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Hot Tub Green Water Color Issue After Clean Fill - Help! Ahh-Some Convert!


Orion6192

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Okay - long story, will try bullet points to get my point across. Looking for some direction and I always re-find my way here :)

I have a Jacuzzi J345 tub that is 4 years old this October.

I use the dichlor / bleach method.

I do a clean and fill twice a year - Spring after it warms up and Fall right before it stays below 40.

I always use SeaKlear Spa Flush, dump the tub, refill - add dichlor to 20ppm, dump again, refill and balance.

I always use ProTeam Gentle Spa to add 50ppm of Borates at the end and re-balance again.

The tub, since my last clean fill in April or May has only been used 2-3 times total. We keep up on the chemicals and check the levels every three days. Over the last two months, the water has had a musty smell that "sticks" to your skin if you dip your arm in taking a water sample. It has gone to a FC of 0 for a day or two at most maybe two or three times - but with nobody using the tub at all. The lid is not hardly opened at all except to check the water.

Here was my plan that has cause me a minor stroke:

i emptied the tub on Monday (9/5) and did not use any SeaKlear. My intention was to just refill and re-balance and change the filter to get rid of the smell. When I started to refill the tub by the sticking the hose into left filter hole with the grid, yellow colored water came out of the port for 10-15 seconds in to the bottom of the tub after a few seconds of the water running - not solid, but murky, like a chicken soup color yellow. The bottom of the tub water was noticeably yellow colored after it filled for a bit. I stopped the fill - dropped the pump back in and pumped it out. I then decided to fill the tub all the way up, didn't see anymore yellow, and added SeaKlear Spa Flush. Brown / Black / Dark Red scum lines around the tub immediately. Kept wiping them off with a paper towel so I didn't put it back into the water and it would come back. I ran high jets with air on. When it dried slightly around the tub it was a black / dark brown sludge - reminded me of tar. I let the tub set all night and ran it a few time here and there before bed. Went to work Tuesday and let the tub set - it cycles every 6 or 8 hours and was planning on emptying it Tuesday night.

A family emergency came up and I could not empty it that night. I had my wife check it and no scum line, but the water was cloudy blue from the SeaKlear and if you reach your hand into the tub, below the water line, the was a film on the inside of the tub on everything. Not like sandpaper, but rough. It wiped off with minimal elbow grease - but was on everything below the water line.

So it sat until Wednesday night where I could flush and wipe it down to remove the film. I added some more SeaKlear prior to dumping it and and some bleach - no effect on the film - so i used a microfiber towel and wiped away. Started to refill the tub and after about 5 inches of water in the bottom of the tub, my water has a noticeable green tint. I pump it out - do it again - about 3 times. Finally let it fill up all way and still has a green hue to it. Added 5 oz of 8.5% bleach to it and cycled it - nothing. PH was at 7.0 so i added PH + and took it to 7.8. Still green. Added 8 oz of SeaKlear and brown / red scum started to appear in the foam. My wife commented that it looked like someone threw up in the tub and it was just floating there. So I cycled it two times, added about 100ppm of bleach and cycled it for 30 minutes and the drained it. Refilled it and you can see little specks of red and black settled on the seats an bottom of the tub - could not get a good read on if it was still tinted green. With the outside lights on and the tubs lights on - it did appear to, so I will look tonight. I also add 10ppm dichlor to the tub and cycled it and left it for the night.

My plan, if the water is clear, was to dump it one more time, do a clean fill and balance.

My minor stroke is, what happened? Am I safe to use the tub? If the water isn't clear - what is going on? I'm an engineer and I keep records everytime I open the tub and what was added, etc. The FC to 0 a couple of times was due to business trips and burning through the bleach faster, My CYA was also about 60 a couple of months ago which will hurt my longevity of the bleach - but can I get a helping hand please?

Any and all help is appreciated - and needed! I'm afraid I ruined my tub -

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So I got home tonight and water is tinted a Lima bean green color.  Ph was 7.5 and TA was 240.  FC was 9.8 so maybe my teaspoon measurement or left over super chlorinated water kept it up there.  I have not put in clean filters yet so I am running without filters - didn't know if it would contaminate them. The other set I took out is soaking in cascade and hot water (1 cup to 5 gallons). 

I had some dark red sedimate at the bottom of the tub - but not a lot. 

 

I decided to do the decontamination portion of lowering TA to 80 and PH to 7.2 and then shocking to 50ppm with bleach. I'll do that and then refill and chlorinate to 10 ppm and let it sit overnight.

There is still a brown scum line not as bad  but there.

Any input would help!  Thanks. 

***Edit - had to stop. Storm moved in and I left the tub at TA 110 and PH 7.8 and FC 9.8. Will continue more tomorrow night ***

Should I put in the filters?  I didn't want to contaminate them. 

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I replied to your email, to your post on my blog, and to your thread on TFP.  Bottom line is that if I were in your situation I would purge with Ahh-some repeatedly (no need to heat or balance) until you get a clean spa.  fill-dose-drain-repeat until you get no more release (on my spa it took two purges).   You can throw the filters into the dosed vessel as the label directions indicate, but  In  your situation I think I would leave the filters out -- clean them in a separate solution of Ahh-some mixed with your favorite de-greaser.   If you want to get extra *** like I did -- after you achieve a clean spa (no more release while dosed with ahh-some) THEN put your CLEANED filters into their normal positions and fire up the jets.  wipe up anything that may accumulate on the vessel walls. if you've cleaned them well this step will not produce anything remarkable. 

When you achieve a clean spa releasing no knew material, with filters installed and dosed with ahh-some, you can smile because this is not a trivial amount of effort. 

I'm not an expert in metals contamination but suggest you could have had a transient condition in your fill water or even copper erosion from your heating elements, along with whatever unknown bad guys growing in your water.    I put one of those cheap sediment filters (with the rope wound filter elements you get at home depot) and that traps the sometimes transient iron content if my city water happens to be mucking with one or more of their wells. 

 

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Follow up - still stumped:

9/10 @ 1:00 pm:  Did my first flush with Ahh-Some and got some brown gunk in the foam and along the water line. Drained, wiped refilled. A lighter shade of green this time - more of a mint green. Took a water sample and hour away to be tested and TA 200 and PH7.6 and iron .2. No other metals showed up. 

I'll be doing another flush of course - but the green hue has me and the spa stumped. They said I may still have something in my lines that could be causing it - but nothing showed up on the test.

Have I tried a metal sesqurent?

No... I don't have access to any unless Lowes or Walmart may have something. I did another Ahh-Some purge (9:00pm)'and got more brown gunk, but not like last time. Did a refill an hour ago right after and still mint green water. I'll do one more purge tomorrow to see if I get anymore brown stuff. I bought a hose attached filter to use that is supposed to filter out metals and other stuff. That'll be my next step - getting frustrated. The green just won't go away. .2 isn't high for iron. Nothing else showed up.

9/11: This morning I have a scum ring around the tub again after sitting with a clean fill and half a cup of bleach. The water is green / brown. Completely clear - but almost a light tea color but more on the green side. Another purge being that I am still getting stuff.

 

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I hate to see a thread go dark with no conclusion because it doesn't help anyone looking for similar answers to their problems.  So I will update where I am in this journey - who would have thought it would have been this difficult!

I'm going to jump to 9/13 because all the above info leads into this.

So at this point, I have been working on this tub since 9/5 - Labor Day - 9 days.  SeaKlear flush until clean and then the green yellow water started.  So 9/13 - I had been using Ahh-Some purge after purge and on this day I was at purge #6.  Add it to the tub, run with all jets and air, 5ppm of bleach added, wipe off scum line after foam settles, and skim off the floating scum, drop in my pump and drain and rinse / wipe the tub. This time I only got a little brown deposit in the foam that showed up as a tan swirl.  I felt I was good to go and refilled the tub and it filled up what appeared to clear water finally - no tint.  Set the temp to 101F added dichlor 10ppm and let it sit over night and wanted to check it in the AM to make sure it was going to stay clear - no color.  9/14 - Next morning, clear water finally!  Reach in the tub and my walls were like sandpaper - and it didn't want to wipe off very easily with a microfiber.  Never had this issue.  My CH is high 320 and my TA is 220.  I have never use a scale or stain inhibitor - never had this issue.  So I let the tub while I was at work and it had gotten more build up - not visible, but tactile.  So I balanced my tub and thought if it sat over night it would loosen or dissolve the build-up.  Oh the ignorance.  I also remembered that I had a brown swirl during the last Ahh-Some purge so I made the choice to take my crystal clear balanced water and do one more Ahh-Some purge and then dump it.  While I was dumping it I did a 50/50 of white vinegar and water and washed the walls - worked amazing - no scale on the tub walls anymore.  In the pipes, heater, etc. - probably.  So that made purge #7 - and I got some more gunk out and wiped, rinsed and refilled - to yellow green water!  I added some dry acid at this point to drop the TA a little and left them temp at 65 and went to bed.  Next morning green yellow water still so I added another dose of Ahh-Some and let it run and then soak all day while I was at work and drove an hour to get some Scale and Stain inhibitor.

9/15 - Got home from work, a significant amount of brown stuff - but not out of control or unsuspecting.  Frustrated beyond all recognition at his point - not because the tub had more brown gunk, but it seemed like I wasn't gaining either.  The SeaKlear didn't produce any more brown after the first two flushes.  I had been communicating with Doug over email (dlleno) and he kept me directed toward the repeated purging - which without his pushing me I'm not sure I would have kept it up this long, so thanks!  But having and engineering background I called Unique Solutions (makers of Ahh-Some) and nobody answered... but guess what - caller ID and Jerry called me back without leaving a message.  Ahh-Some is his product.  I spoke with him for over 20 minutes and explained everything to him from soup to nuts about what I had been doing and he told me to stop.

Stop?  My water is clear, but tinted green.  Jerry said I have probably gotten near the end of the what I could clean with over 4 years of build-up and using SeaKlear, which he acknowledged was a good product.  He believes his product cleans deeper.  My issues are that he says I am wasting product by doing flush after flush at this point.  He said to leave the tub filled with the clear green tinted water.  Take 2oz of Ahh-Some and dilute it in 128oz (1 gallon) of water and make sure its fully dissolved.  Balance the tub, add dicholor if that is what i am using, I also added scale and stain inhibitor as I filled the tub - first time ever, and he said in the morning your tub will be clear with no color and it is considered a "maintenance dose".  He wanted me to do this "maintenance dose" every seven days for the next 4-6 weeks before my winter dump and rinse and get ready.  So I installed my filter, balanced my water as close as I could get last night (about 95% - still need to add the borates and readjust) and went to bed.  

Jerry - who I found out is chemist, said this maintenance dose will slowly release biofilm trapped in the lines and the dicholor and Ahh-Some will kill and collect it.  I may see a few brown particles and maybe a scum line, just wipe it off and keep using the tub.  This will allow for anything that is deeply rooted in the tub to get some use and get flushed out, but still allow us to use the tub as well.

9/16 - This morning - crystal clear water - nice normal light blue tint - nothing on the walls of the tub - no scum line - filter were even still white.  I will re-test the numbers tonight and see where it goes.  

The only place I found to buy Ahh-Some was Amazon and it's a little pricey (29.99 2oz or 49.99 6oz) but I concur with dlleno blog / trial that it does work better than the SeaKlear.  Jerry is a great guy to talk to and was very knowledgeable about the product. After digging out of this initial hole I had gotten myself into, I shouldn't have to do as many purges as I did this time.

Amazon 2oz: https://www.amazon.com/Ahh-Some-Jetted-Bath-Plumbing-Cleaner/dp/B0030MYGXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035309&sr=8-1&keywords=ahh-some
Amazon 4oz: https://www.amazon.com/Ahh-Some-Jetted-Bath-Plumbing-Cleaner/dp/B0030L05GA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035309&sr=8-2&keywords=ahh-some
Unique Solutions: http://ahh-some.com/

So I will be using the dichlor / bleach method as usual and will dump the tub at the end of October and re-fill before winter.

Appreciate what help I had gotten!

Thanks -

Scott - Wayland, NY

 

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Nice info and summary.   Its all making sense now ...I didn't realize you were only waiting 30 min between purges but yes I'm glad you stopped that routine and switched to the maintenance dose.   I did that on my own spa and you were just arriving at that Pont!   Turns out the low dose is a great clarifier.  I was reluctant to do it but I'm convinced now. Some observations 

 

Seaklear doesn'hold a candle to ahhsome .  Your experience with 4 years using it shows that.   My experience does as well.  

As long as I get a release I keep purging but I let the dose sit over night.  I'm glad you got some advise straight from the source that's so cool.  I'm going to remember next time it's OK to quit earlier and switch to maintainable dose. 

 

Keep watching your filters!  Only thing i would add here is to suggest you purge every drain and,see what you get. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is great information and corroborates my own findings that Ahh-Some is superior to Seaklear.  What I wish to point out is that your spa is 4 years old (I think you said), and that you regularly purged with SeaKlear.  Thats a lot of purges.  it means to me that yucko's have been accumulating in your spa in spite of the SeaKlear purges and it took several Ahh-Some purges to get things right again.  This is exactly what i found in my experiment -- only yours is just more conclusive:  SeaKlear leaves stuff behind that Ahh-Some gets.  i will note that in my experiment I purged twice with SeaKlear just to make sure that I gave this product all possible chances to work.  The 2nd SeaKlear purge released nothing, but left quite a bit of stuff behind that Ahh-some released.  

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