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AlicattP

New to hot tub ownership - AMC-2210

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Hi everyone, my son got a used hot tub/spa and has passed it on to me just before xmas as he could not get it to work :)  I don't know anything about them but I have found out the make is Winer and the model is AMC-2210, it is a 5 +1 and someone has butchered the wiring to the heater/ circulation pump, easy enough fix with a new heater as the old Rooster heater was U/S anyway.

Just now it is a bit on the cold side to contemplate filling it and seeing if it works, it has been -8c for a while now, and inspecting the pipes they all look ok, tho some have about 1/8" of ice in the bottom of them.

Does anyone have any info on the AMC-2210 or advice on restoring the spa to full working order? I know it will have to be cleaned out thoroughly and sanitised as a start.

Alistair. 

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Does this look like your spa:    https://winer.en.alibaba.com/product/731991013-213106527/Outdoor_whirlpool_spa_hottub_AMC_2210.html

It appears to have a balboa controller, which is very common and you should be able to find parts and manuals on-line.

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Yep that's the one, the last picture at the bottom but in white, the controller looks the same as that, yellow 15 button and as I believe now obsolete. 

I have managed to get the programming guide for that controller, and a tub user guide for a newer version of the tub, there are differences but I'm getting there. 

I have cleaned out the tub and filled it, found the chlorine feeder was leaking, new O-ring should fix that, controller buttons work, but the display is not. The blower works, pumps 1 and 2 work but pump 3 is rattly and needs bearings/seals and maybe a new impeller, again not a difficult or expensive fix.

The wiring was chopped for the heater to try and bypass the pressure sensor in the Rooster 3kW heater, I shorted the sensor out and yes the heater works but with the pump not being 100% I am looking for a replacement sensor, I think I have found one that will fit and is within the right pressure range. 

Now, I can get a new topside panel but it is more than half the cost of a complete new controller system, so weighing up my options whether to get a new topside or a new system that is compatible and would give me more options like radio/CD, it has a built in FM tuner already tho my son said it did not work, the country is switching over to DAB so a new panel with a CD/MP3 player input might be the way to go.

Lastly once the work has been done I want to pack more insulation in, any recommendations on what and how?  

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1)   If you get a new controller, get a kit with a new spaside, heater and controller.  It doesn't have to be a balboa controller, it just needs to be able to handle your electric power, 3 pumps and your blower.  The Gecko ye.5 is relatively inexpensive, although it's bigger than the gecko pack you'd be replacing.

2)  I always recommend against getting an audio system in your hot tub.  They are very problematical, subject to early and expensive breakdowns, and for the most part the manufacturers just use automobile stereos.  Many hot tub companies are going to speaker systems with bluetooth docks, which have fewer parts to go bad.  Just pair your smart phone and you're set to go.  Your pack does not need to have a specific  A/V connector, just a spare power and neutral, which the Balboa pack has in ample numbers.

3) For insulation, many manufacturers are going with 3/4" sheets of styrofoam, which you can get at home centers, at least in the USA.  Another way to insulate is fiberglass insulation like you'd use in your attic, only stuff it into plastic trash bags, tape it up good to keep out water, and pack it into the open space in the tub cabinet.  Don't use that pumped in expanding insulation.  When you need to service the tub, you'll curse yourself.

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Thanks, was thinking along those lines myself, I do have an outside stereo on the patio driven from the surround sound in the sun lounge, so it is not 100% necessary to have it in the tub as well, just that there are speakers fitted and it did have a radio when new.

Just so happens I do have a bale of Rockwool insulation left over from making my home cinema, packing it in plastic bags and stuffing it in the spa sounds like a good idea to use it up.

Styrofoam is available here in loose granules and in sheets, I was going to place the foil backed styrofoam on the inside of the cabinet and then stuff the rockwool to fill the voids around the tub while still leaving ventilation for the pumps etc.

Looking on a local supplier's website, the Gecko is a whole order dearer than it is in the US/Canada, just the control panel YE.5 is €1090, compared with $525 for a complete retrofit bundle including topside controls in the US. Ouch!

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Most tubs do not drain the plumbing completely. I would hesitate to experiment while freezing temperatures are possible.

On mine the heater didn't drain completely and the water froze and expanded and broke the heater. Costly mistake.

Better luck to you.

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yeah, there was about 1/8" of ice on the bottom of the heater when I first took it off, I only started working on it as we were forecast more than a week of warmish weather - it might even get up to +13c  here ... that is almost summer weather for where I come from in Scotland :lol:

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Before you put a lot of money into it, you might try filling it and seeing if it holds water.   If there's ice in the heater, there may have been ice in plumbing, especially since the plumbing is a good 12" lower in the tub than the heater.  If there was ice in plumbing, there's a possibility pipes cracked.

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I'm literally just back in from using a submersible pump to drain the tub, there is one leak, the cap on the Hayward Chlorine feeder has a crack which has been repaired but is still leaking, I have sourced a supplier for the cap, a new O-ring for it would not go amiss either. After isolating the feeder, the level has not gone down at all over a period of 4 days, so I think all is good, I had stuck a bit of tape on the edge of the waterline and it was still on it this morning when I went to drain the tub.

The heater is in a position where it will drain completely, the ice in it was no more than I expected, I'm more worried about the pump that is below the heater, it is noisy and rattles a bit when running, I think either the bearings or the impeller may be shot, it was the reason I was draining the tub is to take the pump off and access what is needed.

I don't mind spending a few hundred on it to get it up and running, that is why I'm checking everything out before I sink any hard earned cash into it, being retired and on a fixed income now, I do have to watch where the pennies go ;)

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Sounds like you're okay leak-wise, if pipes were cracked you would have lost water in 4 days.

Just for the future, when you drain the tub with a pump, there is still water in the pipes.  We use a compressor to blow out the lines when winterizing a hot tub and get anywhere from 5 - 10 gallons (20-40 litres) of water out, after the tub is drained.  That's what can freeze up.

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Filled and fired up the tub this morning after returning from Scotland she is now sitting at 36°c and rising, the water is from a well and was at 5°c when I started so I think the heater is working! 

I replaced the bearings in the circulation pump and it now starts and stops fine tho is still a little noisy, the motor is really on it's last legs the housing for the bearings are a bit loose and I had to use some loctite to secure them. 

I have started scraping the old varnish off the sides of the tub and my wife is going to oil it when I'm finished.

Tonight is the night to try it out, clear blue skies and a big moon out :)

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The tub had reached 40c by the time we went in it tonight, the wife was still unsure on it and was very ambivalent about going in, after an hour and a half it was difficult to get her out, she is a convert :) 

My circuit is fused and wired to handle 20A @ 220V and the circulation pump + heater draw 18A so I could not have the heater on with all 3 pumps running therefor the heater was off while we were in and the temperature dropped to 36°c after the hour and a half. 

I found one jet is not working, it is in the bottom of the well in the middle of the tub and is one of two there, the other one is working fine I guess I will have to get it out and see what is wrong, but all in all it has been a very pleasant experience and we are both looking forward to relaxing in the tub tomorrow evening.   

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Lots of jets are held in by plastic tabs.  The tabs get brittle from chlorine and break off and the jets pop out.  Look on them for part numbers. You can sometimes get part numbers off the back of the jet housing, inside the tub cabinet.

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Ah no, the jet is still in the housing just no water coming out of it, it is one of the jets for the feet and is mounted in the wall of the foot well, It's going to be fun getting it out and finding where the blockage is.

The jets are old and I do know the supplier but they are now obsolete and discontinued, they are part of the CMP Classic Poly Jets range and I do have the part numbers for them, this is the one that is blocked:

4inchJet.jpg

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This might sound like a stupid question, sorry.  You do know that many jets can be individually turned on and off by twisting the outer ring on the jet either clockwise or counterclockwise.

Virtually all jets have two parts - the housing the is mounted in the tub and the jet body (aka internals) which either screws or twists in.   You can easily replace the internals with another CMP 4" poly jet.  It won't look the same, but you'll never notice.

As far as the blockage, I'd look for kinked hoses in the tub.  Start at the back of the jet and follow the hose to whereever it connects to the main piping.  A hose may have been bent when the tub was first manufactured and is now clogged with debris or water deposits. 

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It does twist freely between both limits, and the whole jet assembly is in 3 parts, the housing, the internal valve and the external ring with jet nozzle which you can twist to turn it on and off, I do have the proper tool to remove the jets and internals now, some I have cleaned out but the two in the foot well I could not reach properly to remove them, it's on my task list for tomorrow :) 

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Followed the piping from jet back to... the Hayward chlorine feeder, turning on the stop cocks on it allowed the water to flow through the other foot jet in the foot well, it works with pump 2 which feeds the 3 higher seats.

 

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Well the control panel now works - after a fashion - I used some switch cleaner on the contacts of the plug for the topside controller and low and behold it works, with the light at the right angle you can read it, looks like the back light is U/S and I cannot see a separate bulb/LED to light it up.

The radio and CD/audio inputs also work, and on Sunday we were sitting relaxing in the sun listening to music while in the tub. Also have found a date on the PCB and it says 30/11/2005 so now at least I have a date round about when it was made.

There are two stuck relays on the relay board, I have ordered up 5 new ones to replace all those on the board, at $2 per relay laying out $10 for a full set is no hardship. :) the relays are sealed units so no opening them up and cleaning them.

Cleaning relays in a Mk12 Decca Navigator was the very first job I got as an trainee Radar Technician :) 

 

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Hi, sorry for asking on such an old thread but as a newbie amc-2210 owner. How did you connect the new heater? There is a wire to the flow pressure switch that is not needed on the newer Lx heater. Do you loop the wires and fool the system that way, or do i have to use an lx heater with external cable for the flow pressure switch managment?  The way it is setup now the heater starts when you put the power on even when there is no water.   

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Never needed the new heater, it is sitting in it's box still. I made up a selection of 1 1/2" pipes and bends that takes the new heater parallel with the side and then back to the tub plumbing to the jets but I never fitted it as I got the original heater to run once I figured out what the last person had done to it. The relay on the motherboard had failed and replacing that got the heater to work, I replaced all the relays at the same time, cost me about $10 for the lot and I have spares left over too.

The wiring had been butchered, the owner before my son got it had put in a contactor to switch on and off the heater manually and it was not controlled by the topside panel, he had cut off the plug to the motherboard and now the heater cable is too short to be soldered back into the plug, he took a feed off the motor of the circulation pump to pull in the contactor and he was using the second isolation switch on the power board to switch on and off the heater  so no control other than the thermal cutouts which pop at 43c 

this is how it was wired when it was delivered to me, yes that thin cable was what they were using to power it!

KGRxKnp.jpg

I have 3phase 380V available to wire it in properly but before I do anything else we have to wait for the neighbour to finish his building and we both put in a diving boundary wall and I will move the tub about 60ft closer to the house. So I never had to figure out how to rewire the LX heater to work with my electrics.

 

The topside panel is now completely U/S and I will have to replace it and / or the full controller, it did not survive this last winter :(

But it still runs and I have been enjoying it

 

https://imgur.com/qwqrWyS.jpg

 

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That is actually great news. Could you be so kind as to share a photo of the motherboard? The last owner had tried to retrofit the new lx heater and failed. Now i do not know what is correct and what is wrong. I can not find the manual/wiring diagram for this system anywhere. It has a whiter sticker with the letters KL8-2-WB111. 

IMG_9349.JPG.aea026b7547b533ede5045d9011ec310.JPG

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The heater is the only one connected to the COM port, the rest are all inserted into the ON port. As you can se the previous owner spliced two different color cables. The red one is from the heater. 

1493328998_IMG_935222096.jpg.0f9a5a58a72da3e2d21f7778fe14d2d7.jpg

 

 

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Not seen that label on mine, 

teY4ulg.jpg

I will go out and take a better pic of it tomorrow, it's a bit late and dark here plus I'll have to pull the insulation (rockwool in bin liners) from around it. p.s. putting the extra insulation around the tub and lining the insides of the walls with heat reflecting insulation really made a big difference to the heating of the tub, the heat from the circulation pump can get the tub up to 30c without using the heater :)

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7 minutes ago, Wildnose said:

The heater is the only one connected to the COM port, the rest are all inserted into the ON port. As you can se the previous owner spliced two different color cables. The red one is from the heater. 

connected to the common then it will be getting power all the time the tub is turned on 

 

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 Thank you so much. Now i know what the problem is. Cause the thing almost catched fire because of this😨  As i said, the previous owner had no idea what he was doing, and neither do i since i have no wiring diagram. 

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