Devastated New Coast Spa Owner - Bad Tub & Worse Dealer

[Roxyspa]

In Jan/Feb 2011 my spouse & I were trying to decide on a new spa. We first brought home a Hot Springs Vanguard and although we were convinced of its superior quality and liked the Hot Springs product, we had not been able to water test this particular tub. I quickly found that I was horribly uncomfortable in it - it was smaller than what we had wanted and the seats/jets just didn't work for me. We returned the Vanguard and unfortunately the dealer never attempted to put us in anything different. So we went back to "The Place" a dealer of Coast Spas that had been courting us. We bought a Coast Radiance Special at the owners recommendation. We water tested it several times and really loved it. The seating was comfortable, the size was great and the layout and quality of jets was perfect! We left with the owner's promise that she would look after us and offer any support we required should anything ever go wrong. We were in heaven!

Since our heavenly purchase, here is a summary of what our spa experience with Coast and The Place has been reduced to:

- We have used it less than 12 times in 6 months

- We have spent hundreds of $$$ in chemicals, filter and solutions

- We have driven to our Dealer at The Place (35 mins drive from our home) at least 10 times

- We have refilled our tub 4 times in less than 6 months

- We have perfect water chemistry out of our tap and in the tub yet the water is cloudy, scummy and eventually always foams

- The Dealer still refuses to even consider there may be something wrong with the filtration system

- No service person has ever been dispatched to our home to investigate the problem with this tub

- We have now been advised by our Dealer to use different chemicals therefore implying WE are unable to use Leisure Spa properly

- Our Dealer has even suggested some type of industrial sabbotage - a competitor perhaps coming in at night and putting things in our tub!

- Clearly, our Dealer believes we are stupid!

Here is a chronology of events if you care to go through it and give us your input. Keep in mind that we have previously owned 2 other spas (a Vita Spa & the Hot Springs) and NEVER had water issues.

We installed & filled our Radiance Special in June 2011. As of today, January 6, 2012, we have refilled the damned thing 4 times and sat in it less than a dozen times!!!

We used it happily a couple of times after we first filled it. All seemed well. Then, it began to be cloudy and foamed like crazy. We thought perhaps the young housesitter had been in there with some soapy clothing but no matter what we did, we couldn't get the foam out. So on advice of our dear folks at The Place, we emptied the tub, refilled it with nice clean water and thought all would be well. NOT SO!!!

After the second fill, it immediately began to foam once we put in the chlorine - with us not having stepped a toe in there! We went back to our dealer at The Place and were told oh, it's not the spa, it must be the water chemistry. We have the purest well water you've ever come across (tapped in to the Big Indian) and since I'm trained in water well drilling, I'm pretty sure I know of what I speak. My husband is a metalurgist so he's knowledgeable regarding water chemistry, etc as well. They insisted it had to be the calcium levels, then it needed super shocking with the non-chlorine shock, then it needed the spa clear and then the enzymes and on and on this went. We listened to their advice since they claim to be the experts and surely (or so we thought) they wanted to help us out. The more chemicals/solutions we kept adding, the worse the quality of the water got. It became cloudy, still foamed and had so much yellow scum on the top that we couldn't bear it.

All through this, we kept testing the water chemistry and it was perfect. Their genius service man at The Place was sure we weren't testing the water correctly because my husband relies wet chemistry. He's only a metalurgist after all! No, Service Man said, you have to use the strips. As if that would change anything!!!! Tested perfect out of our tap and in the tub even with the strips!

On advice of the now president of The Place, we decided to try living with this water since it seemed such a waste to discard yet another 400+gal of water. When I suggested to both owners at this dealership that perhaps there was something wrong with the filtration system, they would not hear of it. It's not the tub, they said, it's something that is getting in the tub or is maybe in the lines from when someone put some kind of soap in it after we first got it home. They swear they filled this tub at their shop and had no such trouble. The president recommended we buy a new filter which we did. Remember, at this point, the tub was less than 6 months old and we hadn't used it more than a handful of times.

We put in a new filter and it seemed to improved things just a smidge in terms of foaming for about a week.

BE CLEAR, when I talk of foaming I'm talking about over a foot high of foam all over the tub. The dealer has seen photos of this from our tub. When I speak of cloudiness and murkiness, I'm talking green scummy looking water worse than you'd find in a man-made pond with no outlet! You can't see your own hand under the water it is SO murky!

After a disgusting attempt to have guests use our spa over Thanksgiving weekend - we were so embarrassed and utterly devastated that we emptied the bloody tub AGAIN and refilled it for the 4th time.

This time we decided to do it OUR way. We scrubbed out the yellow grunge all around the tub and inside the water outlet. And NO we didn't use soap to clean it. Contrary to the opinion of our Dealer, we are not moronsw.

We added nothing to the water except to shock it with Chlorine once it was filled. The chemistry revealed calcium to be a tad low so we fixed that, made sure the PH and Alkalinity were perfect and everything else was perfect. Within days, it began to look murky and scummy. We spoke with our Dealer again - oh it's not the tub, they assure us, it's the water - so we made several more visits to them with water samples from our tap and from the tub - all tested by them and all tested perfect water chemistry. Why can't it be a filtration problem? Water goes in perfect and after a while becomes cloudy and scummy. How is that not a filtration issue??? Yet, they still won't send a service person out here! If you were a Dealer, would it not be logical for you to assume at this point that it has to be a problem with the tub? Why would you do nothing and hope your customer would go away? Unless you knew all along that there was an issue with this particular tub or model? Why did you have so many of this model still sitting in your warehouse? Why did you offer the best deal on this particular model? Why wouldn't we be suspicious at this point? It's been SIX LONG MONTHS!!!

Throughout all this, we keep taking the filter out and rinsing it off watching the gunge slide off of it.

New Year's weekend, we decided that screw it, we'd go in anyway after 4 wks since we filled it with new water although it was still cloudy and disgusting looking. We opened the lid after 2 days of not looking in it and the water was actually green! I took many photos which we have now decided we will be posting publicly.

We went back to The Place in good faith after the Hot Springs dealer didn't offer us any alternatives to the Vanguard. We believed the owner's promise that they would look after us and we are now so far beyond disappointment in their poor service and lack of integrity or concern for customer satisfaction that all we want to do is sell the damn thing. How, may I ask, can we do that? Should we too be without integrity and sell this spa to an unsuspecting new owner without mentioning the fact that they'll never be able to enjoy it???

At this point, we have not one iota of trust left in ANY of the folks at The Place - least of all, their owners! If they send a service person out here we are 100% certain they will tell us there is nothing wrong with their tub. Of course there isn't. It must be the folks at Ohio Pools & Spa coming out here to sabbotage our enjoyment of this otherwise Perfect Coast Spa. Seriously?!!! What can this owner do other than GET A LAWYER?

I know there are many folks in the industry on this forum. If you have any suggestions, we would gladly hear them.

If you just happen upon this post and are in the market for a tub - stay clear of Coast Spas and steer well clear of The Place in Ohio. You will be heartbroken and disappointed just as we have been! They are marvelous and customer oriented when they want to sell you a product and as long as all is well, but encounter a serious problem and you're on your own!

Anyone want to buy a Coast Radiance Spa for cheap???

[waterbear]

It sounds like you are extremely frustrated. This is understandable given what you have gone through. Perhaps we can help figure out exactly what has been happening but we do need a bit more information.

From what you have said it seems that you are using chlorine as your santizer. Is that correct? If not what sanitizer are you using? Are you using any kind of mineral cartridge? IF so which one?

I have a few more questions. First, exactly what are you testing with (brand and model of test kit) and exactly what tests are you running? Also, are you using OTO, DPD or FAS-DPD for the chlorine tests?

Second, what form of chlorine are you using (dichlor, cal hypo, etc.)

- We have perfect water chemistry out of our tap and in the tub yet the water is cloudy, scummy and eventually always foams

And what are the FC readings when this happens?

All through this, we kept testing the water chemistry and it was perfect.

Third, "perfect" is not a test result. Could you post some numbers?

Fourth, did you decontaminate the tub?

Fifth, you said you are using well water. Have you tested it for iron and copper?

Sixth, what makes you think the filter is not working properly? It sounds more like something is growing in your water and the sanitizer is not able to keep up. (See my fourth question above.)

- We have used it less than 12 times in 6 months

How often do you test the water (be honest here) and how often do you add chlorine?

Does the tub have an ozonator?

Has the dealer tested your water? What was their results?

IF you can provide this info we might get a better "pcture" of what is going on.

[Roxyspa]

It sounds like you are extremely frustrated. This is understandable given what you have gone through. Perhaps we can help figure out exactly what has been happening but we do need a bit more information.

From what you have said it seems that you are using chlorine as your santizer. Is that correct? If not what sanitizer are you using? Are you using any kind of mineral cartridge? IF so which one?

I have a few more questions. First, exactly what are you testing with (brand and model of test kit) and exactly what tests are you running? Also, are you using OTO, DPD or FAS-DPD for the chlorine tests?

Second, what form of chlorine are you using (dichlor, cal hypo, etc.)

- We have perfect water chemistry out of our tap and in the tub yet the water is cloudy, scummy and eventually always foams

And what are the FC readings when this happens?

All through this, we kept testing the water chemistry and it was perfect.

Third, "perfect" is not a test result. Could you post some numbers?

Fourth, did you decontaminate the tub?

Fifth, you said you are using well water. Have you tested it for iron and copper?

Sixth, what makes you think the filter is not working properly? It sounds more like something is growing in your water and the sanitizer is not able to keep up. (See my fourth question above.)

- We have used it less than 12 times in 6 months

How often do you test the water (be honest here) and how often do you add chlorine?

Does the tub have an ozonator?

Has the dealer tested your water? What was their results?

IF you can provide this info we might get a better "picture" of what is going on.

I'd say frustrated is an understatement at this point. You'd think our dealer would have the concern to try and address this.

Let me respond in order of your questions: All our test kits and chemicals/produts are Leisure Time

1. yes we use Chlorine as our sanitizer; under normal circumstances we would add chlorine once per week; we use dichlor; because of the insanity that has been ongoing, we have been adding chlorine ever 3 days at times; we do use Nature2 mineral cartridge; We use a non-chlorine shock on a daily basis (when we use it) and now have been super shocking it with non-chlorine (potassium peroxymonosulfate)per our dealer and Leisure Time's instructions. By super-shocking, I mean 16-20oz/400 gal.

2. I have to check with my husband in terms of what he uses for wet chemistry but in terms of test strips, they are the Leisure Time strips

3. I used the term "perfect" as it was used even by our loving Dealer when they wet tested both tap and problem tub water. You asked how frequently we test the water? HONESTLY??? We are OBSESSIVE about it. Several times a day most of the time! We actually test it everytime we open it and again after we put something into it.

I just checked it now again and it's the same as usual - 0ppm FCI; 325CH; 8pH; 90ppmAlk. It reads the same whether we are having foaming issues or green water or cloudy water! My husband will be taking a water sample into his lab tomorrow to do more extensive testing. As much as he can do there with water - he works with metals so....

4. re: did we decontaminate the tub? The first & second times we had to drain it, we used our dealer's recommended System Flush solution by SeaKlear Spa. Not a clue what's in it since its properties are not identified on bottle.

5. Our well water has been tested by us and by dealer - no readings outside the norm. Spouse will be checking iron & copper at work

6. Our tub has an ozonator

7. What makes me think it's a filtration issue? Something's not working right. We have NEVER had this problem - even when we had the Vanguard for 90 days prior to putting this piece of rubbish in, the water was beautiful and clear. For all the years we had our Vita Spa, there were a couple of times when we were away for 2wks+ and no one looked after the tub - came back to find water beautiful and clear. If something was growing in our water it would have been growing all along not just now that we have it sitting in a Coast Spa. Nothing has changed except the tub it sits in! You tell me???

Let me know what you think?

[Roxyspa]

How do I add photos to these posts?

[Roxyspa]

For the sake of clarification... the reason we've only used our tub 12 times in 6 months is because of the trouble with it. We look at it and try to figure it our almost daily! We used our previous tubs 5 out of 7 days. That's why this is so devastating to us now.

[waterbear]

Let me respond in order of your questions: All our test kits and chemicals/produts are Leisure Time

To the best of my knowledge Leisure Time only sells test strips (which are basically usless for water balancing) while you said you only do wet testing.

1. yes we use Chlorine as our sanitizer; under normal circumstances we would add chlorine once per week; we use dichlor; because of the insanity that has been ongoing, we have been adding chlorine ever 3 days at times; we do use Nature2 mineral cartridge; We use a non-chlorine shock on a daily basis (when we use it) and now have been super shocking it with non-chlorine (potassium peroxymonosulfate)per our dealer and Leisure Time's instructions. By super-shocking, I mean 16-20oz/400 gal.

Actually, you are not using chlorine as your sanitizer, you are using silver/MPS as your primary santizier (it is EPA approved at the hot water temperatures found in spas) and the chlorine is an auxiliary sanitizer used as needed. Also, the type of problems you are reporting is actually rather common with silver/MPS spa sanitation systems. I suspect that the dealer wet testing your spa and water was left in the plumbing and that you never decontaminated it. (In such cases silver/MPS just can't keep up.) That means using an unstabilized chlorine (not dichlor) to bring the FC up to about 50 ppm to sterilize the plumbing and also possibly using an enzyme purge product to remove any orgainc matter from the plumbing.

2. I have to check with my husband in terms of what he uses for wet chemistry but in terms of test strips, they are the Leisure Time strips

IT would be most helpful to know the brand and model of test kit and just what tests are included and what method of chlorine testing is used but I will tell you now if it is anythng less than a Taylor K-2006 FAS-DPD kit you need to upgrade it!

3. I used the term "perfect" as it was used even by our loving Dealer when they wet tested both tap and problem tub water. You asked how frequently we test the water? HONESTLY??? We are OBSESSIVE about it. Several times a day most of the time! We actually test it everytime we open it and again after we put something into it.

I just checked it now again and it's the same as usual - 0ppm FCI; 325CH; 8pH; 90ppmAlk. It reads the same whether we are having foaming issues or green water or cloudy water! My husband will be taking a water sample into his lab tomorrow to do more extensive testing. As much as he can do there with water - he works with metals so....

A few observations, You need to be testing MPS levels with your system since it can have no FC and still be fine but if the MPS is low you are asking for problems. MPS is tested by testing CC, it will test as such.

pH is way too high. THis is because your TA is too high. Your pH rise is caused by outgassing of CO2. Lower the TA to about 60 and you will find that your pH does not rise as fast. Is the CH tested with strips or a drop based kit? Strips cannot test CH, only Total Hardness which is one of the reasons they are useless for water balancing. If you are truly reporting CH then I assume it is the hardness of your fill water and you have not added additional calcium. There is no need to raise the CH above around 150 ppm in a manually sanitized spa but if the fill water is higher then that is fine as long as it is not TOO high.

Have you tested CYA? IF you are using dichor you should be since the higher the CYA the higher you would need to bring the FC to effectively shock the water. MPS will not kill what is growing and turning the water green and foamy. You need high ACTIVE chlorine levels to do so and you need to know the CYA to be able to know how high to bring the FC.

4. re: did we decontaminate the tub? The first & second times we had to drain it, we used our dealer's recommended System Flush solution by SeaKlear Spa. Not a clue what's in it since its properties are not identified on bottle.

Decontamination is done by high FC levels using unstabilized chlorine.

5. Our well water has been tested by us and by dealer - no readings outside the norm. Spouse will be checking iron & copper at work

What testing method? Strips or liquid reagents? Titration, colorimeter or comparator?

6. Our tub has an ozonator

Not sure if you are aware but ozone does destroy chlorine and can increase chlorine demand (and it is destroyed by chlorine). IMHO, it is more useful with bromine since it reactives the bromide bank into bromine santizer.

7. What makes me think it's a filtration issue? Something's not working right. We have NEVER had this problem - even when we had the Vanguard for 90 days prior to putting this piece of rubbish in, the water was beautiful and clear. For all the years we had our Vita Spa, there were a couple of times when we were away for 2wks+ and no one looked after the tub - came back to find water beautiful and clear. If something was growing in our water it would have been growing all along not just now that we have it sitting in a Coast Spa. Nothing has changed except the tub it sits in! You tell me???

And, as I said before, if the tub was water tested by the dealer and not decontaminated (particularly since you are relying on silver/MPS for sanitation) I would not be surprised at the problems you have reported.

Let me know what you think?

If it were my tub I would switch to either 3 step bromine or do straight chlorine (dichlor/bleach method) and ditch the mineral stick. The problems you report are actually rather common with silver/mps systems since most people don't really understand how they work, don't do them correctly, and don't really pay close attention to the "low chlorine recipe" in the instructions that come with the stick AND must be followed VERBATIM!!!!! (FWIW, if you follow the alternate instructions that substitute dichlor for the MPS before and after each soak you are using normal chlorine levels and the 'stick' is doing nothing but draining your wallet. If you ARE following the 'recipe' then you should NOT be shocking with MPS at all but only adding it after each soak and before if the level is low. You should only be shocking with chloirne!!!!!) As you can probably tell, I am not a big fan of silver/MPS systems (but the are better than biguanide based sanitizer systems like SoftSoak and BaquaSpa).

Since you have an ozonator I would lean toward bromine since they work better together, IMHO.

I would also get the appropriate test kit if I did not already have it (Taylor K-2106 for bromine, K-2006 for chlorine).

Hope this helps.

[Even Further]

I've got an older Coast Spa model, and no problems with water at all.

If I was in your shoes I would ditch the test trips, and get a good water test kit.

I would chlorine bleach shock the tub, let it sit for a few hours then drain and decontaminate.

Buy a new filter or two on Amazon. Switch to Bromine, and go from there.

All the info is here on this site.

I use a Color Q Pro 7 water test kit. For sanitizers I use; Spa Choice brand Sodium Bromide Granules for Bromine bank, Bromine tabs for floater, liquid Bleach for shocking.

I buy filters on Amazon, and chems from SpaDepot.com.

I rarely have to Shock my tub, about once a month. My water is always clear. Balance the fresh fill first, then add sanitizer.

The pool/spa supply store in my area is really not much help.

I knew nothing before finding this site, now I've found caring or my spa is easy. (Thanks to Waterbear and Chemgeek)

I copy and paste all the good info I find while searching into an excel sheet, and then make a few notes to myself.

There is also good basic technical section on Spadepot's site.

[PreservedSwine]

EDIT: Sorry- my reply was assuming you had a Hot Springs, which you don't...

Nonethelss- it's a water chemistry issue, not a filtration issue.

[waterbear]

Since we haven't heard anything else from Roxy and she has checked in since my last post I assume her questions have been answered to her satisfaction.

[footie]

First let me say sorry you are having such an awful time sorting your tub, but luckily you have the ear of a great water wizard in the shape of Waterbear because if you follow his advice as I have done you will like me have this whole water chemistry under control in no time at all and never look back.

I've a Coast running with 3step bromine system and water looks great, keeping it that way is child's play and my Coast hasn't missed a beat.

Good luck with what you do but I would seriously listen to WB and make the switch to bromine.

[Roxyspa]

Since we haven't heard anything else from Roxy and she has checked in since my last post I assume her questions have been answered to her satisfaction.

Well, I must apologize to you Waterbear for not responding way back when you gave us advice regarding our tub. It seemed I was locked out of the site. Could not logon to save my life and figured someone had complained about my using dealer names on here. I left it until today when I was looking up how much we might be able to get for our Coast Radiance tub.

I wanted you to know that we followed your advice and have managed to keep our water clear for the most part. We still think the filtration system in this tub is defective. We've never had a tub that had to be monitored on a daily basis and where the water quality was so difficult to manage.

I assure you that if we find a buyer for it, that thing will be gone from our home!

Thanks for your advice and encouragement back in January. We really appreciated it.

Roxy & FBH

[Spanky]

I assure you that if we find a buyer for it, that thing will be gone from our home!

Before you give up on your spa, I'd like to offer a "Suggestion"

It is not uncommon that new tubs can be difficult to keep the water in "Balance". The reason for this is that in a new spa there is a multitude of contaminants left over from the manufacturing process and can even have biofilm ( Many spas sit in a warehouse for several months with a few gallons of contaminated water still inside). This is why we recommend that you "Flush" and "Decontaminate " a new spa prior to use. I know it's hard to get you head around this since it's a common misconception that the spa is "New" it should be pristine clean. The fact is they're NOT!!

Start by using Seaklear Spa System Flush then follow with the "Decontamination"

http://www.poolspafo...showtopic=19115

Yes this is a PIA involving 2 water changes but I strongly believe that it may solve your problem

UPDATE ; Sorry just re-read your posts and realized that you have done this. I'd give it one more try. Let the 'Seaklear' sit in the tub overnight

[oddgriffin]

Hey Roxy.

just wanted to say I know what you mean about having issues with "the place".

We live in New Franklin and purchased our spa from them as well.

we had issues with getting our water chemistry right, and the guy I ended up talking to was downright rude and talked down to me like a child. I was lucky enough to find this forum and followed the Bromine guide that is pinned in this forum section. Not only did it solve my issues, but it offered chemical alternatives that are alot less costly.

I refuse to drive out to Montrose and deal with those ppl when there are plenty of other places in the Akron area to purchase chemicals and accesories.

Also that foam issue you were having, we get that when we pump too much air into the water. i usually don't use much air anymore unless I really need the jets to hit me hard.