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Bbb Stats About Customer Satisfaction


Veronica

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[quote name=Tom' date='Mar 5 2007, 10:30 AM' post='21185] - Tom, on behalf of the moderating team [/quote]

I would ban him in a heartbeat, but I don't own this board.

B)

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Unless there is a NEW new message board,I think I'm still banned :(

We have installed some serious spam filters on the forum.

As you can see on the pool forum here they need to do the same.

If you want to read the forum, then email me.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

[quote name=Tom' date='Mar 5 2007, 10:30 AM' post='21185] - Tom, on behalf of the moderating team [/quote]

I would ban him in a heartbeat, but I don't own this board.

B)

Chas is the one who needs to be banned for his own good.

:DB)

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Here's another interesting quote from the other board:

"Now, in order to get what we want the spas come in with no equipment pack, untested, and raw. We spend up to five days on one spa fixing all the issues and making it into a product that I know will out last and out perform every spa out there."

So, "up to five days" per spa - let's say an average of four days. Multiply that by 16 spas that are overdue = 64 days to finish them. Divide that by five work days per week = 12.8 weeks worth of work- or, as he said yesterday, three months late!

In other words, of the 16 customers who were expecting their spas in December, not one of them is even started yet!!!

This may explain why:

"It is snowing again, and Mike is having difficulties getting the spas back to Colorado, because of road closings and terrible weather."

So, the spas that are late aren't even in Colorado yet?

That would be a great way to keep a nearly-defunct company afloat - take deposits, but don't spend a single cent of it actually making the product...

Last fall we delivered a SCF to the 5th most wealthy person in the world, I ain't worried about closing the doors of our company.

We are having no problems at the present time and things are running very well. Our company is still in full operation and all rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated. As one of my friends in the spa industry said: "There is always someone who wants real quality". That is why we have oulasted every spa dealer in Colorado who started the same year as us and many who started after and before us.

Just so you will know, we are making a trip all the way down to GA, so we wanted to put on the Florida customers spa on the load, since it was done at the factory (It is being loaded tomorrow). That is why we were waiting for Mike. And the GA customer's project is just now ready, anyway. It worked out perfectly well. We also seem to attract a lot of really nice customers, that is why I am not concerned about your shopping experience. In the past when I come across shoppers, I don't like, I recommend, very nicely, that they buy elsewhere. It is a good position to be in. Also I am not going to put my hands on and work for anybody who does not really deserve or appreciate our work.

Mikes truck is already filled with spas again and leaving tomorrow. You don't know anything about our business really. But you can just keep guessing, because you never will have any inside information. In every company there is debt, and there are bad things. However, the good things are way stronger than the bad things, so we are just fine. We own most of our equipment, and our reputation is close to flawless with 99% of the customers.

Why is that such a big issue for you. If you want a spa to last and out last every other spa with the least amount of troubles, it takes a lot of hard detailed and logically correct work. Our average turn around with out weather problems is 12 weeks, but there are always spas in the que. If people want some off the shelf low quality piece of plastic stuffed with foam, they would never want quality or don't understand what quality is. I always tell people if they want a Haven, but they want it fast, it ain't going to happen, and all aspects of the sale and the delivery are explained in detail to each person. We explain everything and there are no surprises, except that most of the time when they get the spa and have not seen it in person, they always tell me that it is way more than they expected. :D

We have spa owners all across this country and in the UK, Canada, Hawaii, and now Alaska. Many and most have already owned a southern california "masterpiece" and now the want something better and are willing to wait for it.

After people have lived with a hot tub for a while, then read the articles and it states most of what they have gone through with all the exclusive parts, and all the repairs, shell problems, freeze problems, they are allready to get a better spa.

If Chas or Andy erase this it is the same as putting a curse on yourself. When you come up against the truth and you have a hard time dealing with it and you try to stop the truth, it always comes back on you. It is one of God's laws and it never fails. Just wait and see.

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Blah, blah, blah....same ole same old. I have been looking at this stuff from Jimmy for over 6 years. Somehow he thinks his actions are some kind of brialiant sales pitch to draw miracuolusly only the smart and rich customers to his doors and spouting it here somehow makes all the bad things go away. Wow!!!! Everyone else is nuts and Jimmy is the only sane person in the world, theres a word for this kind of mentality Jim and it aint genious!!!!!

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[quote name=Jim_The_Jim' date='Mar 7 2007, 11:39 PM' post='21452]

If Chas or Andy erase this it is the same as putting a curse on yourself. When you come up against the truth and you have a hard time dealing with it and you try to stop the truth, it always comes back on you. It is one of God's laws and it never fails. Just wait and see.

[/quote]

You never fail to amuse. Thanks.

B)

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Last fall we delivered a SCF to the 5th most wealthy person in the world, I ain't worried about closing the doors of our company.

We are having no problems at the present time and things are running very well.

If Chas or Andy erase this it is the same as putting a curse on yourself. When you come up against the truth and you have a hard time dealing with it and you try to stop the truth, it always comes back on you. It is one of God's laws and it never fails. Just wait and see.

James, please stop placing magic voodoo curses on people. It is not good for business, and it is probably against forum guidelines.

As much as I would like to believe you that our business is doing well, we can't lie to people anymore James. Your letters to your brother and sister clearly state otherwise. In fact, it's why John and I are taking over the company. Hopefully under our direction, somehow we can salvage something of value.

Have our attorneys contacted you yet?

What is nice about all this is that eventually everyone will know the truth. Not what you write and post, and not what you think it can be. We can call it "retirement", okay? That way, you can still save some face.

Note: Any magic voodoo curses placed on people are NOT the policy of John Gruver and Mike Blute (Co owner and Spokesperson, respectively for "The Spa Specialist"). Such curses, magic spells, incantations and voodoo spells et all, are the sole opinion of James Arjuna and do not reflect the attitudes and policies of other business owners. Potential customers and interested 3rd parties can contact me for further information.

Thank you and have a nice day.

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Last fall we delivered a SCF to the 5th most wealthy person in the world, I ain't worried about closing the doors of our company.

Translation: 6 months ago you sold a spa.

How does qualifying the statement that it was the 5th wealthiest person in the world, (wich, I happen to know it wasn't ) have any bearing on anything else? Did you super high end over charge him? Are the profits from a sale several months ago that great it can sustain your rebranding shop for many months to come?

Sometimes you say the queerest things.

Anyhow, I've read the Mike Blute letters. You in your own words, as posted in another thread in this forum clearly state you are going bankrupt. I know it probabaly was a mistake for you to put that in writing and then blast it out via email, but there it is.

I just feel bad for potential customers who you are trying to wrangle in and give you deposits and buy into your service B.S.

12 weeks to build a spa? (and that's the most optimistic estimate on a clean time line)

well, yea, when you carry absolutey no inventory and no parts and everything is ordered off the deposit, and build them as "one offs". Yea, it can be that ...long...or actually...quick. And folks surely shouldn't see that as ANY reflection on the fiancial stability of the business. :blink:

jim, did you know I run a yacht building business? Yup. Give me $300,000 up front and several months and I'll deliver you a custom yacht. I am the oldest most successful yacht dealer on the internet. I bet you didn't know that, did you? Can I "build" one for you?

Nor should the fact you had a head cold in December and it held up delivery for an already late and concerned customer give rise to concern.

I hope you don't get a flat tire, an ear ache, or bounce a check, because it will mean some poor customer is screwed.

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If either of you start to feel a sharp pain in your side I'll bet it's from the needles he sticks in your voodoo dolls.

You might want to hang a garlic necklace around your computer monitor the next few days as a precautionary measure.

Garlic, for an additioanal $450 upcharge is optional on the SCF.

Please allow an additional 5-7 weeks for this enhancement. (More if it snows, or if we are still at war with Canada.)

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(More if it snows, or if we are still at war with Canada.)

I hear that each of the NHL franchises are considering fielding two teams, a US team and a Canadian team, to avoid the hurdles of crossing the war torn US/Canada border.

The Boston Bruins, for instance, would just have their "Canadian Bruins" squad play when they are scheduled for games against the Maple Leafs in Toronto without having to send their boys up North and worry that they can make it back safely. The Canadian teams would likewise have a US squad to play games down here (though without a Tim Horton's around they may get home sick and flounder).

I hope some day we can get back to where traveling into Canada isn't such a HUGE hassle. B)

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Trigger; You are such a baby. You act like like a two year old child throwing a tantrum over what.

Friggin fantasy.

Do you really think I am going to give any of my brother any real information? This guy is absolutely nuts.

He has to take handful of pills several times a day just so he can cope and not put his fist through his computer. My brother has been on drugs for 45 years. Self medicated most of those years by shooting up speed, meth and anything else he could take.

You are pretty funny. The reason why people are distrustful of the industry is, obvious. All the bull crap they use to fool people out of their money, then the products don't perform anywhere near as well as the sales pitch.

You are one of their victims. Just wait and you will understand from personal experience.

We get calls from people who own that crap asking for help.

That is how I know they are destroying their own reputation.

My site which is full of facts has been read by over 1,000,000 people in depth. There are 40 people a day who read 30 pages or deeper as well, those are our customers.

Our tune was heard over 7,000 times yesterday.

http://www.soundclikc.com/havenhead

Are you Chitin' me? My Brother does NOT lie and most certainly does "bring honesty, integrity, cedibility, substance, truth, justice, the American Way, Etc. to the Spa Industry! Make no doubt about it!

(Please ignore this post as it comes from an insane person!)

Jimmy is a perfect person!!!!!! He loves to spread viscious, henous, "Abonimable" lies about anyone who challenges the "existance" of his perfection.

So don't try it. You cannot win!

I see he does not know all the various names for Methamphetamine Hydrochloride . . . Meth, Crank, Crystal, Speed, Cross Tops, Uppers, Kick Starters, Christmas Trees, Dexies, Bennies, and of course weight loss Pills.

His vocabulary is lacking as well as his sanity.

I better start shooten' dope so I can live up to his descriptions of me?

Hello,

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is John Gruver. I am James Arjuna’s older brother and co-owner of “The Spa Specialist” makers of Haven spas.

Some of you may already know me, as James has used my name countless times to add credibility to the engineering and scientific principles he attempts to apply to Haven hot tubs. I would like to take this opportunity to state that I do not endorse or subscribe to the principles and methods that James Arjuna claims. His methods, understanding of principles and statements are flawed and misleading. They have little or no basis in actual engineering principles, and cannot be taken seriously.

For example, according to the consensus of my references, still, dry air has an “R” (Resistance to heat flow or “Insulation”) value or factor of “6.25!” which is not “Infinite!“ There is no such thing as “Infinite R value insulation!” Search the internet if you would like to confirm this.

Additionally, I would like to apologize on behalf of the Gruver/Arjuna families to other spa professionals, engineers, customers and the internet community at large for my brother’s behavior and shady business practices. Without getting into too much detail, let me just say that James had a very troubled and dysfunctional upbringing, and we, his family are encouraging him to seek professional help.

Lately, there has been much rumor and speculation that James Arjuna and our business “The Spa Specialist” are in severe financial trouble, and our ability to produce, deliver, and service our products is at a severely high risk. As co-business owner, and a person of personal integrity, I feel it is my obligation to inform you that, unfortunately, I have every indication to believe this to be true.

James has indicated he and the company are financially bankrupt and on the verge of default.

Another owner of the business has already declared bankruptcy and left the company.

My wife and I are currently trying to work with James to get a clear understanding of exactly what has been happening and to everyone’s embarrassment; James has propagated lies and false statements to cover up what we believe to be fraud. We have contacted the IRS, The State of Colorado, and I am seeking legal help to assist us in straighten this problem out.

If any one has any questions I will be more than happy to openly discuss any details about the Spa Specialist and this current situation here, in an open forum or privately in e-mail or phone.

Thank you,

John Barnett Gruver

{poster's home address and phone deleted by mod - contact poster for this information}

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Last fall we delivered a SCF to the 5th most wealthy person in the world, I ain't worried about closing the doors of our company.

Is that the 5th most wealthy including or excluding heads of state? If it does not include heads of state, then your customer was Lakshmi Mittal of the UK & India's Mttal Steel Company. If it includes heads of state, then you're talking about Paul Allen of Microsoft. So if I contacted both of them, what would they say?

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Is that the 5th most wealthy including or excluding heads of state? If it does not include heads of state, then your customer was Lakshmi Mittal of the UK & India's Mttal Steel Company. If it includes heads of state, then you're talking about Paul Allen of Microsoft. So if I contacted both of them, what would they say?

Jim,

Here's the top 25 wealthiest people in the world in 2006 according to Forbes; go for it.

I suggest you concentrate on getting one into the hands of one of the 5 Walton family members who own spots 17 through 21. Maybe if the first one is happy you can get the others to purchase. Heck, they probably won't bat an eye at the price tag. You may want to offer them a family plan!

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/Rank_1.html

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This is crazy. I have been a factory rep. for Coleman, Emerald, LA, Dimension One Spas. So let me shake down the numbers....

Hot Springs- # of complaints is relative to HOW MANY SPAS they sell- go look up their numbers and you will see that their ratio would be the lowest. Now if we are going to measure the industry, lets look at some other product that involves the same type of manufacturing process. I am open for suggestions.

This industry is not going to attract a rocket scientist, electrical engineers, etc. You will not find anyone from companies like Lockheed or Microsoft looking for a job in the "spa" industry. Sad thing is, if you took a company like Hot Springs or Jacuzzi and looked at the books, they are probably the most profitable division in their whole portfolio. Go look around at a company like MAAX and see what spas have done for their portion of the overall picture.

Be wary of the BBB or Consumer Digest. Many manufacturers that I have worked for said "membership" has its advantages.

So if you took the # of spas sold yearly by each manufacturer, vs, the number of complaints and equated that formula, the results could suprise you.

So in all fairness here is my prediction for the future of the spa industry

- Imports will come from China

- Quality will be better

- Market share could increase

Profits contunue to decline in the US auto industry and imports will finish it off. The final ax will swing and be ready to say goodbye to Ford, Chrysler and GM because the imports are here to stay.

I am not slamming the US but here is what happens- we get lazy and then someone else with a better work ethic, better product etc, comes in and does well. That is why this is a free country. How many "eat your foreign car" stickers did you see on broken down US cars in gas lines in the 70's?

Joe American has a big reality to face soon. The spa industry will probably no longer be able to survive once the imports come and trust me, they are coming.

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[quote name=AndyB' date='Mar 9 2007, 06:24 AM' post='21585] Joe American has a big reality to face soon. The spa industry will probably no longer be able to survive once the imports come and trust me, they are coming.[/quote]

I have been watching the imported tubs from China. I have no choice - they send me emails, letters and faxes all the time. They are looking to set up dealers. But what I have seen has not interested me yet. And they really need to have some Americans go over and help them write their communications - "All your Bypass Filtration are belong to us" just doesn't make it when dealing with a high-end commodity. Job possibility for somebody who wants to relocate?

I currently sell an imported spa. Caldera.

I think that is the way the large tub makers can deal with any pressure that comes from the East - and I think we'll see more and more tub makers make the move.

B)

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