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2002 Caldera Paradise Martinique intermittent heating and other questions


TheWGP

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Well, I got a "free" hot tub, a 2002 Caldera Paradise Martinique, and as you might imagine, it's not perfect so I'm looking to troubleshoot.  Upon startup, everything went according to the owner's manual, the tub heated up overnight, and we enjoyed it the next day, with all features working fine. 

We noticed two things: 

1) the in-spa light does not function, though the indicator goes on on the panel when the Light button is pushed (and behaves as it should, 4 presses to turn the icon on the panel off).

2) the topside control panel had some sections of the LCD numbers not fully working.  All the icons work, but the numbers don't show up fully.  Pressing temp up and down shows it's cycling through the temperatures correctly, from what I can tell. See the pics for an idea of what the LCD issue is.  Holding Set down for 3 seconds flips the display appropriately, and the same physical "sections" of numbers don't function as when it's the other way.  Thus, I can figure out the temp a little better by flipping the display and doing some guesswork.  The TEMP icon has been solid lit every time I have observed it other than the first couple of minutes after it first started up, when it was flashing, and then it went solid and stayed that way, and is still solid tonight.

We were OK with these two things, figured I would get a replacement light (not sure which one to get, as I see both LED and bulb styles online?  Any help there?)

 

However, we then went out tonight, Monday, late night,  and the water was cool with a temp display in the 80's.  I hit the Temp Up button, and the heater immediately kicked on - I have a power  company app that lets me monitor my usage in real time, so I know this for a fact (you can see the spike on the picture in the album).  I went inside for a minute; when I came back, the spa appeared to be doing an automatic clean cycle.

I opened up the control box to see if anything was funky in there.  I found the Hi Limit LED lit solid green, and the Heater On button solid red.  The LED in the middle that I couldn't see a name for - what is this? -  was also lit up solid red.  I took a couple of pictures, and then pulled the filter and washed it off with a hose just in case there was some issue there.  (Yes, I know I should buy a new filter - not 100% sure which one to get, though - any help there? The back of the owner's manual says 75sqft, but the one in there is 50sqft?)

 

At some point, the red LED in the middle went off, which was when I took a couple more pictures.  I feel warm water coming out of the bottom jet it normally does, and I reinstall the filter, and button everything back up.  I'm not 100% sure if I buttoned back up before, or after, feeling the warm water, actually.  According to my power company app, it is continuing to heat.

 

Any ideas here?  I'm wondering if the top control board might be a culprit since it seems flaky in the LCD display - the heater relay board, I've gathered from reading on here, is notorious for failing on these, and I still have the original style working somehow, but I see no scorch marks at all and the heater DOES appear to be working - just intermittently.  Oh, and the flow coming out feels as strong as it did when everything was working fine, which feels pretty strong to me, i.e. I do not think the flow is being limited.  The circ pump is definitely working - verified by touching it and it's whirring along, water shooting through.  All jets seem to work fine, blower works fine.  

 

So, in sum, my questions are:

Light - what to replace with?

Filter - which one to use?

Heater intermittent - why, what should I check or replace?  I'm fairly handy and have no issues replacing parts myself.

 

Below is a pic album, hopefully this helps!  Note the 3 pics at the bottom show Sunday, Monday and so far on Tuesday's energy use - the solid blue bar is the heater on when it started up (late night Saturday).  As you can see, it stayed on all the way to midmorning Sunday.  It did get up to 102, though I don't have a floating thermometer yet to check with.  We used it Sunday afternoon, and it does appear to have used power during that.  Then, I went out at 9pm Sunday to check chemicals, and I think I hit the Temp button just to check on it - and it appears the heater kicked on again, which you see in the graph.  Yesterday, Monday the 3rd, the late-night spikes are when I went outside and all this happened.  Today, Tuesday the 4th it's 1:32am here (as of my edit before bed) and according to my app it is still going, so it's been on solidly since 11-something pm when I first discovered this.  Not sure why it stopped in the middle - that may have been when the clean cycle ran, or I opened the control board cover?

 

Photo album: http://imgur.com/a/SOz3x

Thanks for any help, and sorry for the voluminous post!

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My first recommendation would be to replace the control panel.  If some of the LED segments in the center are burned out, it's possible that some of the LED's on the edges (for summer mode, and/or temp lock) are also burned out.  Having the temperature drop 20 degrees overnight certainly sounds like you could be in summer mode.  Also, you said that pressing the TEMP UP button turned the heater on.  A single press of the TEMP UP button should show you the temperature, not turn the heater on.  You would have to continue pressing TEMP UP to increase the temp.  One of the microswitches in the topside may be shorting out and giving a temperature press without you even realizing it.

Filters are easy to replace.  It sounds like the previous owner used whatever they could find that fit, which isn't exactly the end of the world, but you should get the filter the manufacturer recommends.  Most of the larger dealers (like spadepot.com) have filter selection "tools" on their websites.  You can also check Proline, Clarathon, or any of the other filter manufacturers' websites, where they will have charts to help you pick the right one.  If that doesn't help, just measure the diameter of the hole in the bottom of the filter.  Notice how it fits in the tub, either by a pair of notches, fine threads, coarse threads or just push on over a mounting post.  Measure the length and diameter of the filter.  Use those measurements to buy the filter that fits.

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Actually, all the LED icons on the edges work - including summer mode.  I successfully turned everything on and off - both spa and temp lock, summer mode, etc.  

Summer mode was my first thought, so I turned it on and off per the manual - the icon lit up when it was turned on, and went off when I turned it off.

A single press of Temp Up does show me the temperature it's set to - I suppose it is possible I'm pressing it more than once before it starts heating, I haven't actually been monitoring the usage to see when it kicks on PRECISELY, just that it's contemporaneous with when I'm messing with it.  Very possible that microswitches are shorting or something. The buttons all seem to work appropriately so I had hoped it was just a display burnout issue.

Interestingly, my power app shows the tub heating last night - see attached photo (the super high part is where we also had the dryer going) - anyway, the tub got up to temp and then I see spikes every hour or so!  This is what I had expected to see, some heater usage to keep water temp.  I just checked it and it does seem to be at temp (didn't touch any buttons).  

 

Still, though, I do think a new topside control board is in my future, I'm not just going to hope things keep working right based on one morning's results.  For now, since I need it anyway, I just ordered a Pleatco PCD50 based on my best guess using spadepot, calderaspapartsplus, etc. - I'm actually heading to work so no time to go back out and measure, but for $11 with Amazon Prime shipping to arrive on Thursday, it's worth a shot.

 

Any thoughts about the light?  Seems like a pretty easy thing to replace, I guess I should just open up the equipment compartment and pull the light assembly out and see if I can find any part numbers to order it by, or see if there's a bulb to replace or what?

Screenshot_20170404-085843.png

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A very common cause of intermittent heating is dirty filters.  Since you said you cleaned the filters after you had the overnight temperature drop, and haven't had a temperature drop since then, that may have been your problem.

I could see loosing several LED segments without the entire topside being bad.  That's up to you, if the inconvenience is worth the cost of a new topside.

It looks like this may be the light you need:  

http://www.pool-spa-supplies.com/watkins-caldera-spas-light-main-led-color-spaglo-72508

I'd still pull your light out first and make sure it's the correct one.  From your photos, it looks like you have a single cable with two connectors, which is what I put up a link for.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, bit of an update:

The tub ultimately quit heating entirely, and I swapped out the heater relay board.  I wonder if that may have been part of the problem all along, because when I removed the board, I discovered that someone had clearly soldered on the back of the board - I imagine to install new relays or something of that nature.  In any event, replacing the heater relay board seems to have the heater going fine so far.  Moral of the story is, I think, is replace the heater relay board at the first sign of trouble.  The new board definitely seems better designed and will hopefully last a long time.

Since I was over the free shipping requirement, I also replaced the light with, not the one ScubaDave linked, but this one, after pulling out the old light and matching it up online:

http://www.pool-spa-supplies.com/watkins-caldera-spas-light-led-blue-spaglo-02-08-72509 and that's working fine.

I thought about getting the upgrade kit to use the multi-color one SpaDave linked, and also add LED's to the handle, with a light controller, but figured I should get things to a known-working condition before trying to get fancy!

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A heater relay board is a common problem, although I've never seen one work intermittently, usually it's either they're burned up or they're not.

Still, before spending the money, I'd always recommend checking the voltage coming out of the board and going to the heater, rather than just assuming it's the problem.  There are still plenty of issues that could prevent heating.

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Well, with the benefit of a week's use and energy monitoring, everything has been normal - knock on wood.

I neglected to mention that I didn't bother checking voltage because once it stopped heating intermittently, and went to not heating at ALL.  Once I got to the point of close inspection, I was able to observe a tiny scorch mark on the front near a relay, which I've read on here is a classic sign of heater relay board death, so I replaced it.

 

I have the service records for this spa, and it appears that the heater relay board has been replaced once before, in 2008. Then, though it is not dated, there is a handwritten note about needing either a new heater relay board or a field repair on the heater relay board, with what appears to be the owner's notes from a phone call giving a quote for replacement vs. "field repair."  That note was "later" in the stack of service records, perhaps in the 2012 timeframe judging from the papers before and after it.

This, along with the obviously not factory original soldering I observed on the back of the board when I ultimately removed it, leads me to wonder if perhaps in that case the owner opted for a "field repair" on the board, which was of the original style with the flag terminal connections for white and black from the heater.  

I do not know what impact this may have had, and still wonder if intermittent heating may rear its head again later, but so far, the 'new style' - I believe 4th generation - heater relay board is working, the tub has kept temp automatically since Sunday, and with the light replacement, the only base functionality issue with the tub is those dead LCD segments in the temp readout.

I do expect to have to replace other parts at some point - it is a 2002 spa after all, fifteen years old, though it has been serviced in the past, which helps.  I'm handy enough to do that,  but everything is working on this tub for now, so I'm going to probably turn my attention to reconditioning or replacing the one (sticky) VersaSsage jet and reattach a couple of slats that were knocked off the sides in transit.

 

Thank you, ScubaDave, for your helpful posts!

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  • 6 years later...

If a low flow heater is bad on a 2002 caldera martinique hot tub, could that cause the temperature to go down after a while?
 

Problem:

if I let my tub sit for any length of time it will lose temperature. I have it set at 102, but if I don’t use the tub for a couple days the temperature goes down to lower 90’s. What I have noticed is, if I go out in the mornings (every morning) and turn the jets on, and not touch it again until the same evening; the tub will stay at temp until I leave the tub alone for a couple days.

So when I noticed a temperature change about a month ago, in that time I have:

1. Replaced the filter with new (thought dirty filter)

2. Emptied the hot tub and refilled it with fresh water and chemicals (thought possible scale issue)

3. Ran it several time to get the air out of any part of the system (after draining complete)

4. Ran a cleaning cycle several times with a hot tub cleaner

5. Double checked that the limit switch light is steady green and the heater on light is steady red.

6. Double checked that the summer mode is NOT on

7. Locked the key pad to 102

8. Checked for proper voltage at the pins for the heater

9. Confirmed the circulation pump IS working

10. Checked the ohm reading on the heater (7k ohms)

i still to this day, am having the issue please help!!!

 

 

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