highxms Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I have a 2007 Hot Springs Prodigy spa that I purchased used. It work perfectly when we went to purchase it. When we got it home and all hooked up it has a hard time starting up. When you push the jets button it try's to come on but it makes like a surging sound (on and off). It does this sometimes for two or three times and sometimes longer before it will start and run fine. I had this plugged into an undedicated line and thought that might be the problem so I wired it to a dedicated line and that made no difference at all. Any Help would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I'm assuming this is a 110v spa, and the electrical run is probably not adequate. Did you run a dedicated 20 amp line using at least 12 gauge wire? The pump consumes a large amount of current (around 35 amps) on start up. If the wire between the breaker and the outlet is too small, say your average household size of 14 guage, it's too small to handle the load of starting the pump. The voltage drops so much, that the pump relay opens, turn the pump off, then the voltage shoots back up, the relay colses, the pump comes back on, repeats, and this happens in about 1/4 of a second. You can run a very quick and simple test to see if it's an issue with the electrical run, or possibly the GFCI, essentially ruling out anything wrong with the spa. Test the voltage at the IQ2020 (the spa control box) where the hot and neutral come into the box, with the heat turned all the way down. Then, turn the heat up, until the heater comes on, and test the voltage again. Normally, you'll have a 1-3% volt drop. If the run is inadequate, you'll get a drop over 5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelbuddy Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm experiencing the same problem with my 2007 Hot Springs Prodigy. It has a dedicated 20amp circuit. 12gauge wire was used. Some times I luck out and it just comes on. But it seems to be getting worse and doesn't want to stay running. The pump keeps on trying to start but keeps on coming on and off and on and off. The lights in the house dim due to the problem. I wan't sure if is a pressure switch or something. Whatever happen to the persons tub in this thread? I was trying to start a new thread on this issue but I wasn't able to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm experiencing the same problem with my 2007 Hot Springs Prodigy. It has a dedicated 20amp circuit. 12gauge wire was used. Some times I luck out and it just comes on. But it seems to be getting worse and doesn't want to stay running. The pump keeps on trying to start but keeps on coming on and off and on and off. The lights in the house dim due to the problem. I wan't sure if is a pressure switch or something. Whatever happen to the persons tub in this thread? I was trying to start a new thread on this issue but I wasn't able to figure it out. The fact the breaker isn't tripping, the pump turns, and other lights dim in the house, strongly points to an issue with your wiring. A simple way to determine if it's an inadequate electrical run line- test voltage at the main terminal block with the heater and pump turned off. Test voltage- then energize the heater only (simply by turning up the heater)- Test voltage again at the terminal block. You should only lose up to 2%. If you're dropping 5 or more volts, there's an issue with the electrical run... either the breaker, damaged wire, or the length of the run is just too long for 12 guage, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 How long is the run? When I ran the 20 amp line for our old Jetsetter, I had to go up to 10 gauge because the run was rather long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 HJames has it!! Wire size is only half the equation - length of run is very important. I have had many folks with this same problem, and when I tell them they simply do not have enough power, they begin telling me all sorts of useless information. Like: how long the electrician/brother-in-law was in the trades, or how many degrees the engineer/handyman/neighbor who wired it has, or how many spas they have had before, or the biggy: how long the tub ran before it started having these problems... In other words, check the voltage AT THE BLOCK inside the spa. As has been stated above, look for a drop of no more than 3% - 2% would be perfect. If you have a real fast digital meter, you can also check the voltage as you try to start the motor. It will drop a bit even if wired perfectly, but if you see it go below 100 you have found the problem! Solution? Find a shorter route from the breaker to the outlet, or go to the next larger sized wire. In fact, if the voltage drops to 80 or 90 when you trigger the motor, you might want to consider going up two sizes in the wire. I have folks who live on the beach, sometimes they will get corrosion on wire junctions, and that can cause the problem as well. In that case, pull a new wire all the way home - and you might as well go up a size at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 HJames has it!! Wire size is only half the equation - length of run is very important. If you're dropping 5 or more volts, there's an issue with the electrical run... either the breaker, damaged wire, or the length of the run is just too long for 12 guage, etc... Where's the love! I have had many folks with this same problem, and when I tell them they simply do not have enough power, they begin telling me all sorts of useless information. Like: how long the electrician/brother-in-law was in the trades, or how many degrees the engineer/handyman/neighbor who wired it has, or how many spas they have had before, or the biggy: how long the tub ran before it started having these problems...Some things are just too predictable, aren't they... Do you feel kind of like a jerk when each time you mention the solution- a customers presents another factoid on why this cannot be? So you're left with the same response to every single factoid? And then do you mention how you've had the exact same conversation every time this problem occurs, and it always ends the same? Then they look at you like you're a cocky SOB and don't believe you, but go through the motions just to prove you wrong, then when it works, realize you're not such a bad guy after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 My electrician told me I could get away with using 8 if I wanted, since my tub only requires a 50 amp breaker, but I did 6 just in case, it made a substantial difference in price but not how much it would cost, seeing as it's a 150ft run. But it's better than paying for it to be run a second time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 HJames has it!! Wire size is only half the equation - length of run is very important. If you're dropping 5 or more volts, there's an issue with the electrical run... either the breaker, damaged wire, or the length of the run is just too long for 12 guage, etc... Where's the love! I have had many folks with this same problem, and when I tell them they simply do not have enough power, they begin telling me all sorts of useless information. Like: how long the electrician/brother-in-law was in the trades, or how many degrees the engineer/handyman/neighbor who wired it has, or how many spas they have had before, or the biggy: how long the tub ran before it started having these problems...Some things are just too predictable, aren't they... Do you feel kind of like a jerk when each time you mention the solution- a customers presents another factoid on why this cannot be? So you're left with the same response to every single factoid? And then do you mention how you've had the exact same conversation every time this problem occurs, and it always ends the same? Then they look at you like you're a cocky SOB and don't believe you, but go through the motions just to prove you wrong, then when it works, realize you're not such a bad guy after all? It's always bad when you have to tell someone that something they paid a lot of money for is broken/won't work. You always have to pull the "Don't shoot the messenger" line out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 All too true, ALL too true. One of my favorite electricians gave me a very nice 110' power cord with a box and 20A outlet on the end. I had just had the same experience we are discussing here - and I took out a roll of Romex (jacketed cable), ran a direct line from the breaker to the spa - and of course, it worked. The customer begged me to leave it there over the weekend, and who could refuse? They had paid good money, and there was their new toy just sitting, waiting for the electrician to come take unexpected money out of pocket - I figured they deserved a nice soak! But when the electrician saw my "very temporary" hack job on Monday morning, he presented me with the tools to do a far nicer job. he even made me a pigtail for the end so I can either plug into a better outlet, or simply hardwire into a breaker. I have used that cord to solve this issue many many times since then. To the OP - I know your pain, it's never fun to hear that you have more money to spend. But while you're at it, consider going to 220. If you have to run conduit and start from your main panel anyway, you may find it's not much more to spend. The big difference will be the cost of a sub panel, which you will need, but you get faster heating, and you can run the heat/jets at the same time. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 The sub panel cost's about $60. If it is a 2007 Prodigy, you need a 50 amp box. You can pick them up at Home Depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Not true, sorry. I get almost as much grief with THIS as with insufficient 110... The Prodigy is a HotSpring, and they get nothing but the best. You need a sub panel and two GFCI breakers. One is a 30Amp Two Pole breaker, the other is a 20Amp single pole breaker. The tub, if converted to 220, runs one circuit for the heater, and another circuit for everything else in the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 A 2007? Right from the manual- 115 volt, 20 amp Dedicated GFCI protected circuit or 230 volt, 50 amp Single phase GFCI protected circuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjames710 Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I'm wrong. I thought they had switched them over to normal wiring. Can't you just pick up an empty box with and buy a 20 and 30 amp breaker? That'd be cheaper than HotSprings panel. Only thing that pissed me off about HotSprings, they make great spas, but they have a lot of proprietary parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelbuddy Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thank you! This is a very big help. I would say my run is about 90' which is pretty long. I think I will switch out the wire. One other question with the Tub having a GFCI plug, does it also need a 20amp GFCI breaker at the panel? I have a 220 line that used to be used for a pool filter that is no longer being used. I should be able to use this. I will check to see about converting the Prodigy 110 tub to a 220. If all I need to do is purchase a GFCI sub panel and run new wires from the new panel to the tub, it may be the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Thank you! This is a very big help. I would say my run is about 90' which is pretty long. I think I will switch out the wire. One other question with the Tub having a GFCI plug, does it also need a 20amp GFCI breaker at the panel? I have a 220 line that used to be used for a pool filter that is no longer being used. I should be able to use this. I will check to see about converting the Prodigy 110 tub to a 220. If all I need to do is purchase a GFCI sub panel and run new wires from the new panel to the tub, it may be the best solution. Pool filter wiring? Maybe pool heater? Just check the wire size- it might be exactly what you need to get the 120v line up to snuff. But I don't think you could use it to "convert" to 220v. Unless it's a 4-wire run, at least 8 guage (maybe even 6 with a run ~100 feet, check with a licensed electrician) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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