree.

20 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

But your plan of an inflatable kiddie pool with no filtration or chemical sanitizer is a recipe for problems unless you dump it and clean it daily, and maybe even then.

Even a kiddie pool needs sanitizer, pH adjustment, and chlorine stabilizer or you will be dumping and refilling daily.

Fun fact, everyone entering the pool adds fecal matter, urine, and sweat (which is almost identical to urine in chemical makeup) to the water no matter how clean they THINK they are which is why you want a fast acting EPA approved residual sanitizer. For pools there are three in the United States, Chlorine, Bromine (not suitable for outdoor pools since it cannot be stabilized against destruction by sunlight) , or biguinde/peroxide systems which are expensive and are usually sold to unsuspecting misguided people who want a chlorine free pool. Once they start having problems with pink slime, white water mold, and goo they usually switch to chlorine. Peroxide is NOT a sanitizer, it is an oxidizer so it is not suitable for swimming pool use as a primary sanitizer. Metal ions are not a primary sanitizer and require the use of chlorine wit them so why bother. Silver and MPS (Nature 2) is only a sanitizer at the hot temperatures found in spas and, while Nature 2 is available for pools it still requires the use of chlorine so why bother?