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Cracker1397

Milky water and foam with jets

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Hey guys I'm new to the forum and a new hot tub owner.  I've been searching around here for some answers to this problem but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for.  So here's my problem

I have had a dream maker hot tub for 3 weeks and about a week ago I started to notice some minor cloudiness in the water and also excess foam while the jets are running.  I added foam reducer and water clarifier and the foam lessened but the cloudiness worsened.  When I turn off the jets there is some foam that stays on the surface for an extended amount of time and there is a filmy residue kind of feel to it.   I have washed and cleaned the filter and all the levels appear to be in normal range.  If i leave the jets off the foam doesn't appear but the water is still cloudy.  Any help that someone can give me would be extremely appreciated.  I tried to post a picture of bubbles but the forum won't let me upload the pic because it's too large.  

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Is it a new hot tub or new to you? If it's older it might need the pipes inside cleaned out. Purge the tub to get the build up out. Good luck!

 

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I would double check the hardness on your tub. Too soft or hard of water can easily cause the symptoms you're describing. If the film/residue is chalky I'd guess you're too hard, if it's slimy you're to soft. I generally prefer my water on the higher side of acceptable, it tends to be less problematic. If you're hardness is good, excessive body care products like lotion or hair pucky could be the culprit. That crap will wreck a tubs water pretty quickly and clarifier has a hard time consolidating oils. Hope this helps and good luck.  

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Thanks for your replies.  It's slimy so I took the water to pinch a penny to test and they said I needed calcium booster.  I boosted it and the foam lessened but I just went ahead and drained it and refilled it.  Does anybody have a recommendation for a good bromine test kit that is accurate?  The strips seems to be way off.  Thanks again.

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The best test kit for bromine is the Taylor K-2106. Your cost will probably be somewhere between $50 and $75, but it will allow you to maintain your water chemistry over an extended period of time. I use bromine, and am at five months on the current fill. I will probably change water in about a month. You will likely need to purchase that  kit online as you won't find it locally very often. If you are in the US, the best price I have found online is Amato Industries.

You should educate yourself with information on this forum and the Trouble Free Pool Forum so that you understand how to balance and sanitize the water with bromine if that is your sanitizer of choice. Look at this, and read the other sticky posts on that forum and on the Hot Tub Water Chemistry section of this forum.

Oh, and if your foaming problem is from soaps and oils, you can remove them from the water by taking the sanitizer up to shock level and if necessary, holding it there till the water is clear. Shock level for bromine is 22.5 ppm so you will definitely need the K-2106 to be able to test for levels that high. The sanitizer will oxidize all of the various compounds that are causing the foaming and slickness, etc. You can use the tub up to 10 ppm, or even a little higher if you're not too sensitive.

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31 minutes ago, MPurcell said:

The best test kit for bromine is the Taylor K-2106. Your cost will probably be somewhere between $50 and $75, but it will allow you to maintain your water chemistry over an extended period of time. I use bromine, and am at five months on the current fill. I will probably change water in about a month. You will likely need to purchase that  kit online as you won't find it locally very often. If you are in the US, the best price I have found online is Amato Industries.

You should educate yourself with information on this forum and the Trouble Free Pool Forum so that you understand how to balance and sanitize the water with bromine if that is your sanitizer of choice. Look at this, and read the other sticky posts on that forum and on the Hot Tub Water Chemistry section of this forum.

Oh, and if your foaming problem is from soaps and oils, you can remove them from the water by taking the sanitizer up to shock level and if necessary, holding it there till the water is clear. Shock level for bromine is 22.5 ppm so you will definitely need the K-2106 to be able to test for levels that high. The sanitizer will oxidize all of the various compounds that are causing the foaming and slickness, etc. You can use the tub up to 10 ppm, or even a little higher if you're not too sensitive.

Thanks very much for the information.  I will read up on the info you gave me.  

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Alright so I bought the Taylor 2106 kit and I drained the tub, cleaned the filter, and balanced the water perfectly.  After only 4 weeks of use I got milky water again.  Only my wife and I use the hot tub, we are religious about showering before entering, there is no laundry detergent on our swim suits because we don't wear any.  What the heck could be the problem?  Any ideas?

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Please take current chemistry numbers and post them: total bromine, pH, total alkalinity, calcium hardness. Also please list all chemicals you have added to the tub since drain and refill.

With that information, I'll see if I can help you figure this out. I won't be able to post again until late afternoon tomorrow.

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I drained the hot tub today but I will get you my last numbers when I get up tomorrow and can reference what i wrote down on my last test.  I'm just curious why this has happened twice in a row.  It happened at the 3-4 week window last time also.  I'm wondering if there's a bloom or something in the pipes maybe.  

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Bromine was high because I had shocked it for 3 days as a last ditch effort to clear up the water.  

Bromine 40

total alkalinity 60

calcium hardness 340

PH 7.4-7.5

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I don't see anything in these numbers that would cause the milky water. With bromine at 40 ppm or above for several days, anything in the water that could be oxidized should have been oxidized already, and if the composition of the water is correct, the water should have been crystal clear. Calcium hardness was a little high but in itself should not cause this. I don't know why the previous poster focused in on calcium content, but in both my experience, and my reading, I have not seen that calcium would cause a problem like that. High calcium with a high calcium saturation index (CSI) would most likely cause scaling, not milky water. Also, most issues with water chemistry occur when the sanitizer is allowed to go too low or to zero, or when the pH is seriously out of range.

With all that said, I also need to know what all went into the water from the first refill about a month ago to the second drain yesterday. Please list everything that you put into the water during that time, with chemical names from the bottles if possible.

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Bromine plus from solus spa initially to get a bank

Calcium booster from solus spa (can't find chemical info)

ph down from solus spa sodium bisulfate 3 or 4 ozs total

chlorine free oxidizer. Potassium monopersulfate compound  I put in 1-2 tablespoons every other time we used the tub.  

Other than that I did not put in anything. Water stayed pretty balanced for last 4 weeks with minimal chemicals.  

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What exactly is in the "Bromine Plus"? I found the Pinch-A-Penny website listing for the Solus Spa Startup Kit, which lists, among many other things:

Quick Shot Bromine Booster: Establishes a quick bromide reserve in spa water (This should be close to 100% sodium bromide.)

Brominating Plus: A bactericide, algaecide, and disinfectant with no chlorine odor (This will not have any sodium bromide in it, so will not establish a bromide bank.)

I don't seem to quickly find any information on the web about the "Brominating Plus" product so I don't know what it contains. If you have that product, what does the lable list as ingredients? Is "Brominating Plus" the product you used for the bromide bank, or did you use the "Quick Shot" to establish the bromide bank?

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18 hours ago, Cracker1397 said:

Quick Shot bromine booster from solus spa initially to get a bank

Calcium booster from solus spa (can't find chemical info) [This would usually be 100% calcium chloride]

ph down from solus spa sodium bisulfate 3 or 4 ozs total

chlorine free oxidizer. Potassium monopersulfate compound  I put in 1-2 tablespoons every other time we used the tub.  

Other than that I did not put in anything. Water stayed pretty balanced for last 4 weeks with minimal chemicals.  

If these are the only things you have put into the water, there is nothing here chemically that would cause the water to become cloudy or milky, and also nothing here to cause foaming. Given that you and your wife are diligent about not carrying soap and other things into the water, there are only two things I can think of that could be at issue.

1. Since you didn't have a proper test kit during this time, and since you are only using MPS for an oxidizer to activate the bromine, is there some possibility that there were periods of time when the sanitizer level fell below the minimum, or even to zero? If so, this could allow bacterial growth or even possibly an algae bloom. I don't think that this is very likely however, since you were unable to clear up the cloudiness with several days of above shock level sanitizer. Incidentally, you would be better served to use bleach as an oxidizer instead of MPS. It is less expensive, but also reduces to sodium chloride as it activates the bromine. MPS does leave behind a gradually increasing buildup of potassium and sulfate compounds in the water.

2. I wonder if there is some form of deterioration in the plumbing adding something to the water that is causing this issue. The description of your tub symptoms do not match exactly with the calcium stearate issues that others have experienced, but if you haven't already, you should read through this fairly long thread on the problem. The folks that make ahh-some to purge the plumbing in hot tubs are fairly accessible by email and phone, and have a knowledge of the calcium stearate problem as well as other issues that tubs can have. @Ahhsomeguy occasionally posts here on the forum as well. They would be a potential resource for you to pursue in trying to run this down. Maybe @arobbert can join the discussion and help out more than I can.

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When we did our first fill on the hot tub we did not have a good test kit but after the water became cloudy we drained it.  It's possible in that time that the bromine was low.  After we refilled it I had the Taylor 2106 kit and used it for 4 weeks and then the cloudiness returned.  I used spa purge before this fill and drained it and filled it again a couple days ago.  I will see if the problem occurs again.  If it does I will check into ahh-some products next.  

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Find a local dealer that sells phosphate test kits- and test your tub and tap water. Phosphates grow over time and could cause all of the cloudiness and foaming that does not dissipate in a short period of time. 

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:04 PM, Cracker1397 said:

When we did our first fill on the hot tub we did not have a good test kit but after the water became cloudy we drained it.  It's possible in that time that the bromine was low.  After we refilled it I had the Taylor 2106 kit and used it for 4 weeks and then the cloudiness returned.  I used spa purge before this fill and drained it and filled it again a couple days ago.  I will see if the problem occurs again.  If it does I will check into ahh-some products next.  

Purge probably took care of it.

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Hey....I'm new to the forum. I noticed your post on the milky water with your dream  maker tub. I had a brand new Big EZ tub from Dream Maker that I bought from a local dealer. I had the exact same problem you did! I was at a total loss as to why this was happening. My dealer was of little help, they really didn't seem to care past the sale. So I looked online and couldn't figure it out either. Other hot tub friends had never had this happen. My water was balanced....drained and filled every three months...and I was using Nature 2 with MPS and dichlor once a week.

My water would appear to be perfect...until I turned on the jets and the air control. My water would instantly turn into milk. Like, it was crazy! Turn the jets off...wait say 30 seconds and the water is perfect again. It was so so frustrating. I got to the point that I super chlorinated the tub for 48 hours. Drained it, refilled and then ran a spa purge thru it. Drained again. Cleaned my filters in a power soak for 24 hours, washed them completely and dried them. Refilled the tub with an inline filter. Balanced it. Metal gone in. Fresh Nature 2 stick...and within a few days...BAM! Milk water.

My only guess is the jets on the tub could be to blame? Maybe that makes no sense, as I am no expert. I was thinking that maybe those jets...they way the introduced air into the water were to blame for somehow changing the look or composition of the water. Sounds crazy, but I could never figure it out.

I no longer have the tub as it sold with my house. I just bought a Jacuzzi J-345 and I will have that up in running in a few weeks. I am hoping this tub doesn't turn into a milk bath!

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15 minutes ago, Kjc1231974 said:

Hey....I'm new to the forum. I noticed your post on the milky water with your dream  maker tub. I had a brand new Big EZ tub from Dream Maker that I bought from a local dealer. I had the exact same problem you did! I was at a total loss as to why this was happening. My dealer was of little help, they really didn't seem to care past the sale. So I looked online and couldn't figure it out either. Other hot tub friends had never had this happen. My water was balanced....drained and filled every three months...and I was using Nature 2 with MPS and dichlor once a week.

My water would appear to be perfect...until I turned on the jets and the air control. My water would instantly turn into milk. Like, it was crazy! Turn the jets off...wait say 30 seconds and the water is perfect again. It was so so frustrating. I got to the point that I super chlorinated the tub for 48 hours. Drained it, refilled and then ran a spa purge thru it. Drained again. Cleaned my filters in a power soak for 24 hours, washed them completely and dried them. Refilled the tub with an inline filter. Balanced it. Metal gone in. Fresh Nature 2 stick...and within a few days...BAM! Milk water.

My only guess is the jets on the tub could be to blame? Maybe that makes no sense, as I am no expert. I was thinking that maybe those jets...they way the introduced air into the water were to blame for somehow changing the look or composition of the water. Sounds crazy, but I could never figure it out.

I no longer have the tub as it sold with my house. I just bought a Jacuzzi J-345 and I will have that up in running in a few weeks. I am hoping this tub doesn't turn into a milk bath!

 

15 minutes ago, Kjc1231974 said:

Hey....I'm new to the forum. I noticed your post on the milky water with your dream  maker tub. I had a brand new Big EZ tub from Dream Maker that I bought from a local dealer. I had the exact same problem you did! I was at a total loss as to why this was happening. My dealer was of little help, they really didn't seem to care past the sale. So I looked online and couldn't figure it out either. Other hot tub friends had never had this happen. My water was balanced....drained and filled every three months...and I was using Nature 2 with MPS and dichlor once a week.

My water would appear to be perfect...until I turned on the jets and the air control. My water would instantly turn into milk. Like, it was crazy! Turn the jets off...wait say 30 seconds and the water is perfect again. It was so so frustrating. I got to the point that I super chlorinated the tub for 48 hours. Drained it, refilled and then ran a spa purge thru it. Drained again. Cleaned my filters in a power soak for 24 hours, washed them completely and dried them. Refilled the tub with an inline filter. Balanced it. Metal gone in. Fresh Nature 2 stick...and within a few days...BAM! Milk water.

My only guess is the jets on the tub could be to blame? Maybe that makes no sense, as I am no expert. I was thinking that maybe those jets...they way the introduced air into the water were to blame for somehow changing the look or composition of the water. Sounds crazy, but I could never figure it out.

I no longer have the tub as it sold with my house. I just bought a Jacuzzi J-345 and I will have that up in running in a few weeks. I am hoping this tub doesn't turn into a milk bath!

I started using bleach as my oxidizer and I have been able to keep the water clean and clear for as long as necessary.  Not sure why that made a difference but it did

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