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pdelahaye

Limelight Pulse - Led's Not Working

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Hi Everyone,

Had the tub about 5 years now, and over this time, (after the initial 2 year warranty on the LED's) some of them started playing up, certain colours not working, or some of them just not working at all.

I've put up with it as there were many LED's still working, and I found in general Blue lighting, generally worked, some colours you would set, and 1 LED would be a wrong colour,

it got to the point about 7 or 8 of them were not correct, but at the time, I did not realise they were front accessable,

anyway, another year goes by, and they stopped working, at first, all the spa LED's stopped, but the corner ones around the speaker holes, kind of worked, but not 100%. now they have stopped as well.

I notice on the panel, when you push the light button, the Light symbol comes on, however the Light menu and the colour menu do not display, I've checked the Power supply for the lights with a multimeter, we have 240 v AC coming into the power supply, and we have 5v DC coming out the other side so I'm assuming the power supply is good.

I therefore assumed it could be the point of light controller which was faulty, so purchased one of these, swapped it out and it's still not working.

I purchase 8 new LED's (at great expense in the UK), but I can only remember the position in the tub of 2 of the 7 or 8 LED's which were not working correctly as it's been so long since they all worked. 1 of those I replaced, had corrosion on the plug at the back of the light, so obviously the seal had failed, but the question is if some of the other lights have leaked, could this have shorted out the circuit and be preventing any of the lights from coming on? Maybe I need to remove each light looking for corrosion?

Next question, is there any way to test these LED's one by one when I remove them? My mind does not quite know how they work, they obviously have a 5v DC positive and negative input? but how on earth do they know which colour to turn? Could I simply take them out and connect them to a power source to test them?

Alternatively can I power up the spa, to test the lights without damaging the heater if there is no water in it? I can pull the circulation pump fuse, to prevent that running dry, but I don't think I can stop the heater working when there is no water in the tub, or will the "no fault" heater cut out if it detects there is no water. I guess it has a thermal cut out.

sorry for all the questions, I know these lights have been an ongoing issue on the early models. I can't fathom why the control panel does not show the light menu when the lights are switched on.

Thanks for you help in advance

Paul

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It means there's moisture inside one or more of the led's. There is a constant mini-voltage signal present (even when off) that has migrated via the moisture, and can make the lights do all sorts of nutty things. The moisture can overt-tax the transformer as well, leading it to fail.

All LED's should be replaced, as well as any damaged LED housings. Sometimes it's a simple job, sometimes it takes hours, if several housings also need replacement. The LED's are about 10 or 12 dollars each in the US, the complete LED and housing is around 15, the transformer is roughly 35-40, as is a new controller. I don't beleive the led's are 5vdc. That's just the voltage from the transformer into the controller.

There is no way to test the lights, as a single damaged LED housing can make them ALL not work. You must remove each and every LED, dry, and inspect each housing for damage. If the LED breaks into several peices trying to remove it, that's a good sign the housing has corroded and is damaged.

It helps top have all the parts on hand as you attempt to repair. The lights are gorgeous. But next time even one fails, fix it immediately, as letting it sit will ultimately make it much more difficult to repair.

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I have the same problem. However I am only getting 110v into the power supply. I have replaced all the bulbs and the controller. I get the 4 speaker cap lights and waterfall in blue but that is it. Light menu does not even show up on the control panel. If anyone has any information I would appreciate it!

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So if you are only getting 110v into the lighting power supply for your tub, this might be right if your tub is a US model, or in a market where your voltage is only 110v.

I get 240v but then I'm in the UK, and this is our standard voltage.  

I'm sure all issues with these lights result in a short circuit as someone else suggested, caused by moisture in the light fittings, in my tub I know there is at least 6 lights which were not working properly.  And even today, I have just 1 light which glows a dim red colour, regardless of whether the lights are on or off!

I have a plan on how I'm going to try and diagnose.  Here is what I plan to do, however it's not going to be easy.  From what I can see, there is a power circuit within the shell of the hot tub, where the 40 odd lights tap into the circuit.  Like you, the light menu no longer appears on my hot tub screen.  However when I removed all the lights inside the tub from their fittings, (except the waterfall, and speaker lights) the menu reappeared.

So what I plan to do is as follows, whether this will work, I don't know.......

  • I'm going to remove the 4 side panels of the cabinet
  • I'm going to switch the tub into summer time mode.  This shuts off the heater or 8 hours only
  • I'm going to remove the fuse from the bottom of the control module, to stop the circulation pump from running
  • I'm then going to drain the tub, with the power still on
  • Then I will disconnect each of the individual lights from the main lighting circuit within the tub.  (from what I can see each one taps into the circuit with a small grey connector)

If you drain the tub before switching to summer time mode, you cannot power up the hot tub, without the heater thermal cutout tripping, and then you cannot turn on the lights.

I will then turn on the lights on the tub, hopefully the lighting menu will appear when you switch on the lights, then I will reconnect each light, one by one, in the hope I can find which light is causing the circuit to short circuit and cut out all the lights.  This light and maybe the fitting as well will be replaced.

I've no idea if this will work, but in my mind, this is the best way to prevent the heater or circulation pump from burning out or tripping the thermal cutout without any water in the tub.  

 

When the weather improves and I get some time, I will report back how I get on.  To be honest, I would have complained under warranty, if I'd realised at the time how bad this issue is and how it affected all early model tubs.  It really should have been a recall, or at least an offer of free lights when they failed.  But I just assumed a couple of the lights were faulty, not realising it would render them all useless in the future.

Paul

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Hi LakeBumKyle

I've had the front of my hot tub today to sort a blocked ozone injector, and I took the time to look at the lights in a bit more detail.

Forst of all to prove that it is a fault with one of the lights, causing a short.  I have the same issue, it started that only my corners and waterfall worked, and then none of them work.  The light menu is also missing from the control panel.  

First of all, if you disconnect the connector between the white cable from the RAIO LED controller and the red/black cables which run abour the perimeter of the hot tub.  Now when you turn on the lights, and access the menu, the lite/color menu should now appear.  This shows that it is one or more of your LED's which has moisture in it, causing a short.  

Then what I plan to do, is remove all 4 sides as I described earlier, and then disconnect each of the RAIO LED's from the lighting circuit.  They have clever little connectors which cut into the red and black wires, once they are all disconnected, in theory you have elimated the fault.  Then you can turn on the lights, and one by one reconnect them until you hopefully find out which one is the culprit.  When you find it, you will need to change out the light housing/LED.

 

There is a couple of pictures here of the white connector to disconnect first of all to prove you have a short, and then also some pictures of the grey connectors to disconnect the individual lights.  

   https://www.flickr.com/photos/154798729@N08/shares/2EMBh6

 

This is how I plan to fix my tub.  I just need to order some new light housings.

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I like your plan of putting the tub in summer mode and pulling all of the lights. On my next water chance I will defiantly have to give it a shot.  I can't get to all of the snap in connectors since they are all inside of the foam with the exception of the ones that connect inside the front panel. Currently when I turn on my lights I get the 4 corner lights and the waterfall light in blue. Sometimes I get 8 or 9 random lights inside of the tub that will light up blue but pretty dim. Sometimes I can get in to the menu to change the colors but as soon as it hits the color red the menu will become unresponsive and you can not even turn the lights off at the control panel. I have to shut off the main breaker and restart the tub to get them to turn off. I bought my tub used with the knowledge that the lights did not work but it is still frustrating that there is no easy fix and no diagnostic info out there. Keep me posted on your progress and thanks for the reply!

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Will do, I've ordered a couple more of the replacement light lenses today plus 6 of the holders.  

I've so far only removed the front panel, I'm kind of hoping the lights which are connected behind the back panel are equally nicely installed!  we will see.  I definately think some of the foam will need to be cut awat to access the fittings.  I've so far found 3 cracked lights when I removed them last year, so I know the fittings had water in them as the back plug on the LED when removed were rusty, they have to be changed.

Speak soon

Paul

 

 

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New to the forum but not new to the dreaded light problem.  I have a limelight glow and my lights started acting up within the first year of ownership.  Dealer came out and replaced a few lights.  Then as everybody described a few started being out of sync then a few quit working and now they are all out.  I tried replacing all the led lights but that didn’t work.  Like you guys I also have lost the lite settings in the menu.  The dealership wants nothing to do with this repair.  I have called them and their canned answer is plan on spending a $1000 to get them working.  I’m sure we can figure this out cheaper than that.  Have you guys had any success getting them going again?

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I am about to do a water change in the next few weeks and I will mess with it again. I'm not sure it is even worth it anymore. Two of the bulbs that I have replaced with brand new ones have already broken. The lenses have broken off and ended up in the bottom of the tub and the price of the bulbs just went up to $10.37 ea. I didn't buy my tub new and I got a good deal on it because of the fact that the lights didn't work so I cant be too upset. However, I consider myself pretty handy and it is very frustrating that I can not get them fixed. If the dealers don't want to mess with them they should at least release some diagrams or diagnostic info.

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New used 2008 Limelight spa owner with the same issue, NO LIGHTS. One light had the face broken off and another had water inside. That's the 2 we could see clearly had issues.  We just got a quote to rewire the whole thing, $2200. I don't think they really want to do it based on that number.  So I'd be interested to hear how anyone else's troubleshooting efforts go. And please include photos or videos if you can. I'm pretty competent on troubleshooting electric circuits, but pretty sure this is not a simple Christmas light setup. From the descriptions of the issues folks have described it sounds like the circuit fails if it senses a short or fault on the line. Which makes sense, to prevent electric shock conditions. Isolating each of the lights to find the faulty ones could take quite a bit of time. So maybe just rewiring the whole thing is the quicker option.  And given what folks say about how long the lights last, it might be proactive to just replace them all anyways.  I'd also be interested in knowing how folks replace the light sockets.  The bulbs look easy enough from the front, it's the sockets that might be tough to get out and back in water tight. 

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The biggest issue in getting to the sockets and the wiring is the foam. The side and back compartments are completely foam filled. I drained my tub today and found 4 bulbs that were questionable and two that were broken. I'm going to do a good socket inspection with a flashlight before I replace the bulbs and fill it back up. You might check your power supply output for 5vdc. I have read If there is moisture in the bulbs for too long it can burn up the power supply.

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The power supply looks to be producing 5vDC OK. It was the controller that was questionable. It was putting out some voltage when the load was removed (disconnected from light wiring) but fluctuated when connected to rest of the circuit.  Even with all the front and back lights disconnected it still would not produce enough to get any of the remaining lights to come on.   

The quote we got to have the whole thing rewired included all new lights & sockets including the waterfall light and corner lights; new controller; and re-foam back and sides. Tech indicated that they have to remove most of the foam to get at all the lights so it's just easier to re-foam rather than try to pull it out neatly enough to put back.

From what I can tell it's a parallel circuit as opposed to series like Christmas lights. Basically there is the black and red wires which are the power bus and the individual lights have the little gray connectors that tap off of that.  you can open up those connectors and disconnect individual lights. What I was thinking of doing was to cut the red & black wires at the corners to be able to isolate each side of the spa.  Then start by hooking up only the first 4 or 5 lights on the front (nearest the controller). To see if I could get any lights to light. If lucky then it would be a matter of just adding more lights until circuit failed and then isolate that area.   

Still a lot of work no matter how you cut it.

 

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Let me know how it goes. There is not much info out there so its good to talk to someone with the same problem. I am waiting on 6 new bulb and socket sets to come in.  I have a few sockets that look a little corroded so I will replace them too, they should be pretty easy to get to. It would be a lot easier if you could work on them with no water in the tub. I thought about bypassing the circ pump and heater to pull fresh water from a bucket (with a water hose keeping it full) and then just discharge in the yard. This could keep the controls working and keep the pump and heater from burning up so I add one bulb at a time. The other thing I think about is longevity. IF I do get them working, how long will they stay working? As prone to problems as these things are will they just stop working again soon.  I agree they are parallel but what makes the colors change? Christmas lights are just power on, light comes on. Power off, light goes off. What does the controller manipulate to get the smooth color changes? 

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Today I was able to bypass the tub and run fresh water thru the circ pump into the heater and out into the grass. With the inside of the tub dry I was able to get in and work on the lights. I cut the red and black wire at the first corner to isolate the first 6 lights in the run. I unhooked all of them and started plugging them in one by one. I can get three to work together and cycle thru all colors. As I hooked up more lights they got wacky and out of sync and would randomly shut off. I was always told this was just a moisture problem. The tub has been empty for a week and the bulbs are good and dry so I know there is no moisture and I cant even get 6 to operate together. My next plan is to run a new piece of wire and stab the connectors on a fresh wire and see if it makes a difference. After that, I am out of ideas! Yall don't be shy post up some ideas or feedback!

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Sounds like the same approach I was thinking, except I was going to try it with the water in.  If you can't get more than 3 lights to operate together I'm wondering if it might be a controller issue. Hate to suggest it, but swapping for a new one would eliminate that as the source of the issue.  Also did you try different combination of lights?  Was it always the same 3 that worked or any 3? 

Another option might be to setup a test bed. If you have some extra wire and a couple of new/extra light sockets you could just connect them up and see how many you could get to work. Then plug and play with old bulbs to see if any of those exhibit problems. Kind of like troubleshooting the Christmas lights.  Start with a working string and test every bulb from the bad string one at a time. 

One other thought regarding the sockets.  Even though they may be dry now, if they ever had water in them it could have left a conductive or non-conductive residue that's causing the problem.  Corrosion is always a problem with spa chemicals.

FYI: I picked up some cheap battery operated lights for my spa at the suggestion of the spa tech. They don't look half bad under water,  but they want to float on the surface. I just need to get some suction cups for them.  If it's going to cost me $2k re-wire the spa I might be able to live with the cheap battery operated ones... plus they come with a remote. 

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It does seem like some sort of controller issue. However, I put in a new controller when I first started messing with the lights. The four that I was working with are the lights right under the control panel that have new sockets and new bulbs. I tried different bulbs and still got the same results. I tried the 4 again today and I can get 3 blue then when I start going thru the colors some go on and off and then go into a strobe like flicker and you have to unplug the controller to get back to blue. The last thing to replace is the power supply. It is putting out 5vdc but could be weak under load.

 

I looked up the company that made that setup. Rising dragon tech is the company. They still make a 2 wire bus setup but don't have the front access bulbs listed. Now they make them with a front access lens that has a single POL bulb that goes in from the back.

 

I have been digging thru spa building supply sites looking for some kind of single or double light setup that I can use. I found one made for swim spas but It just had the two puck lights and no lenses. Since the sites sell mostly to spa builders there is not much info listed for the kits. We have been using some floating lights from Academy too. They look cool but not as cool as having 32 underwater lights at the touch of a button.

 

 

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Anyone get anywhere on this?  My tub has an aftermarket light but I’m wondering if I could get that and at least the waterfall light to work?  Need to figure out how the PO got the aftermarket light to work and how the factory lighting was disconnected

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Wow glad to see I not the only one with this issue!!!

But having this issue with the lights has made the entire spa system shutdown and the main breaker keeps tripping.

i guessing this is the issue with the corrosion of the wires as some have mentioned in earlier statements but now how does one get this issue resolved so I can enjoy the spa again 

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Hi everyone, new to the forum but same issues. I got the tub from my brother and he has had issues with the lights since day one of getting it. Lights had been replaced as well as the control board. He eventually gave up on it and now it is my problem. Wasn't worried about having the lights working as I figured the cost didn't make sense and based on how long they lasted it would be a never ending issue. Now though I have another issue, I noticed water seeping from under the tub this summer. I didn't think much of it thought maybe just the rain or something. My curiosity got the best of me tonight though and I removed the back cover (opposite of the control panel cover) and found the foam was soaked with water.  I started digging into it to try and figure out where the water was coming from and I think I may have found the issue. The water seemed to be concentrated around one of the lights. I wiggled it a bit and the light broke right off in my hand. Turns out the light had shorted out so bad that it actually melted the housing. It was totally corroded and black like it had been scorched and burnt. I don't know if that's the only issue but I'm hoping it is and from how it looked it looks pretty bad. I will add some pictures when I take them. Right now I don't know what to do, I'm wondering if there is a way to seal the lights up without having to replace them all?  Let me know if anyone has experienced something similar. To me it looks very serious that it got so hot to melt the housing and am thinking to call Limelight and see what they have to say as this is clearly a defective design and from what I saw could have caused serious injury. 

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Quick update...I went ahead and replaced the power supply and light controller and that got my corner lights and waterfall working.  I then inspected the points of light closely and saw that the previous owner had taken the led out of the housing and sealed up the housing with silicon.  I guess this was where the bulbs were leaking and then shorting themselves out.  I went ahead and ordered 4 new bulbs/housings and replaced.  Pretty easy to do and they seem to be water tight so far.  All of my other bulbs are out of the housings so I don't need to worry about all on/all off.  The problem now is that the housings are on back order from Hotsprings.  I went ahead and finished my water change and I will replace the rest when they come back in stock.  The 4 I did do look great.  I am not sure how hard it will be to get the others out but my trick is to tie a string to the end of the wire as the housing exits through the front of the tub.  As long as the nut on the inside of the tub stays attached to the tub, I should not need to dig through foam to replace all of these.  Simply use the string to get the wire out to the permiter of the tub and then screw in the new housing.  Plug it onto the bus and all seems good to go!  4 down...26 more to go

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