Warranty Service On Evolution Spa

[arf1410]

Well, at about 22 months old, I go out to my Evolution Spa and find 1/2 (or more) of the water gone...I open up the cabinets...see no sign of water or a leak...but I do know in the 3-4 days since I last used it, lots of water is missing. Was all ready to come back to this forum with foot in mouth as several had assured me it would be leak prone, with a short warranty, and difficultly getting service. I power down...call 1-800-Strong...tell them what happened ...and they said full parts and labor warranty for 2 years...they took my tele, and said a techynician would be in touch. About 4 hours later, a technician from a local spa dealer called to schedule an appointment...and came to my house a few days later. Turns out there was not a leak at all. My teenage son and friends closed the cover with the fountains still on, and managed to spray / deflect the water off the inside of the cover and onto the ground. He said there was still enough water in the spa so that pumps were not running dry, so no concern they were damaged. He left me a copy of the receipt showing the diagnostics he did, and an amount of ~$255, which he said would be covered directly by Strong...nothing for me to pay.

So bottom line, I am satisfied, and don't see how the warranty service coverage and process would have been any different if I had purchased the spa at the dealer 5 miles away.

[Dr. Spa]

$255 ????????? For what?

[Roger]

Dealers charge more for the service of brands they don't sell knowing that the manufacturer is likely to cut the amount paid anyway. I'm not saying this is the case but it happens. In most cases manufacturers pay a set amount per hour no matter what your going rate is. If you do service for these manufacturers you agree to this rate.

When you service the brand you sell you do it for other reasons, reputation and referral sales. So you do it for parts and labor cost.

Some of us don't play this game.

Glad there is nothing wrong with your tub arf. Strong has been holding up for the couple years they have been around. Maybe they will change the mold that has been established by the previous Costco offerings but there's a couple more years before they get to the longest lasting previous brand sold there.

[PreservedSwine]

How is that satisfaction?

Wait a month or two, when the claim gets denied, and the local guy comes to you for re-imbursment of a completely bogus claim.

[arf1410]

I was looking for the copy of the receipt, but couldn't find it. It was mostly a troubleshooting charge. Full up tub with water. Remove all side panels, and look for leaks. He was here a while. Maybe $90 truck charge plus $90 per hour x 1.5 hours + 10% tax.... And there you are. Seattle is expensive - appliance guys are typically 129-149 just to come to your house and diagnos problem. And preserved swine - if, hypothetically some one comes after me for payment next month, then I will be dissatisfied. But until then, I'm happy. After I had the spa 2 months, a pillow tore off. Those are specifically excluded from warranty but strong replaced it for free anyway, including free shipping. I have zero complaints on service support our warranty.

[arf1410]

I was looking for the copy of the receipt, but couldn't find it. It was mostly a troubleshooting charge. Full up tub with water. Remove all side panels, and look for leaks. He was here a while. Maybe $90 truck charge plus $90 per hour x 1.5 hours + 10% tax.... And there you are. Seattle is expensive - appliance guys are typically 129-149 just to come to your house and diagnos problem. And preserved swine - if, hypothetically some one comes after me for payment next month, then I will be dissatisfied. But until then, I'm happy. After I had the spa 2 months, a pillow tore off. Those are specifically excluded from warranty but strong replaced it for free anyway, including free shipping. I have zero complaints on service support our warranty.

[PreservedSwine]

It is comforting to know that you called to report a problem, and someone came.

But the problem you had was actually no problem at all, other than operator error. I have no doubt Strong did what they should have under the circumstances. But the behavior of the service company seems unusual.

Typically, a claim such as that will not be re-reimbursed. If somehow it is, it's doubtful they'd send the same company out a second time to be fleeced of $250 for.... nothing. Or, if they don't pay (and for the record, I don't think they should), and you develop a legitimate problem, do you think the tech who was just not paid is going to be just waiting to be stiffed again?

A warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship. Your issue was neither.

I don't think I'd use this as an example of anything, other than someone billing a manufacturer $250 for nothing.

[Apollo217]

Well, at about 22 months old, I go out to my Evolution Spa and find 1/2 (or more) of the water gone...I open up the cabinets...see no sign of water or a leak...but I do know in the 3-4 days since I last used it, lots of water is missing. Was all ready to come back to this forum with foot in mouth as several had assured me it would be leak prone, with a short warranty, and difficultly getting service. I power down...call 1-800-Strong...tell them what happened ...and they said full parts and labor warranty for 2 years...they took my tele, and said a techynician would be in touch. About 4 hours later, a technician from a local spa dealer called to schedule an appointment...and came to my house a few days later. Turns out there was not a leak at all. My teenage son and friends closed the cover with the fountains still on, and managed to spray / deflect the water off the inside of the cover and onto the ground. He said there was still enough water in the spa so that pumps were not running dry, so no concern they were damaged. He left me a copy of the receipt showing the diagnostics he did, and an amount of ~$255, which he said would be covered directly by Strong...nothing for me to pay.

So bottom line, I am satisfied, and don't see how the warranty service coverage and process would have been any different if I had purchased the spa at the dealer 5 miles away.

You better hope strong doesn't read this or you will be about the $255. This clearly wasn't a warranty issue and you should have been charged

[arf1410]

Again, I don't agree with preserved swine's comment :"... other than someone billing a manufacturer $250 for nothing" It was perfectly legitimate for the repairman to bill Strong for sending someone to my house and diagnosing a problem. I would certainly think Strong should (and would) reimburse the repairman for the service provided, not for "doing nothing" as you imply. I've paid car repairmen for their time to try and diagnosis a problem, and not being able to find one. Suppose I bought a car under warranty back to the dealership because all off a sudden the car was handling very poorly, and I thought there was a suspension problem. They spend time (say an hour) looking for a problem, and it turns out it was just low air pressure in the tires. Does the dealership charge me, or not? The answer to question helps define the quality of customer support.

If, hypothetically, Strong does not send me a bill, then to me, this case is an example of Strong providing excellent customer care, though I'm guessing you two may disagree.

From a practical point of view, I don't think they will try to bill me, as this is probably an unusual case, and they are a good sized company that probably does not even have a system in place to bill customers for labor charges.

[Spa_Guru]

Manufacturers typically pay a maximum of $75 for a warranty call, plus repair time.... and unless the guy submits a bogus repair claim to Strong to get paid, you will be the one paying, because no manufacturer warrantees operator error.

[arf1410]

Spa Guru ...You may be correct, that Strong might bill me...but at the momment, it has not happened. If, Hypothetically, Strong does not charge me, by your own words, you would have to admint Strong has gone above and beyond the support of most manufacturers.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The whole thing is odd to me. If the waterfall was on high and the cover closed it should not be losing water since it would hit the bottom and drip back into the spa. Even if some got out it due to the cover not closing well it would be minimal since the pumps will time out so its not like it can run for days like that and during filtering and heating its on low speed so it shouldn't matter since the waterfall would barely flow then. There has to be more to the story but in the end maybe the tech knows how to wordsmith this one so that nothing more will come of it.

[arf1410]

I'm not completely clear either how it happened...but it was not a waterfall that was left on, but a fountain, that when on, it arcs from edge, up about 2 feet above water level, and "lands" in roughly the middle of the spa. While my son and his friends aren't bad kids, with a couple 15 year old boys, I guess it is in the realm of possibilty they rotated / re-airmed the fountain so the water landed outside the spa?

[Roger]

Or sat on it so it just dribbled over the side and like most teenagers they could care less and closed it and left.

[PreservedSwine]

Spa Guru ...You may be correct, that Strong might bill me...but at the momment, it has not happened. If, Hypothetically, Strong does not charge me, by your own words, you would have to admint Strong has gone above and beyond the support of most manufacturers.

The tech would have to submit a bogus claim to be paid. If you see the end result as Strong going "above and beyond," it really makes no difference. It is what it is.

As Spa-tech has suggested, the whole thing seems odd.

It seems odd that you've had the spa for two years, then this suddenly happened. I wouldn't find it surprising if your issue re-appeared.

I wish you the best of luck, it's just that your example of "great service" was anything but, imo.

[arf1410]

So PS, I think we might just have to agree to disagree on whether the repair man deserves to get paid for the service call. I'm fairly sure there are some professional spa repair men on this board, and I'm curious if they would expect to get paid if they made a service call, and determined nothing was actually broken.

As far as how the water disappeared ...inside the cabinet was bone dry...so if it wasn't the fountains getting water outside teh spa in some fashion, what else do you think might have cuased the water to disappear?

I'm actually tempted to close the cover with the fountains on, and watching to see what happens!

[Apollo217]

So PS, I think we might just have to agree to disagree on whether the repair man deserves to get paid for the service call. I'm fairly sure there are some professional spa repair men on this board, and I'm curious if they would expect to get paid if they made a service call, and determined nothing was actually broken.

As far as how the water disappeared ...inside the cabinet was bone dry...so if it wasn't the fountains getting water outside teh spa in some fashion, what else do you think might have cuased the water to disappear?

I'm actually tempted to close the cover with the fountains on, and watching to see what happens!

Yes I would expect to get paid by you not strong. The only way strong pays this is if the tech lies about what the problem was.

[arf1410]

/1/ A far as what happened to cause the water to disappear, I have now verified that it could have happened exactly as my son and the repairman stated. If the boys left the pop up fountain in the on position (mechanical rotating switch), but turned the pump (#1) jet off (electronic button) , the fountains retract and the boys think everything if off. Pump #1, in low speed mode, is alsothe circulation pump, which runs 2 hours, twice a day. when I turn the fountains on low, with the lid closed, water does indeed flow out of the tub at a modest rate. To guess at a number, say 1 gallon every 5 minutes = 12 gallons an hour x 4 hours a day x4 days = 200 gallons of water gone, in my plausable "back of the napkin" math. so the water disappearance can indeed be explained by the known facts and observations.

/2/ So I think most people (maybe not PS) would agree that the repairman should not get caught in the middle, he desires to get paid...but by whom. I would claim there is a "contract" (oral, or written) between me and Strong, and also a contract between Strong and teh repairman. It was Strong that "hired" the repairman to come to my house. Strong almost certainly owes the repairman $$$ for the service call, though admittedly, I have not read the contract between Strong and repairman. There is no contractual relationship between me and the repairman, so the repair has no business asking me for anything. Strong may chose to "subrogate" the claim...that is ask me to reimburse Strong for their damages. Doubt they would, but I don't know for sure.

/3/ If this is not an example of good customer service from a consumer's persepectice, what could Strong have done to provide better service?

[Apollo217]

/1/ A far as what happened to cause the water to disappear, I have now verified that it could have happened exactly as my son and the repairman stated. If the boys left the pop up fountain in the on position (mechanical rotating switch), but turned the pump (#1) jet off (electronic button) , the fountains retract and the boys think everything if off. Pump #1, in low speed mode, is alsothe circulation pump, which runs 2 hours, twice a day. when I turn the fountains on low, with the lid closed, water does indeed flow out of the tub at a modest rate. To guess at a number, say 1 gallon every 5 minutes = 12 gallons an hour x 4 hours a day x4 days = 200 gallons of water gone, in my plausable "back of the napkin" math. so the water disappearance can indeed be explained by the known facts and observations.

/2/ So I think most people (maybe not PS) would agree that the repairman should not get caught in the middle, he desires to get paid...but by whom. I would claim there is a "contract" (oral, or written) between me and Strong, and also a contract between Strong and teh repairman. It was Strong that "hired" the repairman to come to my house. Strong almost certainly owes the repairman $$$ for the service call, though admittedly, I have not read the contract between Strong and repairman. There is no contractual relationship between me and the repairman, so the repair has no business asking me for anything. Strong may chose to "subrogate" the claim...that is ask me to reimburse Strong for their damages. Doubt they would, but I don't know for sure.

/3/ If this is not an example of good customer service from a consumer's persepectice, what could Strong have done to provide better service?

You called reporting a problem. They say warranty isn't up. Tech comes says its not a warranty issue and you don't think you should have to pay? If this is common practice for strong then they won't be around long. They can't afford to pay bogus warranty charges. I have never seen a manufacturer pay more then $75 an hour so I'm still not sure how the tech thinks he's going to get paid tht much.

[arf1410]

I never once said I shouldn't pay, or that I wouldn't. If Strong asks me to pay, I likely would, but I'm not going to call them up, apologize, and ask where to send a check. My "contract" is with Strong, not the repairman.

I have no idea how much the repairman may actually get paid. While that $255 may have indeed been fair market price, the reimbursement rates for warrantee work might be somewhat less, as you suggest.

I would guess this sort of thing is a fairly rare occurence, so if a major manufacturer decided to eat the cost themselves every time it happened, I don't think they would go out of business. To help me better understand your perspective Apollo, are you just a spa owner, or do you have a financial interest in the spa business?

[Apollo217]

I never once said I shouldn't pay, or that I wouldn't. If Strong asks me to pay, I likely would, but I'm not going to call them up, apologize, and ask where to send a check. My "contract" is with Strong, not the repairman.

I have no idea how much the repairman may actually get paid. While that $255 may have indeed been fair market price, the reimbursement rates for warrantee work might be somewhat less, as you suggest.

I would guess this sort of thing is a fairly rare occurence, so if a major manufacturer decided to eat the cost themselves every time it happened, I don't think they would go out of business. To help me better understand your perspective Apollo, are you just a spa owner, or do you have a financial interest in the spa business?

I own a swimming pool/ hot tub company. It does happen more then you would think. I have been called a number of times by people saying their brand new hot tub isn't working. 99% of the time the tub has been miswired by an electrician or the homeowner playing electrician. I do tell people up front though that if its warranty related its covered if not they are responsible for the charge. That is where in y opinion strong screwed up. They should have said that up front. The thing with hot tub manufacturers is most pay around $50 for warranty work. They don't pay trip or diagnostic charges. So you pretty much lose money anytime you do warranty work. Not all manufacturers work like this but many do

[arf1410]

I can understand the concept of really low warranty reimbursement rates to service products you sell. As part of an agreement to sell the product, you probably had to sign a contract to provide warranty service at X$ per hour. You had no choice but to accept low rates. But in Strong's case, to get people who don't sell your product to provide service, there would be no incentive for them to do it unless they were getting paid enough money for them to make a profit on the work. Though I don't know the exact employment status (independent contractor? direct employee?) of my repairman, when I returned the call I got to a spa dealer "press 1 for dales, 2 for service.."

[Roger]

I think it is becoming clear why tub owners or dealers that call me pay my bill and submit for reimbursement on their own.

[arches2]

The thing i got out of this whole thread is if an homeowner isn't willing to do a minimal amount of diagnostics prior to calling in the warrantee they should understand that they might get charged. I would have at a minimum looked in the cabinet for an obvious leak, and refilled the tub to see if it leaked again. In this case it wouldn't have so there would have been no reason to waste anyones time. I think arf should definately be paying and i'm just a homeowner with no skin in the game..

[arf1410]

Arches - you didn't read the thread cloasely - the very first post I stated I pulled off all (8) of the side panels and looked for signs of leaks, and saw not one drop of water inside the cabinet. The very first thing I did though was turn off the electricity. From a couple years reading this forum,I was fearful of doing damage by running the pumps dry. My other reason for almost immediately calling Strong was I knew I bought the tub roughly 2 years ago, and I didn't want to spend 2 weeks troubleshooting, the be told my warranty expired last week. Certainly one could fault Strong for not spending more time on the phone helping me troubleshoot, so maybe this could have been solved over the tele, and you could claim an experienced "ma and pa" dealer would have that extra insite and experience to look for this sort of "leak"

The other thing I have noticed from reading this forum for a couple of years, is that I think the majority of posters are people in the industry, not spa owners. To an owner, my experience is good customer severice. To people on the "inside". this type of customer service could be expensive, and set up unreasonable customer expectations, therefore, is bad While I do not think they will, I do think it would would reasonable for Strong to ask me for reimbursement, whether they will or not, I guess too early to say. I think it is implausable that Strong wouldn't pay the serviceman for him doing what Strong told him to do. So from a spa owner perspective, if Strong does not bill me, they have gone above and beyond reasonable expectations. Maybe that would be unique in teh spa industry, but among places I do business at, Nordstroms does that, REI does that, Costco does that...a local tire shop did a free flat repair for my wife last week and not the shop she bought the tires at...