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SPA Chemistry Just Right But Still Get Bubbles


bbrian017

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I have my chemistry done just right, I run a brand new bromine tub.. is it normal to always have a small amount of bubbles and tiny brown/white bubble scum like floating around during your hot tub usage?

Perhaps if anything my bromine is a little high at times still learning how to manage that... filter is new, cleaned every week minimum, I shock after usage.. non chlorine shock,, total hardness is good, ph and alkalinity is good... ideal... even tested from local shop weekly.

I'm in it daily for 2 hours, plus sometimes for 40 minutes with my 2 year old and 4 year old... my wife and I go it it every night for at least 45 minutes..

I was hoping to have friends in it this weekend for my party, I just want to ensure I have a nice clean tub and safe tub for my guests.

I just the dazzel spa products line for all my chem.. my tub us 215 gallons, Freeflow Spa, Cascina Hot Tub 4 person.

Maybe I will jump in it now and try to take some pictures.. show you what I'm referring too.

Ok see images here https://goo.gl/photos/27XJzLbrHigvyGLr5

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"A small amount of bubbles and tiny brown/white bubble scum" is not normal. Your pictures indicate cloudy water as well. If your chemistry were "done just right" the water would be crystal clear with no residue.

I can't find anything about "the dazzel spa products line".

I could make some suggestions if you will describe how you manage your water chemistry and what products you use.

For example, I use the bromine three step method in my tub. I have a bromide bank of at least 50 ppm of sodium bromide. I have about 50 ppm of borates to help stabilize pH. I use bromine tabs (BCDMH) in a floater exactly like the one you have. I use 8.25% bleach to oxidize bather waste after each soak. I manage pH and TA by adding baking soda. Those are the only things I use regularly in my tub. I have dry acid if needed, and use calcium chloride to increase calcium hardness at initial fill. I use no other products, and my water is crystal clear.

You need a good test kit to manage a tub properly. Test strips are not accurate or reliable enough, and pool store testing can be wildly variable and inaccurate. A proper kit for a bromine tub is the Taylor K-2106 test kit. It is a bit pricey at $50 to $75 or more depending on where you get it, but it includes the FAS-DPD test for bromine which is essential for good management. The best internet price I have found in the US is at Amato Industries.

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Hi MPurcell, thank you for your feedback on the matter. My water is actually clear unless I have my air and pump on then it gets cloudy but it's only from oxygen from what I can tell. Once the air and pump are off, I'm back to crystal clear water. I am such an amateur I have no idea what you mean by bank, I have heard others use this term as well. I typically use the strips and try to keep my bromine etc within the colors as close as possible.

I bought the tub used 2 years old, when I got it it was sitting in dirty water, they are possibly suggesting I put in a cleaner run it 2 hours drain and refill. They are thinking possibly a pipe fungus or growth. p.s. this is the company here, https://dazzlewatercare.com/

I use ta = to increase ph, than little ph to bring up to perfect level, bromine granules to start the bromine high enough and a floater to try and keep it at a proper ppm.

I have added pictures on my chemical products into the shared google drive.

I will also try to get a hold of a better test kit I agree these strips are very hard to tel where you are.. the first picture is all my chemicals, the seccond is what I do in the specific order to get to my desired levels for ta, ph, bromine and hardness

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Dazzle brand by Backyard Industries is a Canadian company. Are you in Canada? If so, finding a proper test kit will be a little harder, or at least more expensive.

I  am unable to find ingredient lists for your products. The company does not make their material safety data sheets available publicly as far as I can tell.

TA+ will most likely be sodium bicarbonate (common baking soda). pH+ will probably be sodium carbonate (common washing soda). TH+ will probably be calcium chloride.

I can't guess what is in the bromine granules, except that it is intended to increase active bromine, so it probably contains some form of bromine/chlorine, maybe granulated BCDMH.

The one named amaze is probably potassium peroxymonosulfate or MPS which is the ingredient for non-chlorine oxidizer.

You didn't show the container for the bromine tabs you use in the floater. I would guess you are using 1" BCDMH tabs.

If I am right, then everything you are using is fine, if a little expensive. You can get baking soda and washing soda at the grocery store for a fraction of the price. And common household bleach works as well as MPS as an oxidizer, actually better, and much more economical.

Have you used any other products in the water than these?

In a bromine tub it is recommended to use sodium bromide to establish a bromide bank when you first fill the tub. The usual amount added is about 50 ppm. Sodium bromide is not a sanitizer, however. It is the common salt of bromine, just like sodium chloride (table salt) is the common salt of chlorine. When you add an oxidizer, the sodium bromide is converted into active bromine (hypobromous acid). When the active bromine neutralizes bather waste, ammonia and other organic materials in the water, it returns to sodium bromide, and can be activated again and again with an oxidizer. If you started with bromine granules, you added a small amount of bromine which will convert to sodium bromide. As you go forward with the use of the tub, adding more bromine granules and using bromine tabs, gradually bit by bit the bromide bank will be increased up to the level it should be.

I would venture a guess that your foaming problem is due to the amount of bather waste, along with possibly other contaminants from the large number of bather hours of usage, and that you are not adding enough oxidizer to fully neutralize the bather waste. A low bromide bank could contribute as well, but that would be mostly in the first month or so after a new fill if you don't use sodium bromide. From your first post, is sounds like you have something on the order of 4 person hours per day of soaking time, which is quite a bit more than usual. At 104 deg F the adult body produces about 6 pints of perspiration per hour, less at lower temperatures, but you get the idea. Also soap from swimming suits, cosmetics, suntan lotions, urine, etc can all contribute to the demand for sanitizer.

If it were my tub, I would give it a good thorough shock treatment, taking the bromine up above 22.5 ppm, and then once it comes down, try to keep the bromine level in the range of at least 6-10 ppm for a week or two afterwards, and see if that removes everything that is causing the problem. You can use the tub at 10 ppm or below. I've actually used my tub above 10 ppm, up to 15-18 ppm, without any negative effects, although my wife who is very sensitive tends to notice that the bromine is high. Again, you need a good test kit because most test kits and strips don't go up that high.

 

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Yes I am in Canada, gets cold here -38 at times... I hope to make it though 1 winter lol...

I really appreciate all your help, my bromine tablets picture has been added into the drive.

I have also received the test back from my local spa and my phosphates level was 2400 "I think it was ppm as a measurement" and that change was over only a week, previously at 10. The system reported 2400 but they only wrote 1000 on the sheet which was weird.. So you are right it's clothing... detergent soaps... Simply put I need to wash hot tub clothing in water and perhaps a little bleach only?

They have sold me a product from that dazzle line... I need to add the entire bottle and clean my filter a few times it will also continually work at removing phosphates... Hopefully I can contain this issue... I'm doing this now the water is becoming very clear...

I also noticed how important opening and cleaning in between the filter sections was tonight, I'll no longer simply rinse it! I'm also wondering if the phosphates came from my 2 year old swimmer underwear we bought from Walmart. I'm just not sure so I'm starting to pay much more attention. At that cost of that products I'll just do a refill next time lol... I'm also going to make the family shower prior to going in... should help a lot as well.

I have also increased the duration on my filter cycles, it was 2 filter cycles per day at 30 minutes I put them at 3 hours now.. I bet that will help a lot.

I hope I answered all your questions considering the time and effort you have spent here with me, thank you again.

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One suggestion I have heard for hot tub swimwear is to have dedicated suits that are not used for anything else. After you soak, remove the suits and hang to dry, but do not wash them in the machine. Since you are only using them for the tub, the sanitizer will keep them clean, especially if you shower first. Then when they do get washed in the machine periodically, maybe every month or two, run them through multiple rinse and spin cycles to remove the soap as much as possible.

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