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Massachusetts Hot Tub Servicers


n1oty

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I want to make hot tub servicers aware of pending legislation on Beacon Hill, Senate Bill 85, which is a bill that licenses pool/spa installers and pool/spa servicers. This bill was first filed last year, but never made it into law. It has been re-introduced again this year with the full backing of the APSP. At the initial meeting in Framingham three weeks ago, I appeared to be the only pure hot tub servicer present. The remaining 99 percent of the audience were pool guys. A committee was formed to guide the formation of this legislation. I managed to get onto the committee. I suggest that any of you that are unaware of this legislation contact me directly. There are many flaws in it as it stands. Contact me directly for more info.

I am not against licensing this trade per se. It would be nice to get rid of the dangerous dolts that are out there. However, this legislation is written and directed by pool people without the serious technical training that some of us have and it shows. If you want a say in your business, you better get active on this. The APSP is pushing this hard this year because, if it does not pass again this year, they cannot re-introduce the bill for two years. I knew they were serious about passage when multiple APSP attorneys showed up at the meeting.

John

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Several years ago WA state passed legislation requiring all spa repairmen get and maintain an electrician's licence for residential maintenence (7B) and if you are a single guy working alone, you must also have an administrator's licence.

The cost of a service call also went from $45 to $135.

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I expect that hot tub owners will be shocked at the service rates if this bill passes in its current form. The rates around here are already high. The discussion thus far has revolved around patterning this after the CT structure, which is code for going after anyone who is unlicensed. The bill actually characterizes unlicensed service as a misdemeanor, so it will be a crime, albeit one with a fine and not jail time.

The part that I struggle with the most is the requirement to have the APSP training or "equivalent" before sitting for the state exam, yet they don't want to accept my professional training as equivalent. I spent time at the US Military Academy back in the 70's studying engineering. I did not stay to graduate, but was well along towards my degree. Furthermore, I have my certifications and licensing from a legitimate appliance and refrigeration school, training that encompassed over a year of full time appliance and refrigeration training. I have my federally required 40 CFR Part 82 licensing for handling refrigerants. The appliance training alone encompassed all phases of troubleshooting electrical/electronic controls of various pieces of equipment, along with full training in the repair of gas appliances. When I mention this background, let alone being in the hot tub repair business since 1984, they still insist that I should have some of their pool courses and their 3 1/2 day hot tub servicers course before sitting for the state exam. Really?? I'll bet I've forgotten more about electronic controls than their instructions will ever know. I'd be willing to bet that anyone who attended any technical school full time for more than a year will have more knowledge than someone taking a 3.5 day APSP course.

This lack of acceptance as to what would constitute "equivalent" training, and what I consider to be far superior training, leads me to believe that this is more a ploy to make money selling courses/training materials/memberships and to drive out competition. I am certainly not giving up what I have, so I will do whatever it takes to meet the adopted licensing requirements. I have a very lucrative business here that includes servicing equipment for some of the local professional sports teams. In addition, my daughter plans on ultimately taking over the business when I retire and she completes her BSEE (although she is considering going on for her MSEE). I guess I'll just have to raise the rates to compensate for wasted time and licensing costs. Those APSP courses and memberships are VERY expensive.

John

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Your last sentence says it all....it's just a big giant money grab. We just spent about 10 grand between books, course fees, hotels, travel etc for 2 guys to go through the process in CT. These are guys who have been in the business for 25 years or more.

Any time we call with questions about the process nobody has answers....." We'll have to check and get back to you"...which they never do. The only thing they have been able to answer is how much the fees are, who to make the check out to, and where to send it. Other than that, the whole sorted process has been a colossal waste of time and money.

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It is impossible to certify someone in a general way to say they are trained enough to work on four decades worth of engineering changes in the industry, every major manufacturer has a different process, any training by APSP is going to be so general as to be worthless.

If I had a guy working for me, he wouldn't get his own truck for at least a year.

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Ya this would not be good for customers. Experienced pool and spa techs are already few and far between, every year we try to take on some new guys to train and it is hard in a seasonal business to have the money to train before the busy seasons.

I have been doing this for 12 years, my brother 20 and his partner 25 if the state is going to tell us we have to be licensed then we will fight it. We already have contractors licenses and CPO for commercial and we are insured? This isn't Cali or FLA we are a seasonal business, it does not make sense, Just good old Taxachusetts overreaching again!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The only one who will benefit from this is the APSP. They are lining their pockets with membership fees and now trying to force you to take their classes to make even more. How is this looking out for the industry and protecting customers? People should seriously look at this case before giving them another dime for membership. I'm in the same boat as n1oty, I have been servicing spas since 05, I have a degree in electronic engineering, I was part of a UL code making panel, and I have several patents for designing electrical safety devices. Now they are going to tell us that that we must take a 2.5 day class or we are not considered qualified to work on spas! Are you kidding me!

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Roger, it is interesting that you brought this thread of mine back to the top. The committee is definitely divided as to whether we should advance or kill this legislation. I am one of those currently in the "kill" camp, although I am trying to be open minded and fair to all opinions. I made this post here specifically to get a sense of Mass servicers, since I am essentially representing you by default. I certainly do not want to only represent myself. Thus far, after speaking with four different spa dealers, the folks here and a couple of local independent servicers that I know, all but one are against licensing. The remaining service department is neither for or against.

The only substantive item on the committee's agenda is that we are meeting with a rep of the building inspectors on the evening of April 4th. It is my understanding that the inspectors have already taken a position AGAINST S. 85 and have made written comments. I am trying to get a copy of those comments.

I know some of you read The Pool and Spa News. The March 14th edition had an article concerning licensing here:

http://www.poolspanews.com/licensing-and-certification/licensing-laws-gaining-momentum.aspx

Read the article with a grain of salt. I genuinely enjoy working with all the members of the committee and we certainly have an equal share of those rabidly for licensing as well as those that are equally rabid in their opposition, but the quotes regarding our activity in Mass are being provided by the gentleman who has sponsored this legislation twice and is the most ardent supporter of licensing in Massachusetts. I think that anyone reading this article will somehow feel that the committee is resolved to bringing licensing to fruition and that it merely remains to settle on the terms. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can safely say as fact that S. 85, as it exists now, has NO HOPE of passing muster with the committee. Even the ardent supporters on the committee now refer to S. 85 as a "place holder". They hope that they can come up with something that can be substituted and will garner enough support.

Frankly, we do have some problems here in New England when it comes to servicing pools and spas (and sauna, steam equipment, jetted bath tubs and especially the service of any three-phase equipment), very dangerous problems. Unfortunately, licensing will never clean up this issue around here for two reasons. First, electrical inspections are either downright poor or non-existent. Second, some of the worst offenders are electricians, guys who are already licensed. More problematic are the many homeowners who will simply find a low cost "handyman" on Craigs List to service their tubs simply because he is cheaper. Too many folks are willing to "roll the dice" and hire the guy without the knowledge, ability and insurance to do a repair properly. I've always said that we are working on equipment that mixes people, water and electricity. It is always safe IF the work is performed properly and to code. If................................

John

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While I feel that there is a place for licensing in this industry the way this bill is written as nothing more then a money grab for. The apsp. They should kill this bill rewrite it and come back in a couple of years and pass it through at that point. What is most alarming to me is the amount of servicers and dealers that didn't even know that this bill was in the works. The apsp owes it to all poolandspa professionals to get the word outto everybody not just apsp members. I wouldn't have known about this bill if john hadn't brought it up to me at my store

Matt

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  • 10 months later...

I am only returning to this forum to update this particular discussion and to warn professionals serving the Massachusetts market that the APSP is making another attempt at passing Senate Bill 85. Here is a link to their meeting announcement concerning this legislation:

http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102534572483-14/MA+Pool+Legislation+Meeting.pdf

I asked for a copy of the proposed amendments since I am on the committee studying this legislation, but one of the APSP attorneys has informed me that they are still working on the changes, so I won't have a copy until later this week or early next week. It is interesting to note that our study committee did have a healthy debate regarding the failings of the current bill and some proposed changes, but were never asked to vote on whatever the APSP plans to introduce in the way of amendments. At this point, I do not even know if any of my concerns have been addressed.

Oh, one other thing. Take this with a grain of salt because I am NOT a lawyer, but the current wording of the proposed legislation appears to outlaw repairs by ALL unlicensed individuals. I believe this may include homeowners as well, unless they take the required training and meet whatever other regulations are required for licensure. The proposed legislation makes repairing and servicing hot tubs and pools without a license a misdemeanor punishable by a fine, which would make such work a crime falling within the purview of the District Courts. Here is a link to the current bill which had it's most recent hearing on Beacon Hill in January:

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/188/Senate/S85

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  • 2 weeks later...

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