Hot Springs - Ace System And Low Chlorine

[ehansen2580]

I purchased a Hot Springs Vanguard in August 2012. I purchased it with the ACE System as I liked the idea of not having to add chemicals and everything I read made me believe the system worked pretty well. I will say that when it's working it works great. Rarely would I have to add anything to the water, really only after the kids would have friend over and it was really heavily used I would add a bit of disinfectant and that's it.

The problem I have is that the cell keeps failing. I've had it replaced twice already and it looks like it's not working again. The previous two times it would show very low (no) salt and wouldn't generate any free chlorine. I would test the water and the salt levels would be fine. Call service and they would say the cell was bad and replace it under warranty.

Now I'm out of warranty and the system isn't working again. It's reporting the salt level correctly but not generating any chlorine. Talking to the guy at the local spa shop he suggested the electronic control board might be shot.

Any suggestions?

[Loopcity]

Manually adding chemicals is really not a big deal, and is quite a bit cheaper than replacing cells over and over. Personally, I would recommend looking into the spa frog system. You just replace a cartridge once in awhile and maybe add some shock every couple of weeks. You could also look into the dichlor / bleach method which people have a lot of success with. You can even just get a floater basket and put some bromine tablets in it. There are many different methods to treat the water that aren't too complicated.

Good luck!

[ehansen2580]

Thanks for the feedback. If I don't get it working I'll look up those methods and I'll adopt one. Obviously I'd prefer to get the ACE system working since I bought it and it really does work well when it's working.

I tried cleaning the cell today with murcuric acid and it looked like it may have cleaned the cell a bit better. I held the cell under water after cleaning it and there were bubbles being generated so it may be working now and the more thorough cleaning may have been all that was needed. We shall see.

[PreservedSwine]

Call Watkins MFG 1-800-888-4688

Have your serial number handy

[Gifti]

Hello!

I also own a HS Envoy. New. Model 2013 with ACE.

First start-up: 10th January 2013.

Powered: 3 phase-current; 230V, (L1: heater, L2: pump1, L3: pump2)

Ozone III is deactivated.

Usage:

2 Persons (at the moment)

We use the spa every 2nd day for approx. 40 minutes.

We have 37°C water temp. (displayed)

We take a short shower before using the spa.

Water keeps in the spa for 6 months. (Due the fact we only use it personally

and take a shower before using it, its possible )

Hardness (total):

The hardness of our water is a bit too high, but I fail to see spending

expensive 2 vanishing-acts bags to reach the recommended value.

At least I measured 10 dH°.(=178ppm).

Salt:

Level is in the upper green-1/3 of the level-bar. The salt-leveltest has to be performed manually!

I recognized that the salt reading is sometimes different. So I found out that you have to

run the pumps at least for 1 minute to flush the ACE-cell, before running the salt-level test.

Due this, the readings are nearly constant. But dont forget: You have to perform the salt test manually by pushing the button the salt level is NOT measured automatically and displayed in the bar!

Calcinex:

Hardness stabilizer. Only one cup (50ml) at a new start-up-filling.

http://www.bayrol.com/en/products-pool-water-treatment/winter-treatment-swimming-pools/calcinex-water-hardness/index.html

pH:

I try to keep the pH-Level at 7,2 - so the first 4 weeks after refilling the pool I am

measuring and correcting every 2 days.

(Action is done immediate we use the spa).

My target, which I keep: 7,2.

ACE:

I recognized that the ACE reacts very sensitive to the set user parameters:

Spa-Size and Usage-Level.

I set Spa-size to "6" and user Level to "3".

I know that for Envoy a spa-size of 7 has to be set, but playing a bit with some combinations

of both values I have lot more possibilities.

Cl:

The recommend level is 1 to 5 ppm.

We try to keep it as low as possible: Around 1,5 ppm. (because of our sensitive skin.)

With the above written settings for the ACE (6 and 3) we have around 2,0 ppm.

So I tried to reduce the usage-level from 3 to "2" thinking to reach my target 1,5 ppm.

After one normal bathing and 2 more days I measured again: Chlorine falls down below 0,5ppm.

Two possibilities: ACE is working too low with these settings. Or: Fearing the ACE got broken in the meantime...

So I set the usage Level back to "3" and let the pool alone for 2 more days, before testing again the water quality.

Surprise: The Chlorine was back to 2.0ppm.

So ACE is working but the settings are too roughly balanced.

Maybe I play a bit with the pool-size, reducing it from 6 to 5 finding the right balance of both Parameters to reach my target of 1,5ppm.

PS: Additional Chlorine form the bottle I only used ONCE at refilling with fresh water at start-up (approx. to 3 ppm). Since then I never used extra chlorine again!

ACE-Cleaning:

I clean the cell once a month. If necessary or not. Exactly as described on the ACE-cleaning-bottle.

Knocking on wood: Until now everything works fine!

Good Luck,

Gifti

[ehansen2580]

Gifti,

Thanks for the thorough reply. I had similar experience with my spa until a couple months ago when I first posted. The ACE system seemed flawless and I rarely had to add additional chlorine. The only times were when my kids would have a lot of friends over and I'd add a teaspoon or two of disinfectant to the tub. Other than that it would keep the water crystal clear and the levels would remain very constant.

I had a tech from Islander's Pools and Spa's come by this week. My analysis of the job he did concluded he doesn't know what he's talking about. He reported my free chlorine as good (even though there clearly isn't any free chlorine) and that he has seen worse looking spa's than mine. Need to follow-up with there service group tomorrow as this is the second visit this tech made and he obviously isn't a very good tech.

Best of luck with your system.

[fhp6]

I am a new tub owner, Limelight GLOW, had it 3 months. I have done the monthly maintenance when the green light on the front begins to flash. The ACE system is on my tub. This time (3rd time) I cleaned the filter, checked the chemicals, added a cap full of chlorine, and confirmed the output level at 2.

The GREEN light will not stop flashing. So, I shut off the power and cleaned the ACE cell. Re-installed the cell and turned on the power. The GREEN light on the front is still flashing and the WATER CARE icon on the control panel is flashing. I noticed a message as you scroll through the ACE menu...STAT9. Has anyone had a similar issue?

Hoping that someone might be able to offer some assistance on how to make the GREEN light stop flashing. Sent an email to my local dealer but he won't get it until Tuesday.

Thank you,

Mike

[Gifti]

Hello!

Did you check the salt level?

Change user level to 3.

Also change spa size to another level and confirm.

Green light still flashing?

[ehansen2580]

FHP6, you need to go into your user panel and confirm the Use Level. This needs to be done every 3 months. Just go to that particular screen and hit confirm. Your light should stop blinking immediately. You may need to confirm the Spa Size as well, I don't think this is the case but don't recall off hand.

[ehansen2580]

So a bit of an update. I've checked that the ACE Cell is generating bubbles. So the cell itself seems to be working. I notice that when I open the filter hold-down a large volume of gas (big bubbles) are released. This only happens in the filter with the ACE cell. I spoke with Islanders Spa and they said the filter needs to be cleaned which seems to be their reply to just about everything. It was pretty clean, but I bought a brand new filter anyway and put it in with the ACE cell. Let it work overnight and opened the filter hold down this morning and again large bubbles were released.

I would think it's my recirculation pump but I would think if the recirc pump wasn't flowing then I would see overheats and the water would cool down, which it isn't.

It really seems like water isn't flowing through the ACE cell for it to circulate through the entire tub.

Any suggestions?

[fhp6]

I checked the salt level...it's fine...verified the output level at 3..The GLOW doesn't have a size select function...at least not that I can find.

I looked at the ACE cell and noticed a black fiber type of material protruding from the bottom of the cell. It's very flimsy and flakes apart. I have no idea what that fiber could be.

Thank you for your responses. Green light still flashing.

[ehansen2580]

Looks like you have a temperature sensor failure or issue according to the users manual. You should call your dealer as it's still under warranty and they'll check it out for you.

[PreservedSwine]

 

I am a new tub owner, Limelight GLOW, had it 3 months. I have done the monthly maintenance when the green light on the front begins to flash. The ACE system is on my tub. This time (3rd time) I cleaned the filter, checked the chemicals, added a cap full of chlorine, and confirmed the output level at 2.The GREEN light will not stop flashing. So, I shut off the power and cleaned the ACE cell. Re-installed the cell and turned on the power. The GREEN light on the front is still flashing and the WATER CARE icon on the control panel is flashing. I noticed a message as you scroll through the ACE menu...STAT9. Has anyone had a similar issue?Hoping that someone might be able to offer some assistance on how to make the GREEN light stop flashing. Sent an email to my local dealer but he won't get it until Tuesday.Thank you,Mike

 

STAT9 means it's reading a very high salt level, and the green light will flash on the front panel. Your temp sensors are fine. Double check your salt level with a strip. If it's good (They want it around 1750ppm) the cell needs replacement. You just have a single output setting, correct? That will need to be confirmed once a month.

ehansen2580- the bubbles are the accumulation of bubbles from the cell. The circ pump simply isn't powerful enough to suck them down. Do you see the large hole in the side of the filter cap? It's there so the air bubbles can escape. The accumulation of bubbles isn't evidence the circ pump isn't circulating. Simply put, if the spa is heating, the circ pump is working fine. It only draws water from one place, right where the cell is located.

[Gifti]

As I wrote: check the salt level.

Try the following:

Power off the pool.

Take the ace cell cleaning bottle and fill it with fresh water.

Put the cell into it and move it a bit up and down to rinse the electrodes of the cell.

Then power on the pool and start a check of the salt level on display ... When Test finished: Salt should be zero.

Now add a really small amount of salt to the bottle, stir well and put the ace-cell into it. ( moving up down a bit)

Repeat salt test on the display and recheck salt level.

Any changes?

[fhp6]

I put fresh water into the cell cleaning bottle and rinsed as you suggested. The STAT still reads 5. The 5 reading appeared this afternoon after I drained about 1/2 of the water from my spa and refilled.

I drained it a second time today at the suggestion of my dealer/service person. With half a spa full of un-circulated water the reading STAT should have been much lower than 5. So.......I ran a CLEAN cycle, confirmed the Output level at 3, and did the STAT test. 5 came up again. Because the water temp is at 82 the water icon is steady on and the green light is not illuminated. I will have to wait until the temperature rises to check it again.

From what I can read on this forum it is looking to me like a bad cell or other component not reading correctly. When I test the water with the test strips I get normal readings for chemicals and the salt after I refilled the spa was at about 1000.

I have not added any salt since the dealer installed the ACE system and he added 4 cups of salt. How does the salt level increase when no salt is added?

I appreciate the help you folks are offering. I am certain this issue will be figured out and corrected. Then, I can continue to enjoy my spa without this ACE hassle.

[fhp6]

Spa Guru...the output level is so that I can adjust it from 0 to 10. I have had it set at 3. Salt level strip, before I drained 1/2 of the water, was at 1750. I refilled and it is at about 1000. The STAT level is showing a 5. See my previous post for the sequence I used to reset and check the spa.

[PreservedSwine]

Are you certain you're reading the test strips correctly? It shouldn't be reading STAT 5 at 1000ppm, nor should it be reading STAT9 at 1750ppm. The ACE system doesn't actually run a "salt" test, it running a continuity test, and interprets the resistance of the water as a salt level. A few other things in the water can affect the continuity of the water, and "fool" the ACE system's salt test.

[ehansen2580]

PreservedSwine, thanks. I figured it was accumulation of the gas released by the cell. I don't understand why if it's generating gas, and presumably chlorine, that my free chlorine is always at 0.

[fhp6]

 

Are you certain you're reading the test strips correctly? It shouldn't be reading STAT 5 at 1000ppm, nor should it be reading STAT9 at 1750ppm. The ACE system doesn't actually run a "salt" test, it running a continuity test, and interprets the resistance of the water as a salt level. A few other things in the water can affect the continuity of the water, and "fool" the ACE system's salt test.

 

Yep...a friend of mine is a pool checker and knows how to read the strips, etc. She will bring a test kit tomorrow and make sure the strips are giving us a good reading. Today, per your suggestion, I took the ACE cell and put it in the cleaning bottle with tap water. Ran a test and the STAT was 1. I put the cell back in the spa and ran the STAT. It is a 6. Is this leaning toward a bad cell?

[fhp6]

One other question...how do you know if the ACE cell is going or is bad?

[ehansen2580]

fhp6, my first cell went bad within 6 months of having the spa. The second went bad 6 months after that. The first time my salt reading went low on the display so I added salt. I didn't see much difference in the salt reading so I took a sample to my local dealer. They tested and of couse it tested way high. After much back and forth they determined the cell was bad and was leading to false indications on the display. So now I don't rely on the display for my salt levels. I use the test strips. I'm hearing the test strips aren't that accurate either, so I tend to take a sample to my spa dealer whenever I think there is an issue and they test it for free.

The second cell went bad and the same indication occured with low salt being displayed. Instead of doing anyting else I had the water tested and the salt levels were fine. They extended my warranty a few weeks and replaced the cell a second time under warranty, which was nice. But I'm thinking these cells are good for 6 months now and then need replacment. Could be wrong, next one that dies I'll probably switch to some other methods on this site for keeping the water balanced.

I really like the ACE system, when it works it works really well. When it doesn't work its maddening to determine the root cause.

[fhp6]

Thank you for the information. This is my first spa and for the first two months I had not had a problem with the ACE system. Now at the end of the third month the problems begin. I wondered why Hot Springs was offering a free ACE system. I suspect that this will a long drawn out process to have this issue properly diagnosed and resolved. I've drained the spa twice. The first time about 1/3 and the second 1/2. That gets old in a hurry. So I guess I have to wait and see what the STAT does next. It's at six today after having drained 1/2 of the water yesterday. I have not added any salt since I first filled it in Nov. The dealer put in 4 cups when he installed the ACE system. He asked me today how much salt I had added. He said he was concerned to see if the ACE would produce chlorine.

The wait and see is not a good approach to resolving this type of issue.

[ehansen2580]

fhp6, yeah draining the spa is real pain. If you have a loca dealer just take a sample in and have them check it. They should be happy to help you. I'm really disappointed with Hot Springs as I've had nothing but problems since I got my spa. The ACE system hasn't worked well, teh cover doesn't fit well against the tub and the lights often flash random colors. I'd return it if I could but I don't see that happening.

[fhp6]

I do have a local dealer and he seems to be on island time. (not all bad) That is part of the reason I think this will be a long drawn out process. If he has a method to test the water you would have thought he'd taken a sample when he stopped by on Monday. Instead he told me what I already knew, my STAT was at 9 and indicating the salt was high. At his suggestion I drained 1/2 of the water. Today I am reading STAT6. I do not think that is a good reading as I have added no salt or chemicals. At the suggestion of spa guru I checked the ACE cell in the cleaning bottle with tap water. STAT showed 1. I don't think there is salt in my tap water.

[anania]

@ehansen2580 Did you ever resolve the issue you had with large bubbles coming from your filter cap when removed? I have the exact problem on a brand new cell. I agree with @PreservedSwine that it is a result of the gas coming from the cell and that the circulation pump is not pulling it through the system. I also have a chlorine level of low-0. I read the cell install instructions and noted that the length of the cell cord needs to be adjusted depending on the hot tub model. I have a Pulse, so the cord length needs to be 13.75". I checked the length and it was only 13. I extended the cord another 1.5 to 2 inches hoping that will bring the cell closer to the intake. Sounds logical anyway. Still waiting to see if this works, but would like to know if you resolved this, or if anyone else is having the issue.