Complete Novice - Buying A (Gasp..) Master Spa Twilight 8.25

[noybman]

So, at our states fair, "The Big E" (Eastern States Exposition) - The New England fair - Jaccuzzi + Sundance (Jelly Belly), Master Spa (not an expo, just themselves), and some other brand MAAX SPA's were all there with a few tubs running and each had a tent with ~20 tubs on display.

All three wanted to ask withing 30 seconds, "...how much are you looking to spend and are you looking to buy today..."; well at least they were up front huh? Ha.

Let me tell you, my wife and I have looked at these shows for over 10 years, We have talked about buying one for a very long time. Over these years we have seen the price of tubs steadily climb. Ten years ago 3-6k was the generic range. This year 6-9k was the generic range.

Now what I dont get is why these things are so expensive (I mean this in gest). it is a tub, with holes drilled in it, and tubing attached to the holes through a pump and a heating and a filter unit. thats about it. not much more to it. You put water in it, maintain it, and it will serve its useful life - or will it?

I work as an engineer. I view this as a luxury and keep that in mind when considering a purchase. I get that it mainly comes down to material material material (and quality therein); qualiy in materials, in company support, and overall design.

After looking at the Master Spa's (and window shopping for 10 years), I dont see why people hate Master so much on this forum (strictly from a design perspective). I look at the guts of all the brands I have seen over the years and the guts of the Master. To be honest, I dislike them all.

With respect to the Master, they weld their frame and powder coat it. The shell is no thicker or thinner than competitor 'x', their jets are a fair solid design when compared to most every other style I have seen. They have pumps, an as a mechanical component, its going to die some day (preferrably more than 5 years of use). They run a circulator 24/7 (yuck) but this is a hot tub, and is expected to sit in freezing weather. Now all that said, they do have a warranty, and in researching it, and talking to people, they do resolve most complaints.

Now we talk price, their sales persons were a joke. I was astonsihed, but when we talk $, they inflate their starting price, then drop it down to make it sound good - in the end, its as fair of a price as anyone else is charging in fact, I did get a slight deal. My tub is being "factory built" and delivered. I need to finalize my 3 day commitment and swallow the decision.

So all this said, and flame retardent gear in hand - speaking only to the item in hand, not the sales people or dirty tricks used to get a consumers money, why (factually in current like kind design) is this product less quality than caldera, jacuzzzi, sundance, etc?

Shoot--> &(thank you)

[Apollo217]

My biggest problem with master is who services it under warranty when you buy from their traveling road show? If prices were comparable why not the hotspring (teddy bear pools) or the jacuzzi/sundance dealer. At least buying from them you know that they have a full service center as both jelly belly and teddy bear have good reps around tese parts

[noybman]

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name.

I want to know from the experienced people here, especially those with first hand knowledge of RECENT designs and manufacturing "quality" how does Master measure up? Please provide your apples to apples comparison.

Now, to answer the q above about the price, I actually like the design, layout, and fit of the Master twilight more-so than what was offered by many others. I like the jet design, I like the foot massage design, but justifications aside for why I like what they did, I want people to refute, compare, and speak to the only things that really matter....

Jet design (endurance, function, fit, performance) vs. competitor 'x'

Shell (thickness, material, life expectancy, warranty, weathering) vs. 'x'

Electrical Controls " ... "

Pumps (and circ/economy modes) "..."

Heater (lifespan, function, etc) "..."

Filter cost "..."

Insulation... vs. 'x'

Maintenance (true cost to own) "..."

seals, pvc piping, lighting seals (poor/sloppy cuts, to much to little sealant etc)

ease of accessing foamed areas vs. competitors 'x' for servicing "..."

framing quality etc..

At the end of the day, these are the things that drive the need for a repair call, and since a hot tub has many mechanical parts, and operates in temperature extremes, they will all fail regardless of the name behind it.

[Roger]

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name.

I want to know from the experienced people here, especially those with first hand knowledge of RECENT designs and manufacturing "quality" how does Master measure up? Please provide your apples to apples comparison.

Now, to answer the q above about the price, I actually like the design, layout, and fit of the Master twilight more-so than what was offered by many others. I like the jet design, I like the foot massage design, but justifications aside for why I like what they did, I want people to refute, compare, and speak to the only things that really matter....

Jet design (endurance, function, fit, performance) vs. competitor 'x'

Shell (thickness, material, life expectancy, warranty, weathering) vs. 'x'

Electrical Controls " ... "

Pumps (and circ/economy modes) "..."

Heater (lifespan, function, etc) "..."

Filter cost "..."

Insulation... vs. 'x'

Maintenance (true cost to own) "..."

seals, pvc piping, lighting seals (poor/sloppy cuts, to much to little sealant etc)

ease of accessing foamed areas vs. competitors 'x' for servicing "..."

framing quality etc..

At the end of the day, these are the things that drive the need for a repair call, and since a hot tub has many mechanical parts, and operates in temperature extremes, they will all fail regardless of the name behind it.

They sell a lot of them here in Minnesota. The MPLS St Paul area has a bunch of stores and they are very popular. Not because of their design, function or energy efficiency. Because they are less money than most of the higher quality brands. They are considered a middle of the road brand.

Your not asking for peoples or tech's experience so my opinion won't mean anything to you. Your asking for a comprehensive analysis of the differences and I can't do that for you. I have worked on a bunch of them and a bunch of other brands and you are right. There is a big difference between PVC, jets, pumps, heaters and all components used in one brand versus the other. I think Master makes a fine middle of the pack tub if that's what you are looking for. However if you want high end and energy efficient. Pick a different brand.

[Ja4496]

I went with a Watkins(hot spot) 1. The price was right. 2. Reputable dealer with experience 3. One of the most popular brands so there are always people that know where a failed component or problem might be. In my exp most things don't break under warranty so its the after warranty serviceability that is more important. What does this error code mean or where is this relay etc... any tub is going to be good for you, even a Costco or Lowes tub. You're asking for people to compare ford Chevy and renault. Renault aren't bad cars, just not the support system for them that you get with a major name like a Watkins or jacuzzi or marquis tub. As long as you are happy who cares. Just enjoy it. You don't get to the top and stay at the top by making a sham product in this day and age.

[noybman]

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name.

I want to know from the experienced people here, especially those with first hand knowledge of RECENT designs and manufacturing "quality" how does Master measure up? Please provide your apples to apples comparison.

Now, to answer the q above about the price, I actually like the design, layout, and fit of the Master twilight more-so than what was offered by many others. I like the jet design, I like the foot massage design, but justifications aside for why I like what they did, I want people to refute, compare, and speak to the only things that really matter....

Jet design (endurance, function, fit, performance) vs. competitor 'x'

Shell (thickness, material, life expectancy, warranty, weathering) vs. 'x'

Electrical Controls " ... "

Pumps (and circ/economy modes) "..."

Heater (lifespan, function, etc) "..."

Filter cost "..."

Insulation... vs. 'x'

Maintenance (true cost to own) "..."

seals, pvc piping, lighting seals (poor/sloppy cuts, to much to little sealant etc)

ease of accessing foamed areas vs. competitors 'x' for servicing "..."

framing quality etc..

At the end of the day, these are the things that drive the need for a repair call, and since a hot tub has many mechanical parts, and operates in temperature extremes, they will all fail regardless of the name behind it.

They sell a lot of them here in Minnesota. The MPLS St Paul area has a bunch of stores and they are very popular. Not because of their design, function or energy efficiency. Because they are less money than most of the higher quality brands. They are considered a middle of the road brand.

Your not asking for peoples or tech's experience so my opinion won't mean anything to you. Your asking for a comprehensive analysis of the differences and I can't do that for you. I have worked on a bunch of them and a bunch of other brands and you are right. There is a big difference between PVC, jets, pumps, heaters and all components used in one brand versus the other. I think Master makes a fine middle of the pack tub if that's what you are looking for. However if you want high end and energy efficient. Pick a different brand.

Actually, I am asking for tech & others peoples experience. You are right, Im looking for as much as I can get, but opinions based on experience are certainly welcome.

I made the comment that "... all brands will fail ..." (its a fact of life). With that said, support of a product for 10/7/5 years is a need. I cant be silly enough to ignore that. but when it comes to energy efficiency I am appalled by their choice to "just run a circ pump 24/7". On the plus side, at least its simple! haha.

Do Master Spa's shells crack sooner than their counterparts? Is cold weather less kind to master than to brand 'x'? These are certainly area's I assume people can talk to.

thanks for the reply and keeping the flame low.

[noybman]

I went with a Watkins(hot spot) 1. The price was right. 2. Reputable dealer with experience 3. One of the most popular brands so there are always people that know where a failed component or problem might be. In my exp most things don't break under warranty so its the after warranty serviceability that is more important. What does this error code mean or where is this relay etc... any tub is going to be good for you, even a Costco or Lowes tub. You're asking for people to compare ford Chevy and renault. Renault aren't bad cars, just not the support system for them that you get with a major name like a Watkins or jacuzzi or marquis tub. As long as you are happy who cares. Just enjoy it. You don't get to the top and stay at the top by making a sham product in this day and age.

First, thanks for the reply. I have seen much of the feel for spa's in general here go towards "get what you like" first and foremost. And ofc, with master, buyer be on your own. I do think you can get to the top selling a sham product, think about that, what is in the KFC meat, McD's chicken tenders, etc lol... you dont want to know, but they are rich indeed! Anyhow, I've read a lot of the posts here, certainly not all, and I was hoping someone(s) could tell me that "oh, Master jets are really bad", or "the shells crack in winter" etc.

I'll be honest, I hope that during the warranty Master actually provides me with parts if I need them. I hope after the warranty I can get parts if I need them. (it might be wise to consider the most likely candidates and grab a spare before they become obsolete), or the company flops or changes names, etc. (ugh).

[Roger]

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name.

I want to know from the experienced people here, especially those with first hand knowledge of RECENT designs and manufacturing "quality" how does Master measure up? Please provide your apples to apples comparison.

Now, to answer the q above about the price, I actually like the design, layout, and fit of the Master twilight more-so than what was offered by many others. I like the jet design, I like the foot massage design, but justifications aside for why I like what they did, I want people to refute, compare, and speak to the only things that really matter....

Jet design (endurance, function, fit, performance) vs. competitor 'x'

Shell (thickness, material, life expectancy, warranty, weathering) vs. 'x'

Electrical Controls " ... "

Pumps (and circ/economy modes) "..."

Heater (lifespan, function, etc) "..."

Filter cost "..."

Insulation... vs. 'x'

Maintenance (true cost to own) "..."

seals, pvc piping, lighting seals (poor/sloppy cuts, to much to little sealant etc)

ease of accessing foamed areas vs. competitors 'x' for servicing "..."

framing quality etc..

At the end of the day, these are the things that drive the need for a repair call, and since a hot tub has many mechanical parts, and operates in temperature extremes, they will all fail regardless of the name behind it.

They sell a lot of them here in Minnesota. The MPLS St Paul area has a bunch of stores and they are very popular. Not because of their design, function or energy efficiency. Because they are less money than most of the higher quality brands. They are considered a middle of the road brand.

Your not asking for peoples or tech's experience so my opinion won't mean anything to you. Your asking for a comprehensive analysis of the differences and I can't do that for you. I have worked on a bunch of them and a bunch of other brands and you are right. There is a big difference between PVC, jets, pumps, heaters and all components used in one brand versus the other. I think Master makes a fine middle of the pack tub if that's what you are looking for. However if you want high end and energy efficient. Pick a different brand.

Actually, I am asking for tech & others peoples experience. You are right, Im looking for as much as I can get, but opinions based on experience are certainly welcome.

I made the comment that "... all brands will fail ..." (its a fact of life). With that said, support of a product for 10/7/5 years is a need. I cant be silly enough to ignore that. but when it comes to energy efficiency I am appalled by their choice to "just run a circ pump 24/7". On the plus side, at least its simple! haha.

Do Master Spa's shells crack sooner than their counterparts? Is cold weather less kind to master than to brand 'x'? These are certainly area's I assume people can talk to.

thanks for the reply and keeping the flame low.

They seem to be a bit lacking on insulation and can be costly to operate in freezing temps. There shells are no different than 100 other middle of the road tubs.

[noybman]

I noted their insulation is a soft impressionable type (vs. a solid rigid type once hardened). Is this a good thing?

[Roger]

I noted their insulation is a soft impressionable type (vs. a solid rigid type once hardened). Is this a good thing?

The lower density foam makes good insulation also. They just need more of it don't you think?

[spawn]

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name.

Not sure that I understand. Are you saying that if you have a problem with your new tub you will be on your own to do the repair? Did you ask Master how warranty repairs will be handled (who)? You're thinking is that if they just send you the parts after you troubleshoot it that you'll do the fix, and Master agrees? You must be pretty remote. How far are you from the dealers Apollo217 mentioned?

A friend of mine has a Master tub he bought at a show that he has been satisifed with. I think the general consnsus is that Master makes a decent tub.

Just a comment on opinions on Master. When you say "I dont see why people hate Master so much on this forum (strictly from a design perspective)" - I don't thnk people do. I think the negative opinions are not about tub design or quality.

I note that you believe that you got a bit of a deal on your tub. I would bet that everyone who buys a Master tub at a show feels that he got a good deal. If everyone gets a good deal, does anyone get a good deal? Did you look at what you could buy for that price from other dealers?

Sorry if my thoughts / comments are not helpful, just knid of "thinking out loud". Bottom line - you seem to know what to expect with regard to service. Tub quality, if not top tier, is not to be feared.

[noybman]

I noted their insulation is a soft impressionable type (vs. a solid rigid type once hardened). Is this a good thing?

The lower density foam makes good insulation also. They just need more of it don't you think?

Yes I do. I have no idea what to expect cost wise in winter months but Im sure to find out... and will happily (or painfully) share

[jwarcop]

Hi!

I have a Master Spa 8.25, bought from a dealer doing a state fair (from way up north), here in the middle of Georgia. Everyone has their own reasons and or situations so let me explain mine. I'll get to my personal experience with the product here in a few moments - I very much like the product.

#1 There are zero local dealers for any brand of spa or pool to help assist locally.

This meant I chose whatever brand I liked when it comes to features. Since service wouldn't matter regardless of brand I went with this tub. Dealing with these "customer-no-service" types of oranizations it can take some social engineering at times to get help with certain things. I had to take this into consideration when making a purchase like this.

#2 Beware of the "promises" from the dealer at the fair - they make a lot of them. I fully understood they were in sales mode and churning through EVERY promise was not going to be a easy trip. For example- I was told I'd recieve extra filters with the purchase and that never happened.

The tub arrived on a 52' truck without a lift-gate. The installer that came down said he specifically requested a lift-gate so we had to do some creative engineering to get it out of the big truck, on to our smaller truck, drive it around back and drop it to the ground. 2" PVC makes great work to move this thing around into position and the two of us "dropped" it into place.

I didn't necesairly like 100% the sales process and the order delivery/installation - but dang I've really enjoyed the product.

The product -

Real strong jets - pretty much everyone I've had in the tub has to dial it back a little. With the equipment that is inside the tub it makes it a more "personable" experiece. Showing individuals they can make it as comfortable as they like has been awesome.

The tub has a Sleep, Economy, and Standard mode - with energy rates they are here in Georgia I left it in Standard mode through Winter. Obviously it has considerable draw on the power bill and you need to take that into consideration. In the Sleep and Economy modes I have not that the re-circ pump WILL stop.

I've found the insulation to be adequate and even below freezing temperatures I could always get in at whatever temp I wanted. We obvisouly do not have that hard of a winter down here but it gets cold (to us).

I deal a lot with aquariums so the bulkheads, plumbing and pump connections are solid. I see nothing out of the ordinary here. The pumps push water around and if anything ever happens to the pumbing I can fix it. The insulation does cover a fair amount of the plumbing so if you go digging around in it you have to replace it. it's a spray in foam type insulation you would find inside commercial freezer walls.

Cons:

The filters (but this really isn't a "tub" issue). I'm currently searching for quality replacement filters. The way they work in the 8.25 and the filters I have they seem to "seperate" the top from the plastic running inside the pleats. This means BE CAREFULL overtightning the filters. Even after a short period of time you'll go to remove the filter, the "top" plastic will break from the inside plastic and then you're stuck.

The diverter from chair 1/2 to the feet seems to be warping a bit. it is still functional but it seems like it could break off within the next year.

The diverter valves can be loud for example if you want 50/50 distribution from chair1/2 to the feet it can make a considerable amount of air noise. This isn't an issue when the tub contains more people as it covers over this valve.

I'm already getting some fading on the pillows and drink holder above the filter box. Not a big deal but only after 1 year with a covered tub I was expecting maybe a little more.

Maintenance has been very easy. I'm paranoid about water quality and change it each month. Drop the side panel off, drain it, swap filters (I did buy an extra set), refill and put in "my start-up" batch of chemicals. I run the tub year round even in our 100 degree heat because the water will always stay cooler than air and it makes a nice relaxing cool-tub when needed.

So far I've been and my family has been VERY pleased with the product. It is a 100% luxury item here in the south so this thing blows out any local hot-tub competition. ---And I like having the best on the block--. :-)

Feel free to PM me more if I've missed something or you have more specific questions. This month I'll have the product for a year and can go snap pictures if you like. cheers

[jwarcop]

Additional thoughts -

Warranty - I built up a slight rapport when talking with those guys and never made anything a real big deal. They said I could call up and if I was comfortable with the repair they could simply ship me the parts. It would be cost prohibitive for me to expect them to drive WAY out here or in fact take airfare to do certain repairs.

Mind you - I've worked on computer and networking equipment for many years so dropping out the control box and putting in a new one is quite simple "TO ME". The heater and pumps are very easily accessible with quicklock fittings. Water pumps should last a considerable amount of time. I have a feeling the pump may be oversized and the plumbing may be exerting too much head pressure therefore producing strong jets but putting uncessary wear on the pump.

I did get a small shell chip from delivery. Since it was on the TOP of the tub (it comes on its side) it was not found until it was dropped. The installer did mention he could get me a repair kit - but that didn't happen either.

All in all I understand this isn't the best industry to work with - we all have heard the horror stories in the pool and spa industry and its quite shamful. A good solid company could step forward IMO and wipe the floor with some of these guys. I have to seperate the "dealer" from Master Spas though and I have found someone about an hour away I "could" work with on service but would have to pay a premium to get them here.

Like I said earlier - the dealer sales guy and the installer guy that came down were OK in customer service and a little to fast to hit the paperwork, grab the check, and call it a day IMO.

[noybman]

Additional thoughts -

Warranty - I built up a slight rapport when talking with those guys and never made anything a real big deal. They said I could call up and if I was comfortable with the repair they could simply ship me the parts. It would be cost prohibitive for me to expect them to drive WAY out here or in fact take airfare to do certain repairs.

Mind you - I've worked on computer and networking equipment for many years so dropping out the control box and putting in a new one is quite simple "TO ME". The heater and pumps are very easily accessible with quicklock fittings. Water pumps should last a considerable amount of time. I have a feeling the pump may be oversized and the plumbing may be exerting too much head pressure therefore producing strong jets but putting uncessary wear on the pump.

I did get a small shell chip from delivery. Since it was on the TOP of the tub (it comes on its side) it was not found until it was dropped. The installer did mention he could get me a repair kit - but that didn't happen either.

All in all I understand this isn't the best industry to work with - we all have heard the horror stories in the pool and spa industry and its quite shamful. A good solid company could step forward IMO and wipe the floor with some of these guys. I have to seperate the "dealer" from Master Spas though and I have found someone about an hour away I "could" work with on service but would have to pay a premium to get them here.

Like I said earlier - the dealer sales guy and the installer guy that came down were OK in customer service and a little to fast to hit the paperwork, grab the check, and call it a day IMO.

I think my experience thus far matches your precisely, except I haven't even received a tub yet.

I have 20+ years of computer and networking experience, and I too discussed the option of "doing it myself" if need be. They seemed to be ok with that as is in your case, but I wont know for real until we come to that pass. As far as your winters go vs. mine, I am still a bit worried, but to be honest, I'd be worried no matter what the brand, Hey, water freezes lol.

I will report my experience. Im very skeptical the delivery will go smoothly, but it can, they can drive that 52' truck right up in the yard... I wonder if they'll be able to drive it back out.

Thank you for your description. 1 year into it and its fading and warping, and you are not in the coldest up north area as I am. Perhaps this will work out to be a good starter tub. Stay tuned.

[n1oty]

Good luck with quality and support. I finalized a repair for a customer today on a 2 1/2 year old Master Spa with a failed x400825 circ pump, also known as a Laing Thermotech E14 pump. It failed electrically, not due to chemical damage. The problem for the customer is that the pump I installed today is the 4th circ pump this tub has seen since birth. The tech for the dealership replaced the circ pump twice under warranty and the controller once. The customer is now out of warranty by a few months, so we both tried contacting Master Spa to see if they would at least help with the part. I did Master Spa authorized service as an independent for over 20 years, beginning in the pre-Master days when they were called Fort Wayne Pools and ending in 2009. Master basically told me to go pound sand. The customer called and emailed tech support and has never received a reply. I've advised this customer to consider filing a complaint with the Attorney General here in Mass. At least we have fairly strong consumer protections.

Count me with the techs that advise you to avoid this brand.

John

[jwarcop]

Understandably warranty is only great up to a certain point and in fact you said the customer is out of warranty. Without going through an explaination of planned obsolescense - doesn't it makes sense that a manufacuturer can choose to or decide not to maintain service for a products entire lifetime?

Master Spa told you to go pound sand because the warranty ended. Without going into a big debate about warranties that type of reaction is to be expected. They offered the warranty, it expired, and you get no more free parts. File a complaint with the company because the warranty expired and you want free parts still? Unless I'm missing something here...

Just like buying parts for my car at this point in its life. The warranty is expired and I'm not about to walk back into the dealership and buy OEM. The Internet has reliable sources for obtaining equipment that can match and/or beat these components inside. I've bought water pumps from plumbing supply stores for sprinkler systems and online from aquarium supply shops for 1000+ gallon salt water reefs. I'm pretty sure I can find one to replace the low flow recirc pump inside my hot tub when the warranty expires.

I don't think 1 experience of an "expired warranty" should mean that people should avoid the brand completely.

I'm not an advocate for "customer-no-service" but don't expect more than what they've already provided. That is pie on your face, not theirs. If you don't like that a warranty expires, find another brand that maintains/services their product for life.

[jwarcop]

Additional thoughts -

Warranty - I built up a slight rapport when talking with those guys and never made anything a real big deal. They said I could call up and if I was comfortable with the repair they could simply ship me the parts. It would be cost prohibitive for me to expect them to drive WAY out here or in fact take airfare to do certain repairs.

Mind you - I've worked on computer and networking equipment for many years so dropping out the control box and putting in a new one is quite simple "TO ME". The heater and pumps are very easily accessible with quicklock fittings. Water pumps should last a considerable amount of time. I have a feeling the pump may be oversized and the plumbing may be exerting too much head pressure therefore producing strong jets but putting uncessary wear on the pump.

I did get a small shell chip from delivery. Since it was on the TOP of the tub (it comes on its side) it was not found until it was dropped. The installer did mention he could get me a repair kit - but that didn't happen either.

All in all I understand this isn't the best industry to work with - we all have heard the horror stories in the pool and spa industry and its quite shamful. A good solid company could step forward IMO and wipe the floor with some of these guys. I have to seperate the "dealer" from Master Spas though and I have found someone about an hour away I "could" work with on service but would have to pay a premium to get them here.

Like I said earlier - the dealer sales guy and the installer guy that came down were OK in customer service and a little to fast to hit the paperwork, grab the check, and call it a day IMO.

I think my experience thus far matches your precisely, except I haven't even received a tub yet.

I have 20+ years of computer and networking experience, and I too discussed the option of "doing it myself" if need be. They seemed to be ok with that as is in your case, but I wont know for real until we come to that pass. As far as your winters go vs. mine, I am still a bit worried, but to be honest, I'd be worried no matter what the brand, Hey, water freezes lol.

I will report my experience. Im very skeptical the delivery will go smoothly, but it can, they can drive that 52' truck right up in the yard... I wonder if they'll be able to drive it back out.

Thank you for your description. 1 year into it and its fading and warping, and you are not in the coldest up north area as I am. Perhaps this will work out to be a good starter tub. Stay tuned.

The model has freeze protection. At any time if the water temp is detected below 44F the pumps/heater will activate to bring to 45F. Hopefully you do not lose power during an ice storm for an extended period of time.

On the fading - it's only the interior vinyl pillows. I think my wife at times has been too overzealous with the sanitizer and I think that is showing. The exterior skirting and shell are still like new from the factory.

The warping is only a single diverter value and everything else is fine. I'm not too worried at the moment since the valve is designed to be "overturned" without breaking. My kids have leaned on it turning it thinking it does more and nothing has happend "yet".

[jwarcop]

Another thing - I would recommend an initial fill and drain. it came fairly dirty from the factory and the manufacturing oils were still present. Fill/shock+flush/drain.. and then do a start-up. That will help cut out the initial pain of trying to balance out the water.

[txbizman]

im extremely pleased to find this post. been looking at spas for a while and to get what i want is close to or over 10k. Looking at a twighlight 8.25 today at a show in Austin and seriously considering pulling the trigger on it tomorrow. Seems like a lot of tub and can be had for a LOT less than some of the others. Seems to have PLENTY of pump power, jet designs are as good as and and i really like the neck massager. And to top it off its a beautiful tub. Can you share what you paid for yours? Im thinking i can get one for around 6500.00

[Ja4496]

Are you looking for master to master price or just in general? I paid $5900 for a hot spot Rhythm last month. Out the door with lifter upgrade and tax was $6300. Kind of a Ford to Chevy comparison for a good middle of the road tub. And like everyone has beat to death on this subject I know who my dealer is where my dealer is how they treat customers etc...