Decided To Do My Own Research On Clear Ray

[yellowdog]

So I have been told by a few that the Clear Ray system doesn't work as advertised. I have asked for any one to give me proof that the system does not help in keeping the water in my tub clean. Notice the word "help". No system, as in an ozonator will keep your water clean without chemicals. They are there to "help".

I talked to ultraviolet.com. I asked about my situation and they told me for "drinking water" the UV system would not work cleaning the water to pass the stringent test if the water being treated was above 95 degrees. I was then told the UV working in water about 95 will still do the same thing just at lower intensity. If the water had to pass for drinking water then he would not recommend the system. He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer. He said if you want drinking water in the tub don't buy a hot tub because no hot tub system can come close to doing that.

I asked how I can tell if my system is working right. I told him how much use my tub was getting (which is a lot) and how the water looked and the amount of chemicals I was using. He told me by what I had told him and the water clarity it is working perfectly. I asked how he could say that and he said I would notice my water getting cloudy before I put my chemicals in. I asked if I would notice a big difference if I turned off the UV. He said I would in a day or two with the amount of use my tub sees. He said the problem with turning off the system, he felt I would have to add a lot more chemicals to get the water back to where it was before the shut down. The last thing he told me was he was in no way shape or form a hot tub expert in fact he has never had a tub. He does deal in water and UV every day and understand how it works and what it can and can't do.

So for me I did do my research and I did get my questions answered by a person that is in the field. Is the UV system the end all system? Heck no! It is another choice that the consumer has in picking a hot tub. I can now say "IN MY OPINION" the Clear Ray works.

Hope this helps others that are confused on the Clear Ray.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

And I'd heard the same thing about temperature dependency but I never heard an actual cutoff spec of 95º but that makes sense based on what the other chem expert said about how it works in hot water, well done. I wonder if the effectiveness reduces even further as the temp increases beyond 95º since most people I've known keep their spas somewhere in the 100-103º range. As far as what you are doing, I also add chlorine after each use (same method for a decade plus) and have recommended that method to people on these sites for years because of my experience with excellent water clarity/clenliness despite pretty heavy use (not as heavy nowadays with my 3 sons older and not home much). I don't think you can draw any conclusion as to how the UV system is working for you because many people like myself have equally good results as well without it. Of course a test with it on and then with it off for a period of time in the same spa, same usage... would be interesting.

In the end if what you are doing is working for you then thats what matters. Maybe all this is much ado about nothing because even if you change an $80 bulb once a year thats not a big deal to many. Its just that myself, just like you, prefer more than "trust me it works" because I know many people are told that this is a major key to their water maintenance (depending on what each dealer says, I'm sure many don't hard sell it) but to me its the chlorine doing the trick and this is like someone telling me a certain pill will get me in shape and all I have to do is "take this pill every morning, then jog 5 miles and eat only 1500 calories for the day and in no time our product will get you fit as a fiddle".

[Dr. Spa]

Excuse me for saying, but you talked to ONE person, that admittitanty knows nothing about hot tubs, whom had key questions, you didn't know the answer to, and feel you've fully researched this?

He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer.

[\quote]

[TdiDave]

I have the clear ray system as well, I can't speak to its effectiveness to any great extent. One thing I have noticed when comparing what other folks add with and without a ozone system. It seems to be on course with folks using a ozone in regards to what is needed after a soak to have some residual before next soak. and with less chlorine usage when the tub isn't used for 2 days or more compared to ozone users.

A possible major negative is the CYA dissipation rate seems to be very fast, still investigating this. But guess that could be a positive for a dichlor only user (maybe that is the point) ?

[yellowdog]

Excuse me for saying, but you talked to ONE person, that admittitanty knows nothing about hot tubs, whom had key questions, you didn't know the answer to, and feel you've fully researched this?

He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer.

[\quote]

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine.

I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make.

This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck.

An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Excuse me for saying, but you talked to ONE person, that admittitanty knows nothing about hot tubs, whom had key questions, you didn't know the answer to, and feel you've fully researched this?

He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer.

[\quote]

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine.

I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make.

This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck.

An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me.

Neither you nor the person you spoke with can conclude the UV system has ANYTHING to do with your good results with your water care. If it was the only thing you were using then you'd have more of a point. I have never had cloudy water issues and have never had a UV system. Granted I've been at this a long time but I've seen hundreds of people with very good water results that don't have UV system. All of us have one thing in common, use of chlorine in the water care routine.

Chlorine is amazing at keeing water clean and clear.

[Spa_Guru]

Like I said in the last thread, none of these widgets are a substitute for maintenance.

Here is what is missing from every one of these items on the market.

Hard Data that any scientist could produce on the exact effectiveness of the device if the studies were ever done.

If I made some device that really rocked, I'd have the evidence in a PDF download on my website.

Not "Consumer Reviews" not "Testimonials" because with a sheaf of those and a sandwich you still only have the sandwich.

How about documentation like "Reduces germ count from "X" to "Y" in "B" period of time" .... you know why you don't see that?

They can't claim it without getting busted for fraud.

Another sales tool to use depending on whether the salesman wants to use the customer's fear of germs, fear of chlorine, or fear of work in the pitch.

Not to be confused with the "Our spa has this widget and no one else does" pitch.

[yellowdog]

Excuse me for saying, but you talked to ONE person, that admittitanty knows nothing about hot tubs, whom had key questions, you didn't know the answer to, and feel you've fully researched this?

He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer.

[\quote]

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine.

I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make.

This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck.

An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me.

Neither you nor the person you spoke with can conclude the UV system has ANYTHING to do with your good results with your water care. If it was the only thing you were using then you'd have more of a point. I have never had cloudy water issues and have never had a UV system. Granted I've been at this a long time but I've seen hundreds of people with very good water results that don't have UV system. All of us have one thing in common, use of chlorine in the water care routine.

Chlorine is amazing at keeing water clean and clear.

Prove to me it doesn't work with hard data. I did my research that helped me understansd more what UV does and doesn't do. The forums have some misinformation and some data backed information. I DO NOT HAVE THE DATA (I did caps to help you ) to prove anything. I wanted to talk to a person who knows more about UV then any of us to find things out. So that is exectly what I did. If you want to take the time and post the place you spoke to and you find something out different then please post it. This is how we all can help people make informed decisions. I do have to agree 100% with you that there really is no hard data saying the Clear Ray works better or as good or does anything as good as other systems.

As you say the UV doesn't do anything to help with the water then I can say my tub must have one heck of a great filtration system. And for a rookie I have this chemical thing down perfect. I say get rid of all ozonators and Clear Ray because they are not needed. I have hard proof of that by how good my water is staying with out any help from anything but chemicals and a filter.

I will keep trying to find actual data to prove or disprove the UV system.

[TdiDave]

Something to think about, not that any of this really has anything to do with a hot tub but:

There are thousands of municipal waste water treatment plants that use UV for their only disenfection of the water, the technology is not new and the science is proven.

But thousands more use Chlorine and have for a long long time, again the science is proven.

A few even use Ozone, though not as many becasue of the cost, again the science is proven.

Chlorine Dioxide is also becoming more popular, maybe that will be the next big thing for hot tubs ?

All of these methods work and work well, if designed and operated under the proper conditions (like flow rates).

Very few municipal drinking water plants use UV or Ozone, just chlorine. Though both UV and Ozone are being introduced more and more to deal with disenfections biproducts of chlorine.

Again i have only had a hot tub for 3 months so im just adding some fuel to the fire per say. but i do like to learn so very interested in more opinions.

[yellowdog]

Something to think about, not that any of this really has anything to do with a hot tub but:

There are thousands of municipal waste water treatment plants that use UV for their only disenfection of the water, the technology is not new and the science is proven.

But thousands more use Chlorine and have for a long long time, again the science is proven.

A few even use Ozone, though not as many becasue of the cost, again the science is proven.

Chlorine Dioxide is also becoming more popular, maybe that will be the next big thing for hot tubs ?

All of these methods work and work well, if designed and operated under the proper conditions (like flow rates).

Very few municipal drinking water plants use UV or Ozone, just chlorine. Though both UV and Ozone are being introduced more and more to deal with disenfections biproducts of chlorine.

Again i have only had a hot tub for 3 months so im just adding some fuel to the fire per say. but i do like to learn so very interested in more opinions.

You make great points. One thing I have learned is some times it is hard for people to except new changes. Funny the first thing I was asked in my FedEx interview way back in the stone age....1981 was " how do you handle changes" You see it all the time things change and people want it the way it was. They say it is proven to work just fine don't change it. New technology comes out and is tried in a different way and people are up in arms because there is no way it can work. They may be right. But what IF it does work and it makes are lives a little easier. For some of you that weren't on the planet yet, when the microwave came out all you would hear was you will get radiation from the darn thing. Don't use it. (Sorry my food in the microwave just got done time to eat. OK I'M back) How did that one turn out. For every new thing that worked there are the ones that didn't, Time will only tell if the UV systems works. To say something don't work because you heard it from some one who heard it from some one ....come on just show why it doesn't work. I just hope I'M still alive to find out the real answer on the UV system because I do eat a lot of things out of the microwave.

Every one have a great Saturday I'm off to do a golf demo.

[Dr. Spa]

The difference between a municipal water system and a spa is that in a spa, the water that goes through the UV unit is then simply dumped back into the main body of water, just diluting it. It is EXTREMELY possible that there's enough bacteria that it's growing and multiplying much faster than the disillusion is reducing it. In a municipal water system, the water that goes through the UV unit is NEVER introduced back into the main supply.

If your spa had a reservoir large enough to hold all the water, and ALL the water was transfered from the spa, through the UV unit, into the reservoir, and then back into the spa, it could work quite well (There's a commercial spa rental business I know of that does it this way, QUITE successfully).

[Roger]

Doc is right. The problem with any of the UV ozone systems in spas is it like taking one contagious infected person out of a room of a million and curing their infection then putting them back in the room.

Ya dump chlorine in and cure the whole room. Thinking your UV/Ozone system is curing the room is a joke.

[TdiDave]

If your spa had a reservoir large enough to hold all the water, and ALL the water was transfered from the spa, through the UV unit, into the reservoir, and then back into the spa, it could work quite well (There's a commercial spa rental business I know of that does it this way, QUITE successfully).

That's a marketing idea, completely chemical free hot tub "for real". 200 gallons of water In a reservoir that is under the main hot tub water of 200 gallons. Use Uzone or UV to clean it.

Of course it would be so expensive and completely impractical but who knows. I make a living selling chlorine and hypo for municipal use, and can say alternatives are at least 2x more costly to operate at that scale.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Excuse me for saying, but you talked to ONE person, that admittitanty knows nothing about hot tubs, whom had key questions, you didn't know the answer to, and feel you've fully researched this?

He then told me the key for using the UV system in the hot tub is the flow rate of the water past the UV system. He asked me what that rate was and I didn't know the answer.

[\quote]

I knew I would get responses like this. Say anything you want..You are right I did talk to only one person that has NOTHING to do with any hot tub company and is not trying to sell me anything. I did talked to a person that knows more about UV systems then any one I have found on the forums. (unless they also work in the field) and he was fine with what the spa companies were saying this system would do again with the right flow rate. You are absolutely correct I didn't have the answer on the flow rate but in his OPINION by the clarity of my water and never seeing any cloudy water the UV was doing what it was designed to do. Hot water with human body waste will cloud up a lot faster then cooler water....his words not mine.

I'm not here to sell anything or say any system is better then another. I do know Ford trucks are better then Chev trucks. I'M just tired of people saying that one system is so far superior or one system does nothing but cost you $79 a year with out having any real proof beside what their feeling is. Now if that person worked with the UV system everyday for a living and said the system is just a placebo then I would have some decisions to make.

This whole thing was for me and me alone. I posted what I learned for others to take with their own research to help with their decision. I'm not telling anyone to buy the Clear Ray or that it will solve their water problem. It makes no difference what you believe we can all agree if you don't use the chemicals right your water will suck.

An absolutely huge thing for me was to have a tub with zero chlorine smell and this is what I have. So I'm happy and really (not to hurt any feelings) is all that matters to me.

Neither you nor the person you spoke with can conclude the UV system has ANYTHING to do with your good results with your water care. If it was the only thing you were using then you'd have more of a point. I have never had cloudy water issues and have never had a UV system. Granted I've been at this a long time but I've seen hundreds of people with very good water results that don't have UV system. All of us have one thing in common, use of chlorine in the water care routine.

Chlorine is amazing at keeing water clean and clear.

Prove to me it doesn't work with hard data. I did my research that helped me understansd more what UV does and doesn't do. The forums have some misinformation and some data backed information. I DO NOT HAVE THE DATA (I did caps to help you ) to prove anything. I wanted to talk to a person who knows more about UV then any of us to find things out. So that is exectly what I did. If you want to take the time and post the place you spoke to and you find something out different then please post it. This is how we all can help people make informed decisions. I do have to agree 100% with you that there really is no hard data saying the Clear Ray works better or as good or does anything as good as other systems.

As you say the UV doesn't do anything to help with the water then I can say my tub must have one heck of a great filtration system. And for a rookie I have this chemical thing down perfect. I say get rid of all ozonators and Clear Ray because they are not needed. I have hard proof of that by how good my water is staying with out any help from anything but chemicals and a filter.

I will keep trying to find actual data to prove or disprove the UV system.

Prove the negative? On the other page you said on several subjects "proove to me it works", same thing here. We shouldn't have to prove it doesn't since the claim on this sytem is that it does.

In the end, it came with your spa so use it, it certainly can't hurt and maybe it does help a little but I'd need more proof to believe in it.

[Dr. Spa]

The problem with any of the UV systems in spas is it like taking one contagious infected person out of a room of a million and curing their infection then putting them back in the room.

This is best analogy I've heard....well done!

[yellowdog]

So again a lot of comments by me and others that has no proof. I did bring up that the expert on the UV system said "it does have a dimension return after 95 degrees" He also said in his professional opinion the system would have a positive affect for what it is being used for in hot tubs.

So we all agree to disagree. He is my major concern. Sundance, Jacuzzi are in the top 5 in hot tubs in most eyes in America. Can we agree on that? If Jacuzzi is so arrogant that they can bring out a system that is "one" of the most important parts of the tub without doing extensive testing to make sure it does what they say it can do.....then in a couple of years the Jacuzzi Corporation will have one large class action lawsuit from people claiming that they were put into an unsafe situation because of miss information by Jacuzzi Sundance.

Being married to an attorney for the Department of Justice I do have insight to what can and will happen from giving miss information to the public that "can" put a person in harms way. Before some one says "well then the company can say it was because the person used the wrong chemicals" That has noting to do with the class action because it has to do with miss leading the public on what they say in their advertising. So time will tell and I will keep anyone who is interested in how the system is performing.

[Dr. Spa]

IF, they have done this extensive testing, why have they not published the results of this scientific study as proof for all to see????

Just looked at "they're" video on youtube....there's a BIG disclaimer at the bottom..."Shown in our lab testing. Refer to local governing water chemistry regulations for specific guidance on maintaining your water".

Jacuzzi's site has very little info on...Sundance though;

The CLEARRAY system uses UV-C technology to neutralize 99.9% of waterborne pathogens.

"Neutralize", not kill. This is a choice of word used to get around EPA laws and requirements. According to the EPA, it doesn't really mean much. In order to use the word "kill", it would have to go through an actual scientific test by the EPA to determine that it meets the requirements of a "sanitizer".

CLEARRAY will also reduce the amount of sanitizer you use in your hot tub*

"Reduce"...if it's "reduces" sanitizer needs by 0.000001%, it has done as claimed.

The little asrtix at the end leads to;

*Our laboratory testing has shown that CLEARRAY can reduce your sanitizer usage up to 50%. Always refer to your state or local government agency standards and regulations on how to maintain your water chemistry.

Ok, it "can", but they specifically instruct people to follow government standards and regulations.

[yellowdog]

IF, they have done this extensive testing, why have they not published the results of this scientific study as proof for all to see????

Just looked at "they're" video on youtube....there's a BIG disclaimer at the bottom..."Shown in our lab testing. Refer to local governing water chemistry regulations for specific guidance on maintaining your water".

Jacuzzi's site has very little info on...Sundance though;

The CLEARRAY system uses UV-C technology to neutralize 99.9% of waterborne pathogens.

"Neutralize", not kill. This is a choice of word used to get around EPA laws and requirements. According to the EPA, it doesn't really mean much. In order to use the word "kill", it would have to go through an actual scientific test by the EPA to determine that it meets the requirements of a "sanitizer".

CLEARRAY will also reduce the amount of sanitizer you use in your hot tub*

000001%, it "Reduce"...if it's "reduces" sanitizer needs by 0.has done as claimed.

The little asrtix at the end leads to;

*Our laboratory testing has shown that CLEARRAY can reduce your sanitizer usage up to 50%. Always refer to your state or local government agency standards and regulations on how to maintain your water chemistry.

Ok, it "can", but they specifically instruct people to follow government standards and regulations.

You are missing my point. If a company knowingly misinforms the consumer about a part of their system and this system is a vital part of the hot tub there will be repercussions. It then has to be pulled off the market because of these false statements no matter how many austerest they have there could be a class action lawsuit. This I know for a FACT.

As far as the company doing test and not publishing them....I have no idea. They put out what they thought was relevant. Go on their website and ask them that question and see what they say. I got a very fast response on my question I asked if any of the tubs were manufactured in the US.

As with anything, time will tell and I will still be sitting in crystal clear water with a smile on my face.

You have to admit this has been fun and maybe something good will come from it.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

IF, they have done this extensive testing, why have they not published the results of this scientific study as proof for all to see????

Just looked at "they're" video on youtube....there's a BIG disclaimer at the bottom..."Shown in our lab testing. Refer to local governing water chemistry regulations for specific guidance on maintaining your water".

Jacuzzi's site has very little info on...Sundance though;

The CLEARRAY system uses UV-C technology to neutralize 99.9% of waterborne pathogens.

"Neutralize", not kill. This is a choice of word used to get around EPA laws and requirements. According to the EPA, it doesn't really mean much. In order to use the word "kill", it would have to go through an actual scientific test by the EPA to determine that it meets the requirements of a "sanitizer".

CLEARRAY will also reduce the amount of sanitizer you use in your hot tub*

000001%, it "Reduce"...if it's "reduces" sanitizer needs by 0.has done as claimed.

The little asrtix at the end leads to;

*Our laboratory testing has shown that CLEARRAY can reduce your sanitizer usage up to 50%. Always refer to your state or local government agency standards and regulations on how to maintain your water chemistry.

Ok, it "can", but they specifically instruct people to follow government standards and regulations.

You are missing my point. If a company knowingly misinforms the consumer about a part of their system and this system is a vital part of the hot tub there will be repercussions. It then has to be pulled off the market because of these false statements no matter how many austerest they have there could be a class action lawsuit. This I know for a FACT.

As far as the company doing test and not publishing them....I have no idea. They put out what they thought was relevant. Go on their website and ask them that question and see what they say. I got a very fast response on my question I asked if any of the tubs were manufactured in the US.

As with anything, time will tell and I will still be sitting in crystal clear water with a smile on my face.

You have to admit this has been fun and maybe something good will come from it.

Hot tub Marketing has always made generic claims. This isn't a paacemaker so all they have to do is use the right wording; proof is overrated for Marketers. Persoanlly I'd need that proof before I just accepted this though its really just harmless markeing fluff.

I will still be sitting in crystal clear water myself thanks to my chlorine granules.

[Dr. Spa]

Vital part of a hot tub? This is about as vital to a hot tub as a radio is to a car.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Vital part of a hot tub? This is about as vital to a hot tub as a radio is to a car.

I couldn't get by without the radio. I'm gonna say its as vital as the STP fuel additive you can buy at NAPA that is supposed to "clean" your engine and give you better gas mileage.

[Roger]

Chlorine or Bromine are vital.

[yellowdog]

So if I have this right, every one is saying you don't need any of these extras that the hot tub companies put in their tubs ACE system, ozonator. All you need....I am new to this but learning fast......good filter system, good circulation pump, and using the right chemicals at the right time. Oops forgot and a good heater or it would just be sitting in cold water. All the other stuff to help the water is just fluff. My point is if the UV is just all smoke and mirrors then a lot of people are proving all the rest of the fluff is not needed.

I still need this question answered. Why would a multi multi million dollar company owned by Apollo management put their reputation on the line with a product "Clear Ray" that did nothing as some are saying? I think I saw 0.0000001 in the amount of chemicals saved by the system would still be OK because it is not 0.0000000. Very true statement.

The definition of neutralize is "render (something) ineffective or harmless by applying an opposite force or effect"

I know I'M a pain in the back side but I want to learn and to bring to here what I learn.

My play job is with Ping Golf. One thing I love about this company is they will not bring out a new product if it is NOT better then what it is replacing. I have seen this first hand with a product they were going to be release but it just didn't approve what it was replacing. So I guess I just have a big problem with a company that was using what is considered the best thing out there at the time, the ozonator and change to a product that DOES NOTHING. Just makes no sense.

[Roger]

Here's how I like to look at it. If you have a good sanitation regimen. Whether you have Ozone/Clear Ray what ever the name of your supplemental system. You will use slightly less sanitizer. But never rely on that. If you dump in some chlorine and then can't get to it for a few days your more likely to have clean water after those few days with a secondary system than without. But that's all. A "secondary" system is good for that. But this is only my opinion. I sanitize with chlorine. Ozone yea whatever. Others rely on there secondary system more.

Ace is a chlorine generator so it is different.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I still need this question answered. Why would a multi multi million dollar company owned by Apollo management put their reputation on the line with a product "Clear Ray" that did nothing as some are saying? I think I saw 0.0000001 in the amount of chemicals saved by the system would still be OK because it is not 0.0000000. Very true statement.

Because it is a very good sales tool that you can tell has been working to a good degree. Thats why they go with it plus they know it isn't going to be detrimental in any way (and even drives some sales of bulbs) so its not like they're gaining up front but are going to have to deal with the ramifications down the line because they're smart enough to have customer use a standard water care system with it. Anything that drives sales gets played in the spa industry. Its mostly a no harm, no foul type thing until its deemed as some type of great elixir when others see it as not doing much of anything for the consumer and ask where the proof is.