Jacuzzi Vs. Sundance

[cokenbeer]

It seems more and more clear that Jims goal is to spread misinformation and tout it as a factual statement. I still don't understand why somebody with nothing helpful or positive to post is still allowed to post.

[Jim_The_Jim]

It seems more and more clear that Jims goal is to spread misinformation and tout it as a factual statement. I still don't understand why somebody with nothing helpful or positive to post is still allowed to post.

Somebody has to speak the truth and let people know what is going on. Do you really want to on a cheaply made product with a company in that much trouble that they can't keep dealers. The nearest Sundance dealer to me, in Metro Denver is 42 miles. It used to be less than than a short car ride.

They make junk and it is an insult to the spa industry. Go look at Costco, and tell me you don't see a better value?

Good Luck.

I am the most positive person on here. I am positive that the spa industry is going to big box stores, Costco, Walmart, and Large internet stores. So, why bother to waste your time. If you look a the Costco threads on here there are many thousands of responses, becasue that is what people want to know about.

This is what is happening. It is as obvious as obvious can get.

Most large Corporations have two sets of books, one goes to the government and the other to the stockholders.

[egbert]

Somebody has to speak the truth and let people know what is going on.

Then please explain to me your statements about 5 years of Jacuzzi /Sundance posting a loss and being almost bankrupt when they were being acquired. Apollo Management sure thought they were worth 1.25 billion when they acquired them.

Do you really want to on a cheaply made product with a company in that much trouble that they can't keep dealers. The nearest Sundance dealer to me, in Metro Denver is 42 miles. It used to be less than than a short car ride.

So the dealer near you closed and you generalize that to the whole world? A quick search showed a dealer about 24 miles away from downtown Denver. The closest dealer to me is 6.7 miles. What does that prove? Absolutly nothing. How many dealers have dropped the Sundance line? Give me some numbers. What trouble are they in? They have seemed to make 75.1 million dollars in the past five years when you said they had been loosing money for the last five years.

Most large Corporations have two sets of books, one goes to the government and the other to the stockholders.

Are you implying that most large corporations are breaking the law and the whole stockmarket is based on made up performance numbers? Has Jacuzzi Brands filed inaccurate information with the SEC? Please show us the proof. If you have proof there would be a major lawsuit from the stock holders and legal action from the SEC. Apollo Management, L.P. went through the books with a fine-tooth comb before closing the deal. I'm sure they found nothing wrong with the books or the deal would have not gone through.

Let's also look at the stock price for the last five years before the were acquired. It seems some people thought they were a good investment.

This "managment" group, Apollo Management L.P., is a private equity L.P. firm with major holdings including GE Advanced Materials, Harrah's Entertainment Inc., Smart & Final Inc., Linens 'n Things, AMC Entertainment, ... I think they know what they are doing when they invest in a company.

[Trigger]

Egbert,

Jim also made similliar claims about Hotsprings cooking thier books, and 4 years ago predicted Artesian would be "out of business in less than one year". The other day in addition to Jacuizzi, Jim claims Sundance is bankrupt. Well time wounds all heels and the only person who stopped making spas is James Arjuna, who we know has made statements the he's going under.

(and then lied to us about it). And now?.... flat broke.

Jim will pee on your leg and tell you it's raining.

[cokenbeer]

Somebody has to speak the truth and let people know what is going on.

Then please explain to me your statements about 5 years of Jacuzzi /Sundance posting a loss and being almost bankrupt when they were being acquired. Apollo Management sure thought they were worth 1.25 billion when they acquired them.

Do you really want to on a cheaply made product with a company in that much trouble that they can't keep dealers. The nearest Sundance dealer to me, in Metro Denver is 42 miles. It used to be less than than a short car ride.

So the dealer near you closed and you generalize that to the whole world? A quick search showed a dealer about 24 miles away from downtown Denver. The closest dealer to me is 6.7 miles. What does that prove? Absolutly nothing. How many dealers have dropped the Sundance line? Give me some numbers. What trouble are they in? They have seemed to make 75.1 million dollars in the past five years when you said they had been loosing money for the last five years.

Most large Corporations have two sets of books, one goes to the government and the other to the stockholders.

Are you implying that most large corporations are breaking the law and the whole stockmarket is based on made up performance numbers? Has Jacuzzi Brands filed inaccurate information with the SEC? Please show us the proof. If you have proof there would be a major lawsuit from the stock holders and legal action from the SEC. Apollo Management, L.P. went through the books with a fine-tooth comb before closing the deal. I'm sure they found nothing wrong with the books or the deal would have not gone through.

Let's also look at the stock price for the last five years before the were acquired. It seems some people thought they were a good investment.

This "managment" group, Apollo Management L.P., is a private equity L.P. firm with major holdings including GE Advanced Materials, Harrah's Entertainment Inc., Smart & Final Inc., Linens 'n Things, AMC Entertainment, ... I think they know what they are doing when they invest in a company.

Claims based on fact don't faze Jim in the least.

I actually did a little research based on his claims. I looked at a Costco spa here in Canada, I'm not sure if they're the same you have in the states, and I can see why there is a market for them. There will always be a market for a bargain shopper and that's great. However, I also looked at several other spas from companies that make "crap", i.e. Hotspring, Jacuzzi, Sundance, etc. and even stopped into my local Arctic dealer.

Problem number 1) When I bought my spa I wet tested about 7 models before deciding on the Sundance. They all worked well but I will say the remote with the stereo in the hotspring was confusing to say the least, the tub itself was great. They ALL seemed to be great quality, and they had models there with all the side panels off so I could check the insides. The shell on the Sundance should hold up well to anything, I even got in and jumped, and I weigh 250 lbs. Costco however... I was alone, unable to test it, the controls felt cheap and flimsy, and when I asked to look inside, they said no.

Number 2) The costco spa was obviously offering no dealer support whatsoever. Since our spa was delivered our dealer stopped by twice. Once to add an ozone system and interface so the jets would be controllable from the remote. A second time to just check and see how we liked it. He also ordered us two new side panels as ours were scratched at some point in transit. I'm more than pleased with the service we're getting. If my spa from costco were scratched it would definitely be more of a hassle.

However, to each his own! The costco spa came in at about 6000 less than our Sundance Maxxus. However when you throw in the extras we recieved for free plus the fact that our dealer picked up our old spa and gave us 2000 for it, it was REALLY a no brainer.

I also did a little research based on claims of their financial hardships, and found reports similar to what Egbert posted earlier. If they are going through such a difficult time why are all financial reports indicating otherwise?