Circuit Board Fire!

[jflewis88]

Hello, All -

*** POST MODIFIED TO ADD PICS PER EVEN FURTHER'S SUGGESTION ***

Looking for a little information… We have an Infinity Spa, about 5 years old. Went to get in it a couple days ago, there's no power. Check the breaker, it's tripped. This has never happened. Open up the panel, I can immediately smell that something has burnt. Looks like a small fire started at the power connection point, it looks the worst where the black wire connects. It's melted the plastic at the connection point and blackened the surrounding circuitry.

I realize this thing is a goner and have located a replacement board. However, before I install a replacement, I'm keen to figure out what caused this???? Don't want to put a new $350 board in there only to have a repeat performance.

The tub has worked fine for 5 years. I did replace a pump about 3 months ago, but was very careful to make sure the replacement unit has EXACTLY the same specs as the one it replaced.

I'm at a loss as to what might have happened here. Can anyone give me some insight?

Thanks!!!

James

http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l615/jflewis88/?action=view&current=2011-11-24_09-05-27_305.jpg

http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l615/jflewis88/?action=view&current=2011-11-24_09-06-07_642.jpg

[Even Further]

Someone else on here had a similar problem recently. It was a poor terminal connection that heated up and charred the terminal. Best thing is to post pics so the pros on here can see and comment.

I had a relay burn up on me, which messed up my board. Rather than having the circuit board repaired, or replaced, I bought a brand new Gecko spa pack for $400.

[jflewis88]

Someone else on here had a similar problem recently. It was a poor terminal connection that heated up and charred the terminal. Best thing is to post pics so the pros on here can see and comment.

I had a relay burn up on me, which messed up my board. Rather than having the circuit board repaired, or replaced, I bought a brand new Gecko spa pack for $400.

Thanks, Further. I've added a couple pics per your suggestion. I do hope that it was something as simple as a loose connection. Would bum me out to find that I'd done something so stupid and caused this myself, but certainly better than not knowing (or being able to fix) the problem.

As for the Gecko spa pack, that sounds like a great option, but I must admit that I'm not all that savvy with regard to changes/upgrades in components. I've just figured my best bet would be to replace with exact copy, so as to make installation foolproof.

I would be happy to change up the entire pack, but don't know the first thing about doing so and making sure it works with my spa. Can you point me to a good resource for learning how to do this properly?

Much appreciated and Happy Thanksgiving!!

[Bob Sanders]

I'm at a loss as to what might have happened here. Can anyone give me some insight?

Just a loose/corroded connection is all. People tend not to do these things up tight enough and as a result an excess heat build up due to the added resistance causes the burn. It's always best to check those connections a couple times a year because they can loosen/corrode over time.

[countspacula]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

[Spa_Guru]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Don't even consider this as a solution, you need a #6 wire hi amp connection, not a spade terminal connection, you board is burned up because the person who installed the power leads in the first place did not get them tight enough.

Get a new board, cut off any discolored length of the power lead before reconnecting...... end of story

[jflewis88]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Don't even consider this as a solution, you need a #6 wire hi amp connection, not a spade terminal connection, you board is burned up because the person who installed the power leads in the first place did not get them tight enough.

Get a new board, cut off any discolored length of the power lead before reconnecting...... end of story

Thanks! I have no intention of trying to bypass anything or re-wire anything. I'm comfortable with electricity, but only when going strictly "by the book". A new board, and nice clean tight connections it is!

I appreciate the insight, everyone! Thank you!

[WuhWuzzat]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Wow!!

How about count-HACK-ula?

[Roger]

Thanks! I have no intention of trying to bypass anything or re-wire anything. I'm comfortable with electricity, but only when going strictly "by the book". A new board, and nice clean tight connections it is!

I appreciate the insight, everyone! Thank you!

220V 50 amp has a tendency to hum (vibrate) power down and retighten connections a couple times a year.

[jflewis88]

Thanks! I have no intention of trying to bypass anything or re-wire anything. I'm comfortable with electricity, but only when going strictly "by the book". A new board, and nice clean tight connections it is!

I appreciate the insight, everyone! Thank you!

220V 50 amp has a tendency to hum (vibrate) power down and retighten connections a couple times a year.

Thanks, guru. Will make it a point to do so each time I drain and refill.

[countspacula]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Don't even consider this as a solution, you need a #6 wire hi amp connection, not a spade terminal connection, you board is burned up because the person who installed the power leads in the first place did not get them tight enough.

Get a new board, cut off any discolored length of the power lead before reconnecting...... end of story

[countspacula]

On the contrary, Balboa (on many boards including the SUV and VS series), actually recognizes this situation as an alternative to pack replacement. Of course I did not mean attach a very small wire to the end of the black lead, I meant properly attach the required leads to equal #6, usually two #10 stranded copper, with appropriate spades. Balboa also sells the power block for every board they make, just a matter of de-soldering the old and re-soldering the new. Or, buy a new board every 4 or five years. Take a look at a 3 pump tub board, it supplies 220volts to three pumps (40 amps), from spade connections, with MUCH smaller wire than #6.

Even the better board (Jaccuzi LX, and Sundance) have main power coming into the board, from the breaker, with SPADE connections now, soon all will be this way, because spades, when not removed and put back many times, do not get loose by themselves like a screw does.

[Bob Sanders]

I've seen spade connectors heat up too. They're quite common on electric furnaces and they are not infallible. At least with screw connector you can simply tighten them again. A space connector on the other hand has to get cut off and replaced when they get old.

[countspacula]

I've seen spade connectors heat up too. They're quite common on electric furnaces and they are not infallible. At least with screw connector you can simply tighten them again. A space connector on the other hand has to get cut off and replaced when they get old.

[countspacula]

true, but....... how many have been encountered on a spa circuit board? this forum has not one complaint or picture of burned up spade connections on a board. The connectors don't heat up, the relays usually do.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

true, but....... how many have been encountered on a spa circuit board? this forum has not one complaint or picture of burned up spade connections on a board. The connectors don't heat up, the relays usually do.

I've encountered tons of burnt spade connections. I'll start taking pics if you want.

[Bob Sanders]

The connectors don't heat up, the relays usually do.

What happens with relays is a different issue. The contacts most often melt over time because of the arching involved. They wear in much the same way a spark plug does. As for spade connectors.... personally speaking I've always regarded them to be a little 'iffy' in high amp situations. They rely on sort of a friction fit and there is no way to tighten them past their particular level of friction. Granted that's just my opinion.... which is greatly outweighed by the level of use that they see. Common in stoves, hot tubs, furnaces... etc.

[waterbear]

The connectors don't heat up, the relays usually do.

What happens with relays is a different issue. The contacts most often melt over time because of the arching involved. They wear in much the same way a spark plug does. As for spade connectors.... personally speaking I've always regarded them to be a little 'iffy' in high amp situations. They rely on sort of a friction fit and there is no way to tighten them past their particular level of friction. Granted that's just my opinion.... which is greatly outweighed by the level of use that they see. Common in stoves, hot tubs, furnaces... etc.

You don't seem to understand that it is not my knowledge and experience that is being talked about. I've already admitted SEVERAL TIMES NOW that I have very little experience when it comes to discussing things directly related to spas.

thought that quote from a different thread might be enlightening.

[Spa_Guru]

Anyone remember Thomas or Hollibaugh packs? They used 5.5 kw elements and spade terminals, the dang things burned up left and right.

I made a fortune off those things.

[PreservedSwine]

I wouldn't say "Don't even consider a spade connection"

Sure- it may overheat as well- but it only cost you about 25 cents. And if does overheat...you end up buying a new board anyway- it costs you virtually nothing to try. And it may buy you several years- during which- the spa may develop even more expensive issues to repair, and you might end up moving on anyway, saving yourself hundreds of dollars. Nothing lasts forever- everything is in a constant state of decay.

Some people may not have 200-500 bucks for a new board, and would rather spend the 25 cents to squeeze out a few more years.

I think that qualifies as a considerable option.

[PreservedSwine]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Wow!!

How about count-HACK-ula?

How about- not a bad idea if you don't feel like pony-ing up hundreds of dollars. If bypassing a damaged terminal block eventually doesn't work and damages the board (you know, the same board you're replacing anyway), you've spent about 5 minutes and 25 cents in the process.

I give this option to my customers, and tell them it may last several hours, days, or years, and leave the decision up to them. (although, in this case, I would stress the amp draw is particularly high, and this solution is likely temporary)

Their choice is many times driven by their financial situation. For those customers who don't have the cash, and aren't going to buy a new circuit board, this "hack" can add years of enjoyment to something that would otherwise be thrown away.

Terminal blocks can also be faulty, even when the lines coming into the terminal block have been secured properly. And since they cannot be field repaired, bypassing the weak link for a more direct connection isn't a hack, it's prudent. Now, granted, this particular line that's damaged on this particular unit draws more amperage than a spade connection is likely to handle long term, but if it's tight, and remains tight, and remains fastened securely, it will last years.

On quite a few 110v only boards, the terminal block is a weak link as well, and bypassing an overheated connection (much lower amp draw than this unit) is a permanent solution.

Just because you're changing the status quo of hooking up a PCB, doesn't make it weaker. In some cases, you're making it more reliable by removing unnecessary and duplicate connections.

[countspacula]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Wow!!

How about count-HACK-ula?

How about- not a bad idea if you don't feel like pony-ing up hundreds of dollars. If bypassing a damaged terminal block eventually doesn't work and damages the board (you know, the same board you're replacing anyway), you've spent about 5 minutes and 25 cents in the process.

I give this option to my customers, and tell them it may last several hours, days, or years, and leave the decision up to them. (although, in this case, I would stress the amp draw is particularly high, and this solution is likely temporary)

Their choice is many times driven by their financial situation. For those customers who don't have the cash, and aren't going to buy a new circuit board, this "hack" can add years of enjoyment to something that would otherwise be thrown away.

Terminal blocks can also be faulty, even when the lines coming into the terminal block have been secured properly. And since they cannot be field repaired, bypassing the weak link for a more direct connection isn't a hack, it's prudent. Now, granted, this particular line that's damaged on this particular unit draws more amperage than a spade connection is likely to handle long term, but if it's tight, and remains tight, and remains fastened securely, it will last years.

On quite a few 110v only boards, the terminal block is a weak link as well, and bypassing an overheated connection (much lower amp draw than this unit) is a permanent solution.

Just because you're changing the status quo of hooking up a PCB, doesn't make it weaker. In some cases, you're making it more reliable by removing unnecessary and duplicate connections.

as i said before, Balboa recognizes this type of repair as acceptable on a non warranty board. Same goes with a new board, no guarantees it will work an hour or 200 years.

[countspacula]

Board replacement isn't necessary! If its the black connection, then locate the tabs that have "black AC" written around them. Pull the black wire out of its burned block, attach a "pig tail to this wire and spade connector on the end of the tail (s) and plug them into black AC tabs and your off and running again.

Wow!!

How about count-HACK-ula?

How about- not a bad idea if you don't feel like pony-ing up hundreds of dollars. If bypassing a damaged terminal block eventually doesn't work and damages the board (you know, the same board you're replacing anyway), you've spent about 5 minutes and 25 cents in the process.

I give this option to my customers, and tell them it may last several hours, days, or years, and leave the decision up to them. (although, in this case, I would stress the amp draw is particularly high, and this solution is likely temporary)

Their choice is many times driven by their financial situation. For those customers who don't have the cash, and aren't going to buy a new circuit board, this "hack" can add years of enjoyment to something that would otherwise be thrown away.

Terminal blocks can also be faulty, even when the lines coming into the terminal block have been secured properly. And since they cannot be field repaired, bypassing the weak link for a more direct connection isn't a hack, it's prudent. Now, granted, this particular line that's damaged on this particular unit draws more amperage than a spade connection is likely to handle long term, but if it's tight, and remains tight, and remains fastened securely, it will last years.

On quite a few 110v only boards, the terminal block is a weak link as well, and bypassing an overheated connection (much lower amp draw than this unit) is a permanent solution.

Just because you're changing the status quo of hooking up a PCB, doesn't make it weaker. In some cases, you're making it more reliable by removing unnecessary and duplicate connections.

as i said before, Balboa recognizes this type of repair as acceptable on a non warranty board. Same goes with a new board, no guarantees it will work an hour or 200 years.

I understand, it's easier and more expensive to say "yep you gotta have a new board" but this day and time you need to be looking for reasonable alternatives to cheapen the cost, and keep your customer.

[Op999]

I, too, managed to fry out my terminal block on my Balboa M7. I was always worried that the odd angle to connect the wires (especially the bottom 2) would one day lead to a disconnection.

That's exactly what happened yesterday. It look like the bottom connector is burnt (the other 2 are ok). Don't see any burnt fuses or any other indication of other troubles, but before getting another board, I was hoping to remove the current block. How do I do that if it's soldered in?

I can find a replacement for $10. Not quite ready to spend $$ on a new board if that's all it is.

[Spanky]

I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate here and pass some food for thought.

No I’m not a Spa Technician nor am I an Electrician but I am a P. Eng.

When dealing with electrical devices (in Canada) any modifications or repairs not factory authorized, could void the CSA certification of the device. I can’t say for certain, but would presume UL would take the same position in the U.S.

What this means is that in the event of a problem, such as a fire, and the “repair” is discovered, your insurance company can, and most likely will, REFUSE to pay.

Think about this for a minute and decide if it’s worth not paying for a new board or qualified technician.