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What Model Is Best?


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Fair enough, frankly I'm either way with Master, they build good solid tubs and support them from my personal experience of the 200+ spas dumped in my market.

As for the roadshows, that has nothing to do directly with the factory, it is dealer based, supported and paid for. Check whosis for the domain registration and you will find Master does not own the expo site either. All my dealings with the factories for the few service issues I have had have been a pain in the ass as far as paperwork and being pedantic, but above reproach for support, and part supply...

As for the Balboa boards, first I almost never replace Balboa components with the exception of the odd heater. Second if a board goes on any controller you are almost the same price to replace the system! On a 3 year old spa its the service option I always go with regardless of brand. I have about 10 gecko systems in my warehouse from retrofits because at the same time I upgrade them to the Balboa system. The reiliability of rthe Balboa system is simply miles ahead of anything else, and their patents ensure they will be for a great deal of time to come.

Master spas are wood frames, it is an option for steel frames, only tricked buyers and inexperienced dealers order steel frames on any brand IMHO.

I have 5 paid bloggers and im an obscure retailer... the last manufacturer I was with had 20 and they were behind on it. every manufacturer who has any internet savvy pays bloggers...

Hotsprings was also very good at support and parts, but again a pain in the ass with paperwork, but faults!!! i have more heater relay boards than all other computer boards combined from the last 3 years of service... by far...(there are only about 20 HS units in my market) Invensys who build the system for Watkins, have to date not had great sucess with spa controllers... it is a very very insignificant part of their business and gets little attention. and spa side controllers! customers just give up on them after the first 2 or 3 fail (its the real reason their main controller is mounted in the skirt, they cant get a controller to survive the spa environment)... It is a decent spa, but nothing is really so special about it... except the marketing :-)

And yes people are fools, and yes they are soon parted with their money...

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I'd recommend Sundance first and second, but I work at a pool and spa store that exclusively sells Sundance so obviously I'm going to be a little biased. However, we deal with a bunch of different tubs (repair wise and so-forth), and I recommend Sundance over any other tub for a lot of reasons but ultimately because of their patented jet technology. I've worked on, and been in many tubs and I personally think the hydrotherapy is unmatched. Consider wet testing a Sundance spa and see how you like it. If you don't like it then I'd recommend HotSprings over the others that you listed. Good luck choosing a spa! I know it's pretty exciting.

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  • 1 month later...

I too have been researching, and reading about a hot tub purchase and am also very frustrated about the negative lashing between the brands. I am looking for an affordable, quality product that I wont have to sink alot of time, money or energy costs into to operate. (I want the Toyota or Honda of the brand).. dont want the Kia, and dont need the Mercedes. I live in the NE so, insulation is an important factor in my decision. Since this is my first tub purchase, I am unsure how much I will actually use it. Somewhat concerned that if I make a poor decision, I will use it less too. We previously owned a home with an inground pool and always wished we could turn make it hotter at night.. I love being in the water, so I think I will really enjoy it. Both my husband & I get sore muscles from manual work we do, so I think the therapy will be very inviting to use. We know we don't want a lounger due to the space they take up looking for a 6-8 seater so we can also enjoy with family or friends.

We've looked at HotSprings, Caldera, Artesian, & Beachcomber. Many of the sales people we've spoken with said be warry of the expense of owning a Hotspring from a maintenance standpoint. They change all their parts slightly so you can't replace them with "standard", but have to use their proprietary parts which tend to cost 4x as much. Not sure if that a scare tactic or the truth? Also heard they are now not being manufactured in the USA anymore? Again, not sure if that is true? I really liked the feel of the Artesian, with different seat configuration and molding on each corner.., but I haven't been able to find a lot about them on line or on a forum as far as how happy people are with them? We sat in a used Saratoga Spa and were a bit surprised by how much we "floated" away from the seat... since this was the only full tub we've sat in, I was a little worried about how a tub feels full vs empty. The show-rooms tend to only show them empty.

The last obstacle we are trying to get through is whether it's worth it to by new vs used? There seem to be an ample supply of used tubs, so does it make sense? My fear is buying some junk used and then hating the whole experience.. or worse yet, spending $8K on one new and having the same. Only issue with used ones seem to be they don't have that many jets - how important is that really??? Will that just make me float away more?

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated, I really want this investment to be something I do right and enjoy for 10+ years!

THANKS!

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I too have been researching, and reading about a hot tub purchase and am also very frustrated about the negative lashing between the brands. I am looking for an affordable, quality product that I wont have to sink alot of time, money or energy costs into to operate. (I want the Toyota or Honda of the brand).. dont want the Kia, and dont need the Mercedes. I live in the NE so, insulation is an important factor in my decision. Since this is my first tub purchase, I am unsure how much I will actually use it. Somewhat concerned that if I make a poor decision, I will use it less too. We previously owned a home with an inground pool and always wished we could turn make it hotter at night.. I love being in the water, so I think I will really enjoy it. Both my husband & I get sore muscles from manual work we do, so I think the therapy will be very inviting to use. We know we don't want a lounger due to the space they take up looking for a 6-8 seater so we can also enjoy with family or friends.

We've looked at HotSprings, Caldera, Artesian, & Beachcomber. Many of the sales people we've spoken with said be warry of the expense of owning a Hotspring from a maintenance standpoint. They change all their parts slightly so you can't replace them with "standard", but have to use their proprietary parts which tend to cost 4x as much. Not sure if that a scare tactic or the truth? Also heard they are now not being manufactured in the USA anymore? Again, not sure if that is true? I really liked the feel of the Artesian, with different seat configuration and molding on each corner.., but I haven't been able to find a lot about them on line or on a forum as far as how happy people are with them? We sat in a used Saratoga Spa and were a bit surprised by how much we "floated" away from the seat... since this was the only full tub we've sat in, I was a little worried about how a tub feels full vs empty. The show-rooms tend to only show them empty.

The last obstacle we are trying to get through is whether it's worth it to by new vs used? There seem to be an ample supply of used tubs, so does it make sense? My fear is buying some junk used and then hating the whole experience.. or worse yet, spending $8K on one new and having the same. Only issue with used ones seem to be they don't have that many jets - how important is that really??? Will that just make me float away more?

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated, I really want this investment to be something I do right and enjoy for 10+ years!

THANKS!

First of all, the better the quality, the less you'll have to be repairing/replacing parts. You notice they don’t knock our quality or energy efficiency and have to drum up some other excuse they want you to believe to discount Hot Spring. Like all manufacturers we have some proprietary parts and some standard off the shelf parts but to say we have a lot of proprietary parts that are 4x as much is silly. Sometimes we create unique features to stand out and offer a top notch product rather than just make the same cookie cutter spas you can find anywhere. For instance, we created a moto massage jet that has been a real asset to our spas which we designed/created, its not like we could buy one off the shelf but choose to make our own, there is no such thing elsewhere.

If they’re trying to say we’ve moved everything south of the border they’re mixing us up with someone else. We’ve had our large manufacturing plant in San Diego for many years and also have a state of the art facility built within the last decade just across the border. The long time Hot Spring models have not gone anywhere and are still made in San Diego where they'll stay for years to come. The Limelights and Caldera are made in our newer plant and since its nearby we are able to manage it very well.

In the end get whatever quality made spa makes sense for you but try to make the salesman stick to what’s good about their product rather than trying to use negativity toward others to prop themselves up.

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Currently I don't own a Hot Tub, but I have owned a Hot Springs and I've owned a Sundance. I would deifinitely buy either one of them again when I get another Hot Tub. I sold my Sundance Optima because we were having a roof put over the patio and it took up too much of the space under the roof. I plan to extend the patio and get a much smaller Hot Tub hopefully before next winter.

As far as floating you are in a tub that is too deep for you. That is why you should always wet test any tub you are interested in buying. Siting in one without water is a waste of time. In my Optima I would float in the main seat when I had it filled a little too high. If I kept the water just over the highest jets I was fine.

I'm pretty sure I want my next one to have a lounge type seat, but I have not yet wet tested any of them. I have looked at brand new Hot Springs, Caldera, Sundance (no smaller ones in stock though) and Jacuzzi. I doubt if I will buy brand new though. I will just keep looking until the right one comes up for sale. I almost always buy big ticket items used, but stick with the top of the line brands. Been driving used Volvos since 1985 and now have an 06 BMW 330xi and an 03 4Runner Limited V8. Probably got all three of them for what it would have cost for any one of them if I bought it new.

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Thanks for the advice, I looked at Sundance today and they seemed nice, really need to get back to the showrooms and "wet test" them. I think you are right that sitting in them dry is a waste of time. I probably will hit all the major brands and test them wet, then compare features and prices and just make a decision. Who knows, maybe while I'm waiting, a good used one will come up, as I'd much rather get a huge discount from someone who purchased it new. Any other thoughts out there? I'd still like to hear others chime in. One of the dealers also carried "Nordic" - he did state it was lower quality, but very reliable. What do you think about that brand??

Thanks for your feedback.

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  • 1 month later...

By "Paid Bloggers," do you mean posters here? I surely don't make a dime off my time spent here, and I am not aware of anyone else doing so. In fact it costs. I'm very sure that smart manufacturers have folks who are paid to keep an eye on the web boards, and I have gotten a call or email from the Mother Ship a few times when I have posted an error, or when somebody is upset at something I have said or done. But please - show us a list of 'paid bloggers?'

If you are talking about people who do write actual Blogs, then I would say that any shopper needs to know who owns the site they are viewing. Of course www.HotSpring.com is going to post information telling you why you should own one of their tubs. But at no point do they try to lead you to believe it is some form of third-party opinion, with the obvious exception of the energy tests they have had done, which are third party.

I was a zealot when I first came to these boards - it didn't make sense to me for people to buy anything but the brands I had to offer. I still love the tubs I sell, and consider them to be awesome tubs for people to buy! But as I have matured a bit - *cough cough* - I have come to realize that a good dealer can make even a bad tub workable, and enjoyable. I would never buy a tub at a road show that promises me several brands but then brings tubs and other items which all come from the same maker - to me that is dishonest. Say it's done by dealers and not by Master? Fine. A HotSpring dealer would do that once - exactly once - and they would find themselves looking for another brand to rep.

B)

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We are looking for a hot tub in Pennsylvania.We have looked at the Hot Spring Grandee,Maax Spas 481 and Dynasty Spas Atlantis.We liked all 3 models but the Grandee was approx $3000.00 more expensive than the other 2 models and both of them were just as comfortable as the Grandee. I haven't seen much on this forum regarding the other two brands. Any input anyone has on these 2 would be greatly appreciated. Leaning towards the Maax,unless I hear otherwise.

Thanks,

First time buyer

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Actually,we did "test soaks" of all 3 models(I would not comment on the comfort aspect of the tubs had I not). I did like the "motomassage" jets on the Grandee,however,the Maax spas jets and configuration seemed much more therapeutic to both my wife and myself. We both also liked the jets in the lounge seat that hit on the tops and soles of your feet at the same time and also prevented my wife,in particular,from floating out of the lounge seat.The warranties on all 3 tubs are virtually identical(actually the Maax has a longer structural warranty due to the steel frame) and their respective energy efficiency ratings are similar, so where is the "step up" that you are referring to?

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Energy claims and energy use are two VERY different things. Every spa make claims great energy numbers. Personally I doubt the Maxx will be in the same ballpark on energy use. In the end, when considering quality of build, energy use, trust in warranty fulfillment (most warranties are alike, not all are backed to the same degree) and overall lifespan expected, I think the Hot Springs wins.

Personally I'm not sure I see Maxx as a premium brand but then again I don't claim to be a Maxx expert. In reality you don't hear too much about Maxx on these spa forums but here is a post I remember from a week or so ago which sticks with me because fit and finish and quality of build are key indicators of what you can expect down the line IMO. http://www.whatstheb...ic,15860.0.html.

I'm not trying to say what you should buy, I'm just saying I think there is a reason one is more expensive than the other.

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The warranties on all 3 tubs are virtually identical(actually the Maax has a longer structural warranty due to the steel frame)

And you are convinced a steel frame is better? I have gone throught 3 barbecue grills on the same wodden deck.

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Jacuzzi and Sundance are made by the same company?

yep, and to the best of my knowledge, made in the same factory.

Sundance became part of the Jacuzzi Group in the late '90s (around '98 if memory serves me correctly.)

Jacuzzi just bought bankrupt ThermoSpa in May.

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I am looking to buy a 4 to 6 person hot tub. I live in VA so extreme cold is not an issue. I am not looking at the top of the line tubs and would appreciate any input anyone might have on the MIRA M6000 Lounger tub or the Jacuzzi 200 series lounger (I belive it is the 235 or 245 series.I can get the MIRA delivered and installed with cdover, lift, steps, chemicals, and recirc pump for $4900. the Jacuzzi will be closer to 5900. Any suggestions or other option in the same price range?

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Jacuzzi and Sundance are made by the same company?

yep, and to the best of my knowledge, made in the same factory.

Sundance became part of the Jacuzzi Group in the late '90s (around '98 if memory serves me correctly.)

Jacuzzi just bought bankrupt ThermoSpa in May.

I believe the factory is south of Tijuana, Mexico

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