2002 Hot Springs Grandee Gc3D1008

[Kallie]

I have started a new thread, so I apologize if I have duplicated what I have said in other threads, but here is the problem:

After turning on the breakers at the sub-panel, with or without jets running, the unit shuts down and the ready light flashes on the main display panel. This happens with and without filters. The breaker doesn't trip, but the only way to restart the spa is to turn the breaker off and back on again. There is a slight hum coming from the circ pump. I dont' know if this is normal, but a small stream of water shoots back into the filter compartment, so I'm not sure if this is from the ozonator or an overflow of the circ pump. We had a technician look at it (when it was wired wrong) but he couldn't figure out why it wouldn't heat. He thought it was wired wrong but my husband kept insisting that there are only supposed to be 3 wires hooked up, so that didn't help the technician (especially since my husband was wrong). Without the heater hooked up, the jets run fine and everything seems to be working (except the heater, since it wasn't wired).

I don't know if you can normally see water coming out of the heater return/drain, but we don't see anything, and as mentioned before, the only movement we can see is in the filter compartment (even when jets aren't running). We have hard water, and based on what was mentioned in another thread, the sizzling in the heater sounds like there is little or no flow.

This is what the technician did:

Took off one end of the pump to see if there was an air lock, none, then checked the opposite end of the heater for an air lock, and again none. He opened both drains, nothing there either. He checked the suction where the grey standpipe is, and there is suction there, so does that mean the pump is working? Also, he checked the voltage of the heater (none because it was wired wrong), and he also took off the heater relay board to see if anything was fried behind it. We also put a plastic bag over the drain but nothing, so my guess is a blockage. I will call him back, to check the suggestions made by PreservedSwine, but wonder if there's something that I can do in the meantime. Note that after he left, I put a garden hose down the grey standpipe in case there was an air lock somewhere else and nothing happened, the spa still shuts off after about 30 seconds.

Thanks.

[Chas]

Wow, you have done a lot of the troubleshooting! Good job. I saw the other thread, and it looks like you have the electrical sorted.

If there is no flow from the floor drain - where water should be returning from the heater - yet the little bleed hole in the filter compartment IS flowing, and the heater is boiling and then tripping the hi-limit (as evidenced by the red light flashing) then you have only one option left: there is a plug in the line between the heater and the return fitting on the base of the tub. This could be nothing more than a heavy build-up of slime, or 'biofilm.' I have only seen this in two or three tubs in three decades of doing this, but they were all running Baqua Spa, or had never put in chlorine.

The line in question is around 14 feet long - it makes a gentle loop around the foot area of the spa to allow ozone more contact time with the water before entering the bather area at the bottom. This tube is this long even if you don't have ozone - they put it in just in case.

I have snaked them out with an electrician's snake - fiberglass, NOT metal. To do so, I take the tube from the outlet of the heater loose at the wall fitting, and cap it or plug it. Some water should start flowing out of the fitting in the wall of the motor compartment (some models have a short length of PVC flex), but if the line is plugged badly, it will not flow very much. In some cases I put a short length of vinyl tube on the fitting so the water comes out where it is easier to work with, other spas it's not bad right where it is. But feed the snake in and slowly work it back and forth, and if you begin to see slime coming out with the water, you have not only found the problem for sure, but you are clearing it. Keep at it until you have nothing but water rushing out, and you should be good to go. If you only get a tiny amount of stuff coming out and the water flow doesn't increase dramatically, you can put a small piece of clot in the end of the snake - sort of like a cleaning pad for a gun barrel - and it will clear more of the film.

HTH

[Kallie]

Thanks for the additional info...we had the technician come back and he determined that although the pump was running, it wasn't running well so he installed a new pump. We started to see movement out of the drain and this time it didn't trip the high limit thermostat. We left for about 2 hours to let it heat up, but when we came back, there was no power, it tripped the breaker in the sub panel. We reset the breaker 3 times and it shut off immediately, then on the 4th reset, it started working again. It's now been back on for about 2 hours and it still seems to be working. I guess the test is to wait until morning to see if it reaches the set temperature and maintains it without tripping the breaker...if it trips again I'll have to figure out what else could be wrong with it!

Thanks again!

[Chas]

That could be a weak breaker - there is no time when the breaker gets more current flow for a longer period of time than at the first start-up from cold. As they age, then tend to get weaker. (Don't we all).

[Kallie]

The breakers, wiring, subpanel, etc. are brand new, just installed about a week ago (wrong the first time with only 3 wiress), electrician came back today, put the right breakers in and the right amount of wires, but it either isn't heating or it isn't heating very well. As soon as power was back to the spa the temperature was 84, 4 hours later it is only 86. There are 2 lights lit on the main control board, a green and a red but they aren't flashing. Also, if we set the temperature below 86, the heater light on the control board turns off and we hear the heater click off. When we turn the temperature up past 86, we hear a click and the red light goes back on. The odd thing is that the heater was working after the new circ pump was put in, it heated the water about 10 degrees in 2 hours, but as I mentioned above, it blew the breaker. I keep reading about resetting it, but I can't find a reset button on it. We have a message into the technician again, but were hoping to figure it out in the meantime. He already took off the heater relay board and it seemed ok, nothing fried on the back of it. I'm not sure if this is important or not, but when the temperature is set to 86 (the current temperature) the ready light on the main panel is green.

I'm wondering if we could still have a blockage as I don't see any bubbles coming out of the drain, although it feels like there is a bit of warm water coming out of the drain. Is there something else I can do to try reset the heater or thermistors, or something?

Thanks again.

[PreservedSwine]

You're going to need a multimeter to test for voltage, as well as check OHM's if you really want to troubleshoot. The only things you can do without a meter, is try pressing the heater reset button (if you still have the original No-Fault 6000) located on one end of the heater, ensure the filters are clean, and make sure it's not in "summer" mode.

If that doesn't do it, something is broken.

You should be gaining at least 5 degrees an hour.

If you'd like to troubleshoot yourself, and are handy with a multi-meter, we'll have it narrowed down in no time, just let us know if that's the route you'd like to go- otherwise- you're just guessing.

For instance- I'd guess your circ pump flow is adequate, since you've gained a few degrees- it adds about 60 watts of heat, enought bump the temp up several degrees/day, depending on ambient temp. But without testing anything, we're just guessing.