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Gecko in.clear bromine salt generator – my experiences


shoelace

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How does it work? - You add 3.5 lbs of sodium bromide into the spa water. The sodium bromide separates into sodium ions & bromide ions. As the spa water is pumped through the electrodes in the bromine generator the bromide ions are turned into the bromine sanitiser. That sanitiser performs it’s function before turning back into bromide ions and the process repeats.

The bottom line is that you add the 3.5 lbs of sodium bromide once and that’s it ... until you drain and refill your spa ... no other chemicals are required. 3.5 lbs of sodium bromide costs about 40$.

My father had one of the early bromine salt generators installed in his spa back in 2005. It worked very well for him. He only needed to check the spa chemistry now and then to make sure it was working properly – but he never had any problems. My parents would leave on vacation for many weeks at a time and when they returned the spa chemistry would remain perfect. His bromine generator finally wore out last year. It had lasted for 10 years. Since his spa was pretty low-end ... and getting old, he decided not to replace the unit and instead switched to bromine pucks. I asked him how he compared using the pucks to the bromine generator – he said he much preferred the generator because he never had to do anything.

So back in 2013 when I bought my spa, I decided I wanted a bromine salt generator for water sanitisation. The generators work better with 24-hour recirculation pumps – so I made that a requirement for the spa I would buy. (However, my father’s spa did not have a 24-hour recirculation pump and his generator worked fine).

The odd thing was that when looking for a spa back in 2013, I did not find any dealers who recommended bromine salt generators. They were pushing all sorts of other hokey pseudo-scientific sanatiser systems. But, I could not find anyone in the industry that had anything positive to say about the bromine generators. But, at least I had my fathers experience to go by ... otherwise I surely would not have taken the risk.

I chose to buy an H2O Banff spa that featured a 24-hour recirculation pump. I assumed that manufacturers of spas with recirc pumps would be marketing the fact that they work well with bromine generators. Surprisingly to me this was not the case, however, H2O did sell the spa with a Gecko in.clear bromine generator well integrated into the pump housing.

So, my personal experiences using a bromine salt generator? ... Great. No problems at all so far (after 3-1/2 years). Similar to my father – set it up, check in now and then – and it’s good until the next water change (twice per year in my case).

So why is this sanitisation system not more popular? I think the problem is that there is no automated feedback adjustment. You need to tune the system yourself by using litmus tests to check how far you are from ideal bromine levels and then adjusting the power to the electrodes appropriately to correct. And you need to be patient – allowing several days for the system to stabilized before using the tub. But once the system is tuned – you lock it in and are good until the next water change. But you need to think about it. For example, if your filter is blocked, you will not be getting the same flow through the electrodes and your bromine levels will go down. You will need to either clean your filters or increase the power to the electrodes to correct.

Another thing is that you need to start out with good water – water within certain parameters. If your water is not good enough you need to treat it first. I imagine this would be a pain in the neck. Luckily for me, Montreal water is fine ... so I don’t need to do anything to the water. But it may be worthwhile checking the water in your area first before investing in a bromine generator system.

The other great thing is that I never feel like I need a shower after using a tube with a bromine salt generator system. The water feels good on the skin without any bad odour.

By the way, my understanding is that Bromine salt generator systems are suited for spas whereas salt chlorine generator systems are better suited for swimming pools.

I read somewhere that the saltiness of the water is equivalent to tears ... hence, not sufficiently salty to cause rust issues. However, I suppose that if you have a slow leak somewhere the evaporation may concentrate the salt. But this has not been a problem yet for me nor my father.

If I identify any problems or issues with my bromine generator system in the future I’ll be sure to update this thread.

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Excellent post. Thank you.

I think a reason that they aren't promoted by spa stores is that you won't be buying the "special" chemicals that they sell.

So many folks are looking for a magic chemical that they can buy and chuck into their tub rather than spend the time to understand the (simple) process of keeping it balanced and sanitary. One of these generators is probably the closest thing to a "magic" solution.

I hope to get one some day. Bleach into a bromine spa is cheap and easy enough for me and my present budget.

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I am intrigued by this post since my spa gets left alone for weeks at a time also. It is set up with a 24/7 recirc pump for filtration. I use bromine pucks in a floater and an ozone generator. The spa clarity is perfect, the water feels fine, but i have noticed a low pH reading, actually very low, acidic level. My jet pump had a small leak due to an old o-ring, but recently it is not working at all when turned on, just hums. If it is the acidity that corroded the pump or motor I need to make a change after I spend $700 for a new jet pump.You did not mention any use of ozone. Now I am wondering if it is the ozone that is continually being pumped into the water that has caused the aCIDICTY (stupid caps). Any ideas on this? Thanks Now I am off to look up the Gecko in.clear system. This forum is great.

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1 hour ago, mrwrick said:

I use bromine pucks in a floater and an ozone generator.

Both of those can work great but they can be tough to regulate. If they are contributing and the tub is not being used then you'll likely have way too much sanitizer.

The same can happen with a BSG if you don't know what output to set it at.

Even if you did switch to a BSG you need to take the time to assess the needs of your tub. There is no one "formula" to maintain a spa. We all use them differently.

The bottom line is figuring out what it takes to keep the bromine level at 2-3ppm between uses and then how much "booster" to add after bathing to account for that and be left at 2-3ppm until your next soak.

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I notice that most (if not all) posts on this site regarding salt generator systems are for chlorine salt as opposed to bromine salt. I read about Onzen & ACE – but not about any specific bromine generator systems.

Does anyone else besides me have experience with bromine salt generator systems?

When my father bought his bromine salt generator back in 2005 the consensus he heard was that chlorine salt generators were designed for pools & were not effective for spas due to the higher temperatures & PH range ... but that the bromine salt generators were more stable & very effective for spas.

Anyone know how much truth there is to that? I’m just trying to reconcile the positive experience I’ve had with my bromine generator vs some of the more negative posts regarding chlorine salt generators.

I have not read any discussion regarding the advantages & disadvantages of each system. Anyone?

 

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  • 2 years later...

I just wanted to update this because my bromine generator electrodes burned-out after 5 years.  I asked my father specifically and he said his also lasted about 5 years.  Replacement electrodes run about 300$ - and the whole system costs about 800$ when originally installed.  The electrode replacement was an easy job. 

Hence, Lifetime costs running the system assuming:  12 year life of unit, 4 year life of electrode cartridge & 2 salt loads per year = 800 + 2x300 + 2x12x40 = 2360$

Hence, average cost per year of bromine generator system per year = 2360/12 = 197$ per year

So a bit under 200$ per year if my calculations are correct.  It'd be interesting to compare that to the price of chemicals.  Personally, I have no idea what they cost as I have never had to add any.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sodium Bromide is now BANNED in Canada and it is recommended that all "Salt" systems be deactivated and removed. 

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/reports-publications/pesticides-pest-management/decisions-updates/reevaluation-decision/2018/sodium-bromide.html#a4

Artical: https://rnrhottubs.com/what-does-canadas-decision-on-sodium-bromide-even-mean/

Human Health

To protect the general population from residential exposure, the following risk-reduction measures are required for continued registration of sodium bromide in Canada:

  • Cancellation of all bromine swimming pool or spa electrolysis devices and sodium bromide products intended to be used with swimming pool or spa electrolysis devices.
  • Sodium bromide spa products used in combination with potassium monopersulfate will be removed from Schedule 2 of the Pest Control Product Regulations as part of future regulatory amendments and will no longer be permitted for use.
  • All chlorine swimming pool or spa electrolysis devices are to indicate that they are not to be used with bromide products.
  • All remaining sodium bromide swimming pool and spa products are to indicate that they are not to be used in combination with electrolysis, ozonation or UV.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Wow, I just read this a couple of days ago.  I feel super lucky that my bromine salt generating system is already set up - and that I was able to buy a big stack of sodium bromide charges at a good price before Canadian stocks run out.

The danger, apparently, is only when you use potassium monopersulfate in combination with the bromine salt generator.  Of course, you never ever need to use potassium monopersulfate when using a bromine salt generator - so the whole rule is completely stupid.  In fact, I have never had to add any chemical to my spa except for the initial sodium bromide charge after refilling my spa.

IMO this is a great loss for the Canadian spa industry.  Sodium Chloride salt generator systems are no substitute - I would not go that route.  In fact, if I had to replace my spa tomorrow , I'd find a way to procure myself another bromine salt generating system.  In this regard - USA is truly #1 - shame on Canada.

 

 

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I misread the report.  Potassium monopersulfate is considered problematic when used with sodium bromide spa sanitizers - but the report separately indicates risks associated with bromine electrolysis devices used with sodium bromide.

But it sounds like you need to be drinking your spa water to be at risk - not something that normal people would do.  In the appendix it suggests that the risks from one's spa is less than for taking a swim in the ocean - and no one is suggesting it is a risk taking a swim in the ocean.

Not sure what to think.  My guess would be that if you are using the bromine salt generating system as directed, and you don't drink your spa water, the risk is not significant.  Anyone have any expertise on the issue?

 

 

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49 minutes ago, shoelace said:

I misread the report.  Potassium monopersulfate is considered problematic when used with sodium bromide spa sanitizers - but the report separately indicates risks associated with bromine electrolysis devices used with sodium bromide.

But it sounds like you need to be drinking your spa water to be at risk - not something that normal people would do.  In the appendix it suggests that the risks from one's spa is less than for taking a swim in the ocean - and no one is suggesting it is a risk taking a swim in the ocean.

Not sure what to think.  My guess would be that if you are using the bromine salt generating system as directed, and you don't drink your spa water, the risk is not significant.  Anyone have any expertise on the issue?

 

 

That right there is the problem IMO. They are trying to save people from themselves. Have seen lots of spas and the homeowner knows nothing about how the system works and misuse the system and added products. As the systems get older they can create all kinds of funky stuff and problems unique to this type of system.

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RDspaguy - clearly there's an editing/typo issue with your post - because it is nonsensical.  You write that you have never heard of a bromine generator and then follow by writing that you have an opinion about them.

I'm guessing what you mean to say is that: because you have negative experiences with chlorine generators you just assume, based on no experience at all, that bromine generators have the same problems.  If so, you are not alone.  Seems like everyone who slags-off bromine generators has never actually had any real experience with them.  But you only need to read the operating manuals from each system to see that they are completely different.  Specifically, unlike chlorine generators, bromine generators you largely just set & forget.  Everyone I know who has a bromine generator system is totally satisfied - no issues.  Having said that, I actually only know 3 owners of bromine generators.  Somehow the chlorine generators, which I don't think are best suited to a spa application, have won the market.

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RDspaguy - wait, I think I misread something again!  I'm guessing that when you wrote "both bromine and chlorine generators" - you are not meaning "bromine generators" - just bromine in general.

If so, my apologies - unfortunately, that sentence can be read both ways.  However, I still maintain that one should not infer that problems with chlorine generators are shared with bromine generators without any evidence or experience.

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I have PLENTY of experience with Bromine Generators. Out dated and unnecessary technology and will be extinct in a few years with manufacturers going in other directions and away from bromine generators that are now banned in Canada. It may be working great for you but I have seen many that have failed and or been misused by home owners and created a laundry list of costly problems and I think to RD's point just another thing to go wrong. Usually a 6-8 year lifespan on the carbon rods.

Just my opinion based on 25 years in the field working on all makes and models.  

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Sorry for the confusion. The second meaning was my intent. 

I am a chemical minimalist when it comes to private spas, and not a fan of any continuous unmonitored feeder or generator. I feel, if you are going to have a continuous destruction of your balance, you should have a continuous on demand system to correct it. Otherwise, the damage you are causing outweighs the benefits, in my opinion.

I spend 5 minutes on my spa a week for maintenance. I treat it when it gets used, and check it once a week. Most weeks I DO NOT NEED TO BALANCE my water. I have clear, fresh smelling water. I do not get burning, itching eyes, rashes, scale, stains (and my well water here is pretty bad), foam, bleached out cover, rapidly deteriorated pillows, or frequent leaks and part replacements. I use 2 chemicals. I have a few others for emergencies, but they don't get used. I spend maybe $100 a year to maintain my spa, and my 7 year old uses it like a playground all year. I can't imagine a circumstance in which I would want to change my maintenance method.

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RDspaguy - fair enough.  Sounds like you have a great procedure that works well for you.

Personally, my spa chemistry knowledge and experience is very limited - it extends only to positive experiences with my bromine salt generator.  Hence, I'd like to understand what you mean by: "if you are going to have a continuous destruction of your balance, you should have a continuous on demand system to correct it.  Otherwise, the damage you are causing outweighs the benefits".

I'm thinking you mean that your balance is destroyed by using the tub - not sure what you mean by "on demand system to correct it".  Is that the person that adds chemicals to balance it?  And I'd like to know what the "damage" you refer to is.

Sorry if I'm missing something that might be clear to those with more expertise.

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CanadianSpaTech - Great to hear you have so much experience with bromine salt generator systems.  I'm taking that as an invitation to ask more questions.

Actually, I think your lifespan estimate for graphite cell replacement is overly optimistic - I think about 5 years is more realistic.

You state that the "laundry list of costly problems" occurs when the unit is misused or when it fails - correct?  Just to be clear - in your opinion, if the unit is not misused, or does not fail, there is no "laundry list of costly problems" - correct?  I can easily see that if you misuse your spa in any way ... regardless of setup ... you are asking for a "laundry list of costly problems" - but if the unit fails - don't you simply replace the unit?  I suppose that is costly - but by no means a "laundry list".  Am I misunderstanding something here?

Bromine salt generating systems were introduced to the market around 2005 - does that really make them outdated?  Seems pretty recent to me.  Maybe I'm getting old.

As for the technology being unnecessary - spas are an unnecessary luxury - that we think is worth it.  Similarly, bromine salt generators are unnecessary luxuries that appear to be similarly worth it.  Why wouldn't you want to tune your system once ... over a few days ... and lock it in until your next water change.  Is that not a wonderful luxury to add to your spa ownership?

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Bromine is a ph 4 in it's natural liquid state. I am not sure what bromine gas is, but chlorine gas as produced by a salt cell is very high ph and alkalinity. Whether it is lowering or raising your ph and alkalinity, there are problems associated with both conditions. In a continuous feed system you are continuously changing your ph and alkalinity as well as sanitizing your water. If you only adjust your balance (ph and alkalinity) once a day, you still spend most of the day with bad balance and the damage it causes. If you only adjust once a week... 

Chemical automation allows for continuous testing and adjustment of the water as it is being affected by the bromine, thus eliminating most of the problems associated with continuous feed systems. I feel the same about tablet feeders, and REALLY dislike floaters.

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RDspaguy - after water change it takes me a few days to tune my system.  Once tuned I test before using the tub for hardness, bromine, alkalinity & pH.  99% of the time my readings are perfect - falling nicely in the "ok" range of my test strips.  Maybe two or three times per year my bromine level is high or low - then I will tweek my setting.  And that's it.  After a 3 week vacation I will return and it will still read the same.  It's really boring.

I confess that there is a "boost" button on the unit that you use each time you use the tub.  If two people are using the tub - enter 2 then boost - and that seems the account for the load of the bathers.  I experiment occasionally to make sure the readings look good before and after using the tub - but no need really.

You mention adjusting the balance once per day ... or once per week.  Very strange - because I only change the setting a few times per year and my readings are spot-on.

Given all this - is it still possible that my generator is causing damage?  And I continue to wonder whether most people's negative experiences are related to chlorine salt generators - not bromine salt generators.  Again, I think the bromine salt generator is most suited to spas while the chlorine salt generators are most suited to swimming pools.

 

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If your ph does not run up or down over time you are good. Balance is the relationship between ph, alkalinity, and hardness. When I say balance, I am referring to adjusting your ph and alkalinity.

I find it very odd that your balance remains good. I was not able to find any info on the ph of bromine gas, but will be surprised if it is ph neutral. I would expect you to struggle to keep it balanced, as happens with chlorine generators and chlorine or bromine tablets, and liquid chlorine.

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2 hours ago, shoelace said:

CanadianSpaTech - Great to hear you have so much experience with bromine salt generator systems.  I'm taking that as an invitation to ask more questions.

Actually, I think your lifespan estimate for graphite cell replacement is overly optimistic - I think about 5 years is more realistic.

You state that the "laundry list of costly problems" occurs when the unit is misused or when it fails - correct?  Just to be clear - in your opinion, if the unit is not misused, or does not fail, there is no "laundry list of costly problems" - correct?  I can easily see that if you misuse your spa in any way ... regardless of setup ... you are asking for a "laundry list of costly problems" - but if the unit fails - don't you simply replace the unit?  I suppose that is costly - but by no means a "laundry list".  Am I misunderstanding something here?

Bromine salt generating systems were introduced to the market around 2005 - does that really make them outdated?  Seems pretty recent to me.  Maybe I'm getting old.

As for the technology being unnecessary - spas are an unnecessary luxury - that we think is worth it.  Similarly, bromine salt generators are unnecessary luxuries that appear to be similarly worth it.  Why wouldn't you want to tune your system once ... over a few days ... and lock it in until your next water change.  Is that not a wonderful luxury to add to your spa ownership?

Costly yes. Anywhere from $500-1000 to replace. In.Clear is now unavailable what you going to replace it with if it fails? Carbon rods in a lot of cases are not serviceable from the factory so you have to cut it out and replace not only the carbon rods but also re do plumbing. Something most homeowners are willing or capable of doing so add in service fees. Most systems have the electrical attachment exposed and have never seen one that is not corroded beyond repair. Cracked rods filling the spa with black soot everywhere. Units set to high by unknowing end users turning anything metal in the spa a beautiful blue green and seals around jets all soft and gummy prone to leaking. Lets add in the initial cost your dealer got you to pay and over the life of a spa you are in for thousands of dollars in cost when a simple water treatment plan is all you need. I get it your system has worked great for you and you want to share your experience. I am a Gecko fan and always promote buy Canadian. I am only trying to let you know my experience in the field.     

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CanadianSpaTech - Sure, generators are costly to replace - everything is costly to replace.  Pumps are costly to replace, heaters are costly to replace.  Point is, these things are not designed to be replaced on a regular basis.  Salt generators are not rocket science.  No reason for them to fail any sooner than any other spa component.  My father got one of the earliest Bromine salt generators in 2005.  His lasted 11 years.  I expect my more modern unit to last much longer.

I don't have these "carbon rods" you refer to - instead, I just purchase an electrode module.  Costs 300$ and took me 10 minutes to install - no technician required.  I'll need to do that every 5 years - no big deal.  My last module I ran for 5 years and then had to start turning up the setting.  Called Gecko and they confirmed the module was at the end of its life.  But certainly no black soot everywhere ... or blue green water - or gummy seals.  My generator has never offered such excitement ... it really is a very boring piece of hardware.

Sorry CanadianSpaTech, I really wonder if you are not conflating your Chlorine salt generator experience with Bromine salt generators.  Because your examples are alien to me.

And for the record, my spa dealer did not recommend a bromine salt generator.  He only installs these units on request.  When I asked him why he says he has clients that love them and clients that don't use them properly - so he does not recommend them.  Also, I am not a Gecko fan.  It just so happens that I bought a spa that uses many Gecko products - but I have nothing to compare to - so I can't be a fan.  Having said that - my Gecko products have not caused any problems.  I had to replace my spa's main console display within the warranty period (no biggie).  And I had a nice chat with a technical rep to confirm that I needed a new electrode module.  So nothing to complain about.

 

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RDspaguy, yep, never had to struggle to keep the chemistry balanced.  I think that with the bromine salt generator, so long as you start out with good clean water you're good ... just need to take your time to dial it in properly - takes a few days of patience - you want to avoid over-correction.

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That is true for any system. Nobody likes a ph war.

I have never run into a bromine generator here in the US. I don't know if they are legal here or not. I can find the products for sale online, but no real information.

I too am not a gecko fan, but I don't have a choice. If it's a spa, I gotta fix it. Actually, if it pumps water or makes steam, I gotta fix it. Sometimes some other things, too...

I am happy that you are happy with your bromine generator. I hope you have many years of trouble-free use.

 

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