gardenleisure21 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Hi, I have a hot tub that I hooked up about 2 months ago and has been working great. Now it has just started to snow here in Michigan and gotten colder. The breaker has started to trip after about 10 minutes of the jets being on. I will then reset the breaker, go turn the jets back on, and they will run for about 10 minutes and then the breaker will trip again. It does not trip when the jets are off (overnight) although one pump does turn on during the night for circulation. (The spa has 2 pumps). It is currently wired from the spa to a 50 amp GFCI box and then from the GFCI box to the main breaker panel where I have two- 30 amp breakers connected to it. It is only one of the 30 amp breakers that is tripping and is always the same one. (Never the GFCI breaker outside) Could you guys help me to try and decide the steps to take to find out the issue? The spa is a 220v dual pump spa with ozonator. It also did trip once about a month ago but has not happened since. It was warmer then as well. Not sure if temperature has anything to do with it. I also would like to add that I just changed the filter to a new filter approximately a week ago. The filter is the same size as the old one. The breaker first started tripping the first time I had the jets on after I installed the new filter. Maybe just a coincidence? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 What exactly do you mean by two 30amp breakers? If you're referring to 2 single pole breakers , 1 on each 120V line then you only have 30A @ 240V That's not enough to power 2 pumps + heater. It most likely worked because the heater was not on at the same time as the pumps. Now that it's cold outside, the tub loses enough heat in 10 mins to trip the thermostat which turns the heater on while the pumps are running. Your 50 amp GFCI is a 2 pole breaker (50A each pole) You need to replace the two 30A "single" pole breakers with a 50 or 60A "double" pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenleisure21 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Spanky, When I first got the tub, i installed one of the 30amp breakers on each side of the breaker panel and the pump wouldn't turn on. Then I found out it wouldn't because I had the breakers on opposite sides. So I moved the breakers to the same side and the pump turned on and the heater turned on as well. Would this still mean I'm only getting 30amps? I used to 30amps because I don't have room in the box for a double pole breaker. I used the 30amp tandem breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 You're getting THIRTY amps. A double pole breaker is basically two single breakers built into one. As an FYI, while what you're doing will work, it's against code and a bit dangerous (with a double pole breaker, if it trips "both breakers" turn off. In your situation, only one will trip and you'll still have one leg of live power going to the spa). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenleisure21 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Thank you. Do you know if they make 60am double poles that are smaller than standard size? What are my options if I don't have space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenleisure21 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nevermind. They are standard size breakers. So even though I have two 30amp breakers next to each other, in still only getting 30amps total? But then you say two single poles are the same as one double pole. So don't I have it right except for it doesn't meet code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It doesn't meet code which make it illegal and dangerous (because when one breaker trips, the other doesn't and there's still power going to the spa. Circuit breakers come as full size, and half size (wafer breakers). The image above shows the different configurations. The top left breaker is a full size 120v breaker. On the right in the middle are some 120v wafer breakers. The bottom left breaker is a 240 volt breaker (notice how the two handles are tied together) . 240v breakers rarely come in wafer size, and when they do, it can be tricky to place them correctly so they supply 240v (you experienced this originally when you had to move a breaker to get your 240v). In the US, home are supplied with two hot legs of 120v electricity. The electricity is alternating current. Imagine the wires running horizontally, and the current alternating from left to right. When the current is moving to the left in one of these hot legs, it's moving to the right in the other. As it alternates, it then move to the right in one, and the left in the other. In order to get 240v, you have to pull power from each of these legs. Think of it like a "two man tree saw". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenleisure21 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I understand that it doesn't meet code but is this my problem why it keeps tripping? Shouldn't I be getting 60amps still since they are right next to each other? Just like how you have your kitchen and master bath breakers only I have both of those running my hot tub. 30amps each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 NO! You are only providing THIRTY amps. You don't double the number of the breaker when you use two breakers to supply 240v. It's only THIRTY amps your providing to the spa! [br] Remember, you're providing power from two 120v "legs" of power.....and you're only providing 30a from each leg, NOT 60a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenleisure21 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Okay. Thank you. I apologize, I had thought that a 60amp double pull was essentially 2 30amp breakers but it is acutually 2 60amp breakers. I have switched them out to a 60amp double pole breaker so we will see what happens over time. Thanks for all of your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 You'll have no problems with a 60A double pole. Many people get confused with 240V circuits. Itst easy to understand 120V where you have 1 live + Neutral + Ground. What you don't realize is that the power entering your house is 2 live (L1 & L2) + Neutral + Ground. The 2 live lines are not the same, they are phased 180° apart. ie.. when line 1 is cycling positive, line 2 cycles negative and vice versa. All panels are designed to alternate between L1 & L2 with each breaker slot so that the load is balanced. This is why your pumps didn't work with breakers on opposite sides of the panel. Both were connected to the same line. Breakers installed next to each other on the same side are guaranteed to have seperate live lines. Thats how DOUBLE pole breakers are designed. Dr Spa is correct in that 2 single pole breakers is a code violation, although I've seen some electricians cheat by installing a clamp on the tabs but most inspectors won't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Most half size double pole breakers come in a block of 4 with the middle 2 ganged as double. They take exaxtly the same space as a regular double pole but have 2 aditional single poles, one above and one below. They're usually an option of last resort as they tend to be pricey and hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_tL3cJSTwdg6Es9b136sd_8h8l8IdSZKSsjMEcBZgiGCa5Bjiog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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