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Poppits Making Me Sick?


mgrobins

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Hi,

I've always run my spa using chlorine and the suggested methods on this forum.

Some months back I bought a new spa (LA Spas Allure III) which is about 900L. I am using the Poppits (Sanosil) system as that was what was provided and it was presented as an easy odourless and more gentle solution for me and the spa.

I couple of times I have found a strong vapour of the hydrogen peroxide and after using the spa have felt nauseous - sore glands and stomach.... like I'm ill. Breathing in causes pain and I feel like I'm running a fever.

First time I didn't tie it to the spa but now I'm quite suspicious.

My questions:

1. is it likely the hydrogen peroxide could cause these symptoms? It's within the normal range for the spa strips

2. how long should I wait after dosing before getting in?

3. If the sanosil is not killing effectively would my issue be bacterial ingestion (breathing in heavily laden vapours)?

Onset occurs over a couple of hours so I'm thinking toxicity is the issue more than bacteria.

I find the water gets 'fizzy' very quick using this system as compared to my old chlorine spa.

Anyone have any light to shed on this or advice?

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Are you measuring and balancing your hydrogen peroxide level to 50 ppm which is usually the required level for disinfection with that system (not EPA approved for disinfection, but is approved for such use in spas in Australia) -- you mention test strips but they may not be accurate? You usually wouldn't have such strong vapor at these levels, but hydrogen peroxide is not as strong or broad an oxidizer as chlorine. Do you have an ozonator? If not, then that may be part of the problem. You may be building up bather waste in the spa. That would explain the fizziness as well. Is there any particular reason you are using this system rather than chlorine?

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Thanks Chem Geek :).

I'll check the strips. They have levels indicating 40-60-80-100 ....

I did think that the issue may be that peroxide is not as effective as chlorine but the illness came on same day as being in the spa which I would not expect if it were due to a high bacterial load. Would a couple of hours in the spa in a day make someone feel ill with too much peroxide?

I shower before using the spa, wash the filters weekly and have an ozonator that is running at least 8 cycles a day.

I use MPS for getting rid of waste - does this build up in the water over time?

I'm using liquids so am not certain why the water gets fizzy quite quickly. This area of town does have a lot more dust than my old place but the spa is covered when not in use.

My inclination is to go back to chlorine. I made the change based on included chemicals with the spa and my last spa had a lot of fading of fittings and deterioration of the cover that I think was related to the chlorine. It was my first spa (inherited with the home) and it took me time to get the chem management worked out.

I had thought of using a automatic doser for the poppits.

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MPS has a minor contaminant potassium persulfate (not monopersulfate which is the main ingredient) that is irritating to some people. However, that would be a skin irritation, not something volatile that you breathe.

If you want to use less chlorine, you could try Nature2 with MPS and just shock with chlorine once a week or so.

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Thanks for the advice :)

I just bought a big bottle of sanosil a few weeks ago worst luck but I'm just not comfortable with it. seems to need pretty fine management to stay on top of the water quality.

I do have a question if you wouldn't mind...

I read the bleach/dichlor method. I used to do this same method (home brand bleach here in Australia) except I ake a small container to my pool shop and get them to give me some CYA (often called sunscreen here). I found it easier to measure what I need on a spreadsheet calculator.

I have an often on ozonator so my CD will be quite high. I'm thinking of the Nature 2 and MPS method with weekly chlorine shock.

Can you please outline a simple procedure for startup and maintenance of this method? Not the water balance .... just the sanitation :).

You mention

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Yes, you can certainly add pure CYA after a water refill instead of using Dichlor to build up the CYA, but just note that pure CYA dissolves slowly.

And yes, with an ozonator your chlorine demand will be higher in between soaks since ozone reacts with chlorine. If you were to use the spa every day or two, then it would be OK since ozone would reduce the chlorine demand by oxidizing your bather waste. So if you don't plan on using the spa that frequently, then Nature2 with MPS would work better since the ozone will not deplete the MPS.

So the procedure is described in the Nature2 Spa Mineral Sanitizer Owner's Manual. After installing a fresh Nature2 cartridge, you shock with chlorine (Dichlor) that activates the cartridge. After that, you test for MPS and add more before and/or after the soak to maintain it. If you had no ozonator, then it would take roughly 7 teaspoons of MPS per person-hour to oxidize your bather waste, but with the ozonator you'll likely only need about half that amount -- you'll have to just see what you need to still have a proper MPS level 24 hours after a soak.

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Thanks heaps :).

Spa is only used by me and for 2-4 times a week so I think the N2 and MPS method should be ok.

I set up the water as:

TA 80-90

CH ~150

CYA 30ppm

added chlorine to get to 10ppm

borates to ~40ppm

PH is high at about 8.6 after aeration so I need to get some PH reducer if the pH doesn't drop (hoping the CYA will drop it a bit as it dissolves properly).

After about 4 hours placed the N2 cartridge.

As I see it I now have 2 options as the N2 manual describes a MPS and chlorine method:

Note: As an alternative to MPS2, an EPA registered source

of dichlor1 may be substituted: 1 tablespoon dichlor1 =

approximately 3 tablespoons MPS2

Since I have placed a bolus of CYA already I'll just use bleach.

1. MPS method - let the chlorine decline on its own and use MPS before and after bathing. Chlorine shock weekly or as needed (will CYA be an issue for this)?

2. Chlorine method: 1 teaspoon equivalent of bleach before/after bathing and shock with MPS as required. again, will the set level of CYA cause the available chlorine to be too low?

Both seem to require about the same input and cost. Is one method particularly better?

It seems to me the suggestion to add dichlor at about 2 teaspoons a session would lead to a high CYA after 4 months. Also, 2 tablespoons of MPS per session would get quite costly c.f the use of bleach (I pay $0.99 FOR 2L).

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I tend to use the CYA route. There's a simple trick to it . For my tub 30ppm CYA is just under 40g of stabilizer. Measure the CYA and add to a bucket of boiling water, mix well then let stand. I usually do this before filling the tub. By the time the tub is full and the water balanced, you're good to go. just add the bucket to the spa. Now just add bleach. It really doesn't get much easier or cheaper. Using dichlor first obviously works, but I I find it a chore to log each dose to know when the 30ppm is reached and testing CYA is a bit of a pain unless you have the larger reagent bottles the 22ml kit only has enough for 3 tests.

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